EPTgl hf in the future
GOMTV Announcement regarding NaNiWa - Page 71
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sGSuperSlinkY
United States72 Posts
gl hf in the future | ||
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xza
Singapore1600 Posts
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KimJongIlJr
Korea (North)61 Posts
On December 15 2011 12:54 J.E.G. wrote: The golf analogy is bad because they are still competing for cash down even if they are very far out of first place. Most of the guys at the bottom aren't making dick for money don't go in with hopes of winning the thing, only to get crushed. EDIT: Misread your post, however, keep in mind Naniwa asked permission to forfeit and was refused this request. I'm sure if this golfer had requested, the tournament organizers would have obliged him. Naniwa himself said on Live on Three he never asked for a forfeit. | ||
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Shortynut
Australia78 Posts
On December 15 2011 12:44 teamsolid wrote: Was there any proof of this ever happening? Huh? huh? Cuz I haven't seen any yet. Screenshots would be nice. Proof is hard to come by unless there's a copied & pasted version on another site BEFORE the changes, but yet i actually read the first article and it mentioned the comments about "money hunter" and "unprofessional". They were retracted several hours afterwards when the extreme amount of backlash became too overwhelming. If GOM had admittedly changed their statement and shown themselves to back down, they would've been backed into a corner and forced to change their decision. There is also the fact that on the Live stream during the Ro.6 on Wednesday (i will try to be as accurate as possible) Tastosis (Tasteless specifically) announced that "GSL have decided that Naniwa's Code S seed has been revoked for the start of GSL 2012 and he will no longer be allowed to compete in February". That isn't word for word because I honestly didn't expect such a massive shitstorm from a divided community and therefore did not even try to remember it, but you MIGHT be able to find it on some tube sight or even in the VODS from Wednesday night. I think their statement will validate GOM's initial response. | ||
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rd
United States2586 Posts
On December 15 2011 12:55 Doodsmack wrote: lol @ the drama queens trying to keep this story going by slinging mud at Gom. It's like you're in denial that the official announcements made your earlier drama look retarded, and now you're trying to legitimize that drama by fishing for new "issues." People are using the words corruption, liar, etc all based on something they heard which is that Gom changed its website. Let's see if we can think of anything else we recently heard that turned out not to be true. Oh, that's right - Mr. Chae's supposed quote ending with "money hunting amateur." If you really are calling GOM corrupt and dishonest given the information available to you, you're not smart. There, I said it. Someone needed to. Wasnt the drama started by GOM? Ironic... | ||
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Insomni7
667 Posts
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azathrael
2 Posts
1. He disrespected NesTea. People arguing that a player should be able to do whatever he wants are just immature. Any professional in any field should know that his actions involve more than just himself. 2. He disrespected professional SC2 gaming. What NaNiWa did is no better than Rooney or Messi just sitting down in the middle of the soccer field because they were losing 0-10 and only had 5 minutes left. His attitude reflects not just the foreigners, but the entire attitude of all the professional SC2 gamers. If someone that didn't care about professional SC2 gaming decided to give it a try and the first match he saw was what NaNiWa did, I doubt the person would think much of professional SC2 after that. 3. He disrespected his fans. Regardless of whether people paid for him to play or paid to watch him play, if he's a professional he should be at his best behavior at all times. Throwing away a game for a pro SC2 player is no different than a singer holding a concert and not singing, or a DJ that shows up to a club and refuses to mix. The consequences of such actions are paid most by the fans. What did the fans do but support him to deserve such disrespect? 4. There must be a precedence. If there's no specific rule that governs such behavior then a precedence must be set. Allowing this kind of behavior to go unpunished will have far more severe consequences than overpunishing NaNiWa this one time. Whether GOM's actions this time under or overpunished NaNiWa will not be known till the incident's past and people have had time to calm down. But at the very least, there won't be another incident like this happening from another player without them absolutely knowing that there will be consequences following. | ||
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Share_The_Land
Canada152 Posts
On December 15 2011 12:51 J.E.G. wrote: No, what I am saying is that a part of the enormous salaries that professional athletes gets paid is EXPRESSLY written out to make them act professionally in the eyes of the media. Unless that has been written into any contracts Naniwa has entered with GOM, acting unprofessional should not be punishable by the tournament. I'm sure something similar exists in his contract with Quantic, hence his apology, which seems to be authentic and transparent. Ok I see where you are going there and you do bring up a point. I however would have to say that this is not the ONLY reason athletes act professionally. Aside from it perhaps being in an athletes contract they do still have their own judgement to rely on in unsavoury situations, and they also have the fans to look to and what possible reaction may come from it. Although I haven't stated it before, I will state that I believe the consequence of his actions to be frustrating, but in no way as bad as people make it out to be. Players get removed from games for bad conduct all the time, I am not here to say that one game is the same as an entire GSL season, or to trivialize the importance of a GSL season, but it is only ONE GSL season! He still gets Code A chance, he still can advance to Code S for later seasons, and is not kicked out of the GSL. This really isn't that bad so regardless of whether people think GOM are overreacting or not I think they just need to chill out on the importance of one season. It also seems like a lot of people think that the only reason Naniwa has done so well this year is purely for a Code S spot. I guarantee you all Naniwa himself would remind you that he wants to WIN LOTS! He obviously cared about those individual tournament results so to those who think so, please stop telling yourself that the only reason he worked so hard this year was for a Code S spot. The Code S spot was actually more of a BONUS if you will. And that is all I shall say on this issue for good. | ||
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jungsu
United States279 Posts
Make players sign some ethics code for future games and let him play. I'd rather players throw a meaningless game than fake trying. Make every game worth it. | ||
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Sawofhackness
Afghanistan183 Posts
Why are people still attacking this decision? Naniwa has accepted it and apologised. Basically the player who created this storm in a teacup has admitted he shouldn't have acted like that and has accepted the GOM/GSL decision. | ||
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diophan
United States1018 Posts
On December 15 2011 13:03 Shortynut wrote: Proof is hard to come by unless there's a copied & pasted version on another site BEFORE the changes, but yet i actually read the first article and it mentioned the comments about "money hunter" and "unprofessional". They were retracted several hours afterwards when the extreme amount of backlash became too overwhelming. If GOM had admittedly changed their statement and shown themselves to back down, they would've been backed into a corner and forced to change their decision. There is also the fact that on the Live stream during the Ro.6 on Wednesday (i will try to be as accurate as possible) Tastosis (Tasteless specifically) announced that "GSL have decided that Naniwa's Code S seed has been revoked for the start of GSL 2012 and he will no longer be allowed to compete in February". That isn't word for word because I honestly didn't expect such a massive shitstorm from a divided community and therefore did not even try to remember it, but you MIGHT be able to find it on some tube sight or even in the VODS from Wednesday night. I think their statement will validate GOM's initial response. No, they weren't retracted, it was mistranslated. The translator himself apologized. | ||
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Heff87
United States106 Posts
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Vorenius
Denmark1979 Posts
On December 15 2011 13:05 azathrael wrote: Why NaNiWa deserved to be punished: 1. He disrespected NesTea. People arguing that a player should be able to do whatever he wants are just immature. Any professional in any field should know that his actions involve more than just himself. 2. He disrespected professional SC2 gaming. What NaNiWa did is no better than Rooney or Messi just sitting down in the middle of the soccer field because they were losing 0-10 and only had 5 minutes left. His attitude reflects not just the foreigners, but the entire attitude of all the professional SC2 gamers. If someone that didn't care about professional SC2 gaming decided to give it a try and the first match he saw was what NaNiWa did, I doubt the person would think much of professional SC2 after that. 3. He disrespected his fans. Regardless of whether people paid for him to play or paid to watch him play, if he's a professional he should be at his best behavior at all times. Throwing away a game for a pro SC2 player is no different than a singer holding a concert and not singing, or a DJ that shows up to a club and refuses to mix. The consequences of such actions are paid most by the fans. What did the fans do but support him to deserve such disrespect? 4. There must be a precedence. If there's no specific rule that governs such behavior then a precedence must be set. Allowing this kind of behavior to go unpunished will have far more severe consequences than overpunishing NaNiWa this one time. Whether GOM's actions this time under or overpunished NaNiWa will not be known till the incident's past and people have had time to calm down. But at the very least, there won't be another incident like this happening from another player without them absolutely knowing that there will be consequences following. According to GOM he's not being punished. :/ They said that specifically in this announcement | ||
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teamsolid
Canada3668 Posts
On December 15 2011 13:03 Shortynut wrote: Proof is hard to come by unless there's a copied & pasted version on another site BEFORE the changes, but yet i actually read the first article and it mentioned the comments about "money hunter" and "unprofessional". They were retracted several hours afterwards when the extreme amount of backlash became too overwhelming. If GOM had admittedly changed their statement and shown themselves to back down, they would've been backed into a corner and forced to change their decision. There is also the fact that on the Live stream during the Ro.6 on Wednesday (i will try to be as accurate as possible) Tastosis (Tasteless specifically) announced that "GSL have decided that Naniwa's Code S seed has been revoked for the start of GSL 2012 and he will no longer be allowed to compete in February". That isn't word for word because I honestly didn't expect such a massive shitstorm from a divided community and therefore did not even try to remember it, but you MIGHT be able to find it on some tube sight or even in the VODS from Wednesday night. I think their statement will validate GOM's initial response. All I know is that there was some random poster who "claimed" to have noticed the changes. If so, why the hell didn't he take any screenshots? There's a ton of bullshit being thrown around all over the place. I see no reason to take that guy's word more seriously than anyone else's. Just like how that claim that Naniwa asked GOM for the match to be forfeited turned out to be completely fabricated. Also, same with the mistranslation that caused another mini-shitstorm which again was based off of nothing. | ||
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EchoZ
Japan5041 Posts
On December 15 2011 13:03 xza wrote: in that case why didnt zenio get a warning or ban after he gestured that handslap on idra? That was just a friendly banter, like idra fingering MC etc. It was all a joke and not taken seriously. Besides, Zenio did get a lot of smack talk by the korean netizens too | ||
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iky43210
United States2099 Posts
On December 15 2011 13:07 jungsu wrote: He didn't break any rules. If you go by what's written GOM didn't do what they said they would. Make players sign some ethics code for future games and let him play. I'd rather players throw a meaningless game than fake trying. Make every game worth it. people get banned for acting unprofessionally all the time in the athletic world, even though there's no explicit rules about them. It basically came down to whether you believe Esport, or starcraft specifically, should be striving to become a real sport or just another video game with competitive players | ||
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The_Piper42
United States426 Posts
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DYEAlabaster
Canada1009 Posts
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z0nk
27 Posts
On December 15 2011 11:30 _Depression wrote: Major League Baseball and similar organizations would like to say hi, and that they disagree with you. The end of the season for the MLB is a time when as many of 22 teams are playing with no chance of winning, or even affecting their final placement of the season. Teams like the Astros, Twins, Mariners and Orioles last year had more than a month's worth of games to play where absolutely nothing they did would mean anything (unless, of course, you count the Orioles playing the part of trollface to the Red Sox). But even though these teams were statistically eliminated from any shot of a playoff spot, they kept playing. Why? Because that's their job. Because if you don't show up and put in everything you've got, you're going to get called out on it. Sure it is great, if you try as hard as you can even if there is nothing to gain. Nobody has challenged the appreciation of such a noble gesture. However, you miss my point. You say they get called out. And that is also true. They get called out e.g. by the fans, e.g. by the sponsors. And sure, if you refuse to play a scheduled game, you get banned from the league. However, if you just perform very poorly or show no good results, there won't be additional punishment besides your future ladder placement and results (unless there is the suspicion of match-fixing). As you may recall, Naniwa did show up. He performed poorly. Therefore he ended up winning zero games and therefore making last place in the tournament. But that does not justify an additional penalty! (remember: GomTV did not even slightly accuse him of match fixing). However, I still believe (and correct me if I'm wrong) that it is still up to the team or athletes to decide whether they want to perform good or bad, whether they want to play their A-Game or go easy on it or even withdraw. If Usain Bolt decides to run in zik-zak lines on the 100 m parcour, do you think he would get banned for the next olympic games? Why is GomTV even offended? Have a clear look on the facts: - GomTV needs to determine the winner of this match, even if there is nothing on the line. - The winner is the guy who stays in the game. - The loser is the guy who gg's out. -> If you just do not want or can't perform your A-Game nobody can force you to. Why not just pro-forma join the game, do something weird and gg out? The match result is determined. No harm done to the opponent. Again I believe it is up to the athlete or team, whether they deliberately choose to take last place or not. As far as I can see the whole thing spiraled, because GomTV from its subjective point of view takes this move as personal offence. I wonder why is that they are so easily offended instead of keeping it cool? Are they so self-centered? The greatest league in the world? Who dares to mess with us? Let's just shoot him in the back without any real reason to back it off? Then fool the audience and make yourself look good by making up stuff? Naniwa said himself, he did not think about the implications this would cause. His mind was broken. He just wanted to stop playing for a while. Think about his bad performance. Get a clear head. Maybe get some rest instead of playing another meaningless match. What is wrong in giving your opponent the win when nothing is at stake (remember: there is no suspicion of match fixing). Yes, it is bad for the audience to not get to see another game for pride. Yes it is bad for GomTV, who were counting on the hype of the match. And yes it goes against the noble believe that you always have to go 100% no matter how desperate the situation is. However, still no reason to take it personally or get offended. You might now argument that Naniwa clearly started the bitching and wanted to criticize the tournament. But even if you're right, where would we end, if any soccer, baseball, basketball team critizing the league they are playing would immediately get expelled without warning. There is a reason why stuff like this is usually duked out on the boulevard press without actual repressions. Ask yourself from where the whole thing started snowballing and who acted huffy in the first place. GomTV had the chance to deal with the situation calmly, objectively and professional. Instead they chose sanctions as a means of revenge. And yes, it definitely is revenge if you interpret your tournament rules however it suits your plans. | ||
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hunts
United States2113 Posts
On December 15 2011 13:15 DYEAlabaster wrote: I still feel that Idra and Sen are nowhere near the level of tournament achievement that Naniwa is. But I guess there are no more deserving foreigners after Nani. This is a bit of a harsh slap on the wrists though. It's just my opinion, but I still think they should let him play. Are you sure? Nani is I believe 1-11 in GSL code A? Idra was in code S and was still in code S when he left korea. Sen took 3rd at blizzcon and beat naniwa to get there, sen also took 3rd at NASL #2 and I believe 3rd at NASL #1? | ||
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