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they're not arbitrarily *making up* rules - they're arbitrarily *interpreting* rules that are conveniently vague
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On December 15 2011 04:47 Defacer wrote:
No worse than MLG's arbitrary rules about Korean invites.
They literally just sit around and discuss what Koreans would be cool to have in a tournament. That's how players like Boxer, Nada and MMA where invited. And everyone, particularly the audience, benefitted from it.
GSL and MLG have it right. At the end of the day, they are a business that caters to fans, not players -- their viewership and sponsors play the bills. Whatever is going to produce the most entertaining product is the highest priority.
Look at an organization like NASL -- which, on paper, is 'an ideal' and fair tournament structure that rewards the most consistent players. The viewing experience it produces is pretty average and repetitive.
While it's important to be 'fair', it's more important to be good.
Then are you implying that GSL and MLG aren't esports; rather an entertainment show just like what WWE is?
Because a gaming tournament is indeed a tournament, but it doesn't necessarily imply that its esports.
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On December 15 2011 05:06 Kontys wrote:
A strict specific rule system on how to qualify will be the first step towards GSL attracting a sustained foreign player attention.
A specific, and static, rule system on how the tournament works and how disputes are resolved will be necessary in the long run to sustain the potential interest of foreign players in the GSL. Foreign players cannot be expected to make the enormous sacrifices necessary without a fixed (or at least perceived reliable, realistically non-arbitrary) framework in place for them to practice their profession. Putting such a framework in place will yield enormous benefits for both Gretec Corp. and the prestige of the GSL.
On a sidenote: What really infuriated me about this whole debacle, besides the obviously outrageous punishment enacted (I did and I do agree Naniwa needed some form of reprimand, but this..), was the aforementioned Korean netizenry reaction, which really showed how malicious, pretentious and dim these supposedly respectful ( / respectable) people were. I've scarcely been so disappointed in any group of people. The moment someone gave the OK, they turned from civilised people to a barbarians with no self-restraint or concept of conscience. Or empathy for that matter. Mob of mongrels determined to kick the shit out of the guy on the ground. MKP of all people.. ChoyafOu... The supposed Real Professionals of progaming indeed. Teaching us all a lesson in the Korean concept of respectfulness.
(sorry for the harsh language in the latter part, but I do think this opinion needs to be stated, with some underlining)
sounds alot the forums here with all the anti korean sentiments
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On December 15 2011 04:44 Papulatus wrote:"found unfit to be a gamer" - What does this mean? I don't see how Nani is "unfit to be a gamer" "players are not allowed any misconduct" How did Nani misconduct? He threw a game that was 100% meaningless. Gom fucked up the format and put Nani is a tough situation. The games would have been sub-par if the games were worthless. If anything, Gom apologizing for the fact that their system didn't work. I think this is just a major cultural disconnect. It seems Koreans look at progaming much more in terms of honor, while foreigners look at it as a profession.
I literally LOL when i read all these posts about how the game was "meaningless".
THis was a hyped match with tons of viewers. The content that could have been derived from a well played fourth match is FAR from meaningless. The only reasonable arguments that can be made about the Naniwa issue are about the severity of the punishment.
Naniwa messed up and GOM is within their rights to punish him. How they went about it seemed severe to me but then I cant think of an enforcable alternative I like.
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More skill I agree, which is but one reason that naniwa does not belong in Code S for free. 0-10 is condemning
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if nestea drone rushed naniwa, no matter what he had accomplished. netizens would have came down on him harder and nestea probably retire out of shame.
naniwa got it easy.
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On December 15 2011 05:12 Velocirapture wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 04:44 Papulatus wrote:On December 15 2011 04:41 yawn wrote:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=141496Please take the time to actually look over the GSL rules before claiming that they are abitrarily making them up as they go. - GomTV can deny your participation if you are found unfit to be a gamer.
- Players are not allowed use bugs or commit any misconduct.
"found unfit to be a gamer" - What does this mean? I don't see how Nani is "unfit to be a gamer" "players are not allowed any misconduct" How did Nani misconduct? He threw a game that was 100% meaningless. Gom fucked up the format and put Nani is a tough situation. The games would have been sub-par if the games were worthless. If anything, Gom apologizing for the fact that their system didn't work. I think this is just a major cultural disconnect. It seems Koreans look at progaming much more in terms of honor, while foreigners look at it as a profession. I literally LOL when i read all these posts about how the game was "meaningless". THis was a hyped match with tons of viewers. The content that could have been derived from a well played fourth match is FAR from meaningless. The only reasonable arguments that can be made about the Naniwa issue are about the severity of the punishment. Naniwa messed up and GOM is within their rights to punish him. How they went about it seemed severe to me but then I cant think of an enforcable alternative I like.
That's the thing.
Sports are self-serving and the entertainment factor is only the effect. Not the cause. The players are the agents.
Your perspective is different from the player like in Johan's case. He only wants to win. Nothing more; nothing less. Lost opportunity, well tough.
To him, the game was meaningless and he decided not to show up like countless other players who don't want to be in those type of situations. Your opinion means nothing to the player. If you get entertainment out of it great. If not tough luck.
They aren't there for you. They are there for themselves first and foremost.
On December 15 2011 05:07 o[twist] wrote:they're not arbitrarily *making up* rules - they're arbitrarily *interpreting* rules that are conveniently vague
Exactly. It's a pragmatic problem.
It's a terrible rule and it should be re-written promptly before any player and audience member can abuse it again. The player's association should be downright dumbfounded that such a rule exists in that vague form.
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On December 15 2011 05:05 OrangeSoda wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 05:02 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 15 2011 04:56 Timerly wrote:On December 15 2011 04:50 stopmakingsense wrote:
"players are not allowed any misconduct" How did Nani misconduct? He threw a game that was 100% meaningless. Gom fucked up the format and should be apologizing for the fact that their system didn't work.
Fucked up the format? There's always a potential for meaningless matches in a tournament with group play. It even happens in the World Cup THE LARGEST TOURNAMENT OF ANYTHING ON THE PLANET. Group standings actually matter to teams in the World Cup. Actually, every game matters as your moving average standing in the world ranking list changes your seeding in tournaments (e.g. Spain and Netherlands couldn't be put into the same group due to being #1 and #2). These matches were totally meaningless. Nothing on the line except the "honor". That's where cultural differences kick in btw. LOL anyone who says naniwa's match was menaingless is obvious ignorant of the current situation. had naniwa played a regular game to entertain his fans (even a carrier rush) then he would be is code S. he threw the game, now he's not in code S. sounds like the game meant alot after all eh? No one including naniwa would have expected his spot revoked.
you shouldn't have to be TOLD to do the right thing.
he should have been disappointed in himself, as a progamer who failed himself, and played his last game for his fans. thats how things work in korea and in the world of entertainment
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I agree that GOM seems to have decided upon this verdict because of netizen/progamer reactions. It would seem that saving face is a large part of maintaining integrity for GOMtv rather than actually providing a fair judgement system as to when they choose to enact these rules.
I don't agree with the punishments that GOM has decided for Naniwa (or cocca, byun and choya for that matter). To me it seems that they were just short-sighted actions not meant to harm anyone rather than intentional offenses. Warnings would have sufficed for all the cases in my opinion as the players do take their participation in these tournaments seriously. I feel sorry for Naniwa that he has to be the example to the foreign community and I believe that a lot of the korean community percieved Naniwa's actions to have been malicious because they were well aware of GOMs past judgements with choya, cocca, byuns cases.
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On December 15 2011 05:20 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 05:05 OrangeSoda wrote:On December 15 2011 05:02 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 15 2011 04:56 Timerly wrote:On December 15 2011 04:50 stopmakingsense wrote:
"players are not allowed any misconduct" How did Nani misconduct? He threw a game that was 100% meaningless. Gom fucked up the format and should be apologizing for the fact that their system didn't work.
Fucked up the format? There's always a potential for meaningless matches in a tournament with group play. It even happens in the World Cup THE LARGEST TOURNAMENT OF ANYTHING ON THE PLANET. Group standings actually matter to teams in the World Cup. Actually, every game matters as your moving average standing in the world ranking list changes your seeding in tournaments (e.g. Spain and Netherlands couldn't be put into the same group due to being #1 and #2). These matches were totally meaningless. Nothing on the line except the "honor". That's where cultural differences kick in btw. LOL anyone who says naniwa's match was menaingless is obvious ignorant of the current situation. had naniwa played a regular game to entertain his fans (even a carrier rush) then he would be is code S. he threw the game, now he's not in code S. sounds like the game meant alot after all eh? No one including naniwa would have expected his spot revoked. you shouldn't have to be TOLD to do the right thing. he should have been disappointed in himself, as a progamer who failed himself, and played his last game for his fans. thats how things work in korea and in the world of entertainment
really? cause in the real world i have the impression you can't just break promises because you don't feel like keeping them anymore.
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On December 15 2011 04:42 TaKemE wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 04:36 jj33 wrote:On December 15 2011 04:33 Master_Blaster wrote:On December 15 2011 04:28 jj33 wrote:On December 15 2011 04:24 Master_Blaster wrote:On December 15 2011 04:17 jj33 wrote:On December 15 2011 04:15 Master_Blaster wrote:On December 15 2011 04:11 Inertia_EU wrote:On December 14 2011 20:13 baoluvboa wrote:
If a Korean did it, he would be finished. Exactly this. If a Korean player disrespected a tournament/did not represent their team well it'd be the end of their career. So what? I don't want the esport to grow in an industry were you get DQ for saying "ggg" instead of "gg". Players need room to show their characters. After all we love a player more by his character than his skill. And respect is subjective. In USA what Naniwa did would have been laughed of. In Korea we must cut his pinkie. Wrong. I'm from america born and raised. NFL for example. Last game of regular season, a team that's already in playoffs, might take it easier sure, to avoid needless injuries. But they would get serious backlash if they came and made a mockery of the game. NIce exxageration with your GGG example and what not. And cutting off pinky? That's a Japanese yakuza thing, nice ignorance. Regarding your comment about liking a player more due to character than skill? hahaha. Ok go watch WWE. I actually like to see the best of the best in regards to skill. Yeah? Who do you follow on stream? Bomber or Destiny? And actually don't answer cause I don't care about you in specific, but the majority. Bomber doesn't go above 2k, like ever. And if the NFL teams take the game easier than they don't deliver 100% of the skill, so it's an irrelevant example. why not force them to play at their best in every game? And I wasn't exaggerating, it's what Kespa does. what a dumb example regarding your stream watching hahha. I guess you would rather watch destiny over MVP in a real tournament huh? And no the NFL example isn't irrelevant. They are still playing the game out and not making a mockery. What naniwa did would be like an NFL team purposely throwing interceptions or fumbling or running the wrong fucken way. Can you provide me with all the matches of NFL that have been played this year to make the statement that they don't waste the time in the game? You are just stating somethin in the air. And comparing StarCraft mathes to timed matches is weird. Naniwa didn't insta gg, he did something useless instead to lose the game. And if the game is pointless then they can do what they want on the field as long as they respect the rules of the game.Who am I to blame them for not playing like it was the finals? Waste what time in the game? I'm not stating anything from thin air. It's really simple. Naniwa threw the game way by throwing probes and no micro no nothing. Literally gave the game away to nestea. That would be the equivalent of an NFL team purposely throwing interceptions or fumbling and literally giving the game away to opposing team. Stop compareing it to a sport that in no way can be compare to this situation pls... There is always ALWAYS money to play for in NFL each match, they dont play for nothing.
So it's OK to be unsportsmanlike if you don't get paid for playing. I see.
That's an... interesting definition of professionalism. He agreed to play. He agreed to show up. But he threw a game. But it's OK, because he wasn't being paid for that game.
On December 15 2011 05:17 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 05:12 Velocirapture wrote:On December 15 2011 04:44 Papulatus wrote:On December 15 2011 04:41 yawn wrote:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=141496Please take the time to actually look over the GSL rules before claiming that they are abitrarily making them up as they go. - GomTV can deny your participation if you are found unfit to be a gamer.
- Players are not allowed use bugs or commit any misconduct.
"found unfit to be a gamer" - What does this mean? I don't see how Nani is "unfit to be a gamer" "players are not allowed any misconduct" How did Nani misconduct? He threw a game that was 100% meaningless. Gom fucked up the format and put Nani is a tough situation. The games would have been sub-par if the games were worthless. If anything, Gom apologizing for the fact that their system didn't work. I think this is just a major cultural disconnect. It seems Koreans look at progaming much more in terms of honor, while foreigners look at it as a profession. I literally LOL when i read all these posts about how the game was "meaningless". THis was a hyped match with tons of viewers. The content that could have been derived from a well played fourth match is FAR from meaningless. The only reasonable arguments that can be made about the Naniwa issue are about the severity of the punishment. Naniwa messed up and GOM is within their rights to punish him. How they went about it seemed severe to me but then I cant think of an enforcable alternative I like. That's the thing. Sports are self-serving and the entertainment factor is only the effect. Not the cause. The players are the agents. Your perspective is different from the player like in Johan's case. He only wants to win. Nothing more; nothing less. Lost opportunity, well tough. To him, the game was meaningless and he decided not to show up like countless other players who don't want to be in those type of situations. Your opinion means nothing to the player. If you get entertainment out of it great. If not tough luck. They aren't there for you. They are there for themselves first and foremost.
No, but GOM is there for me. And it's GOM that the players must ultimately answer to. If the players can't act professionally towards the game, I see no problem with GOM punishing them.
On December 15 2011 05:17 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 05:07 o[twist] wrote:On December 15 2011 04:41 yawn wrote:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=141496Please take the time to actually look over the GSL rules before claiming that they are abitrarily making them up as they go. - GomTV can deny your participation if you are found unfit to be a gamer.
- Players are not allowed use bugs or commit any misconduct.
they're not arbitrarily *making up* rules - they're arbitrarily *interpreting* rules that are conveniently vague Exactly. It's a pragmatic problem.It's a terrible rule and it should be re-written promptly before any player and audience member can abuse it again. The player's association should be downright dumbfounded that such a rule exists in that vague form.
A terrible rule? Every sport has a blanket "unsportsmanlike conduct" rule that allows refs and leagues to impose penalties for arbitrary reasons. All of them.
Leagues should not be required to list every possible act that could be construed as a player being an ass in a game. A simple "don't be an ass" is sufficient for most people.
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All of the people saying that Gom made the rule after it happened, is this actually true? Or are you just making it up or did you read someone else say it than believe it to be true. I am just curious because the tweets from the GSL made it seem like it was a pre-existing rule. Or am I wrong? If so can you send me a link or something to prove this to me?
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On December 15 2011 05:32 NicolBolas wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 04:42 TaKemE wrote:On December 15 2011 04:36 jj33 wrote:On December 15 2011 04:33 Master_Blaster wrote:On December 15 2011 04:28 jj33 wrote:On December 15 2011 04:24 Master_Blaster wrote:On December 15 2011 04:17 jj33 wrote:On December 15 2011 04:15 Master_Blaster wrote:On December 15 2011 04:11 Inertia_EU wrote:On December 14 2011 20:13 baoluvboa wrote:
If a Korean did it, he would be finished. Exactly this. If a Korean player disrespected a tournament/did not represent their team well it'd be the end of their career. So what? I don't want the esport to grow in an industry were you get DQ for saying "ggg" instead of "gg". Players need room to show their characters. After all we love a player more by his character than his skill. And respect is subjective. In USA what Naniwa did would have been laughed of. In Korea we must cut his pinkie. Wrong. I'm from america born and raised. NFL for example. Last game of regular season, a team that's already in playoffs, might take it easier sure, to avoid needless injuries. But they would get serious backlash if they came and made a mockery of the game. NIce exxageration with your GGG example and what not. And cutting off pinky? That's a Japanese yakuza thing, nice ignorance. Regarding your comment about liking a player more due to character than skill? hahaha. Ok go watch WWE. I actually like to see the best of the best in regards to skill. Yeah? Who do you follow on stream? Bomber or Destiny? And actually don't answer cause I don't care about you in specific, but the majority. Bomber doesn't go above 2k, like ever. And if the NFL teams take the game easier than they don't deliver 100% of the skill, so it's an irrelevant example. why not force them to play at their best in every game? And I wasn't exaggerating, it's what Kespa does. what a dumb example regarding your stream watching hahha. I guess you would rather watch destiny over MVP in a real tournament huh? And no the NFL example isn't irrelevant. They are still playing the game out and not making a mockery. What naniwa did would be like an NFL team purposely throwing interceptions or fumbling or running the wrong fucken way. Can you provide me with all the matches of NFL that have been played this year to make the statement that they don't waste the time in the game? You are just stating somethin in the air. And comparing StarCraft mathes to timed matches is weird. Naniwa didn't insta gg, he did something useless instead to lose the game. And if the game is pointless then they can do what they want on the field as long as they respect the rules of the game.Who am I to blame them for not playing like it was the finals? Waste what time in the game? I'm not stating anything from thin air. It's really simple. Naniwa threw the game way by throwing probes and no micro no nothing. Literally gave the game away to nestea. That would be the equivalent of an NFL team purposely throwing interceptions or fumbling and literally giving the game away to opposing team. Stop compareing it to a sport that in no way can be compare to this situation pls... There is always ALWAYS money to play for in NFL each match, they dont play for nothing. So it's OK to be unsportsmanlike if you don't get paid for playing. I see. That's an... interesting definition of professionalism. He agreed to play. He agreed to show up. But he threw a game. But it's OK, because he wasn't being paid for that game. Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 05:17 StarStruck wrote:On December 15 2011 05:12 Velocirapture wrote:On December 15 2011 04:44 Papulatus wrote:On December 15 2011 04:41 yawn wrote:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=141496Please take the time to actually look over the GSL rules before claiming that they are abitrarily making them up as they go. - GomTV can deny your participation if you are found unfit to be a gamer.
- Players are not allowed use bugs or commit any misconduct.
"found unfit to be a gamer" - What does this mean? I don't see how Nani is "unfit to be a gamer" "players are not allowed any misconduct" How did Nani misconduct? He threw a game that was 100% meaningless. Gom fucked up the format and put Nani is a tough situation. The games would have been sub-par if the games were worthless. If anything, Gom apologizing for the fact that their system didn't work. I think this is just a major cultural disconnect. It seems Koreans look at progaming much more in terms of honor, while foreigners look at it as a profession. I literally LOL when i read all these posts about how the game was "meaningless". THis was a hyped match with tons of viewers. The content that could have been derived from a well played fourth match is FAR from meaningless. The only reasonable arguments that can be made about the Naniwa issue are about the severity of the punishment. Naniwa messed up and GOM is within their rights to punish him. How they went about it seemed severe to me but then I cant think of an enforcable alternative I like. That's the thing. Sports are self-serving and the entertainment factor is only the effect. Not the cause. The players are the agents. Your perspective is different from the player like in Johan's case. He only wants to win. Nothing more; nothing less. Lost opportunity, well tough. To him, the game was meaningless and he decided not to show up like countless other players who don't want to be in those type of situations. Your opinion means nothing to the player. If you get entertainment out of it great. If not tough luck. They aren't there for you. They are there for themselves first and foremost. No, but GOM is there for me. And it's GOM that the players must ultimately answer to. If the players can't act professionally towards the game, I see no problem with GOM punishing them. Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 05:17 StarStruck wrote:On December 15 2011 05:07 o[twist] wrote:On December 15 2011 04:41 yawn wrote:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=141496Please take the time to actually look over the GSL rules before claiming that they are abitrarily making them up as they go. - GomTV can deny your participation if you are found unfit to be a gamer.
- Players are not allowed use bugs or commit any misconduct.
they're not arbitrarily *making up* rules - they're arbitrarily *interpreting* rules that are conveniently vague Exactly. It's a pragmatic problem.It's a terrible rule and it should be re-written promptly before any player and audience member can abuse it again. The player's association should be downright dumbfounded that such a rule exists in that vague form. A terrible rule? Every sport has a blanket "unsportsmanlike conduct" rule that allows refs and leagues to impose penalties for arbitrary reasons. All of them. Leagues should not be required to list every possible act that could be construed as a player being an ass in a game. A simple "don't be an ass" is sufficient for most people.
So every time my lousy team loses and shows total lack of fight I'm allowed to go up to the ticket booth and ask for my money back because I'm not happy with the product?
"Sorry, but Phil Kessel didn't score tonight or back check properly on that one goal. I want my money back!" Do you know how ridiculous that sounds?
The only thing you are entitled to do is boo. You want to throw shit at them. Go right ahead! It's over excessive and you wouldn't be the better man.
Get over yourself.
Did you even read how the rule was outlined or how vague it was?
Nothing is explained in it bud: offensive, abusive, player, audience aren't well defined. If you actually read how the one bullet is wrote you wouldn't be so blind.
There's a reason why rulebooks are very long in professional sports. Players act like goons and assholes all the time and aren't always punished for it either and they have a whole fucking book to go through. Right now, we're tearing apart one bullet because it is ridiculous and can be interpreted in many different ways.
For fuck sake.
As it stands, anyone unhappy with a player's abusive/offensive shit that they do in game can go punished by how it's laid out. That is completely absurd.
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to the op: just from a conflict of interest stand point you being from sweden doesn't help your cause in this thread.
HOW I PERSONALLY see what naniwa did I would liken it to free speech.
Freedom of speech means you can say a lot of things and be protected by the constitution/bill of rights, however, just because you CAN say something doesn't mean you SHOULD. In other words, naniwa should be allowed to throw away a game--that is his right, however, to do that to your fans and to nestea (who if i understand correctly stayed up all night practicing on his birthday) is completely shitty.
furthermore, when he makes the 4gate remark, the sad thing is its true. when bbbp pulled 12 scvs and left 2 scvs + a mule mining people didn't say "oh hes throwing away the match." now granted that bbbp's build had the potentital to win while nani's did not, in a sense it is kind of the same.
i hope people that read this post understand that i don't support what naniwa did but rather his right to do it albeit however stupid it is.
tldr; should he be able to? yes. is it the right thing to do for the people that support you? hell no.
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Calgary25998 Posts
Sorry, was driving me crazy:
Is GOMs arbitrary rules becoming a problem?
Fixed 
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On December 15 2011 05:07 supernovamaniac wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 04:47 Defacer wrote:
No worse than MLG's arbitrary rules about Korean invites.
They literally just sit around and discuss what Koreans would be cool to have in a tournament. That's how players like Boxer, Nada and MMA where invited. And everyone, particularly the audience, benefitted from it.
GSL and MLG have it right. At the end of the day, they are a business that caters to fans, not players -- their viewership and sponsors play the bills. Whatever is going to produce the most entertaining product is the highest priority.
Look at an organization like NASL -- which, on paper, is 'an ideal' and fair tournament structure that rewards the most consistent players. The viewing experience it produces is pretty average and repetitive.
While it's important to be 'fair', it's more important to be good.
Then are you implying that GSL and MLG aren't esports; rather an entertainment show just like what WWE is? Because a gaming tournament is indeed a tournament, but it doesn't necessarily imply that its esports.
Of course it's e-sports. But this expectation that the community has -- that these organizations should solely exist to facilitate a procedural system that finds and rewards 'the best SC2' player -- is ludicrous.
GSL and MLG both conduct their business with a high degree of transparency -- more than other major sports. But they both compromise their relatively fair system with foreign invites to insure that their tournaments include interesting international players.
And it's frankly better this way -- I'd rather have Korean invites at NA tournaments than no Korean players at all. NASL tried to invent a 'fair system' that would allow Koreans to participate, and the result was a system that gave Korean's almost NO incentive to participate.
This problem of facilitating international play isn't exclusive to Starcraft. If the NBA could figure out a way to include overseas teams in their regular season, they would. They've tried and talked about it for years.
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Calgary25998 Posts
Oh then it got closed. 
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On December 15 2011 05:42 BroboCop wrote:
to the op: just from a conflict of interest stand point you being from sweden doesn't help your cause in this thread.
The intelligence level of the TL forums is free-falling off a cliff today.
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On December 14 2011 20:20 NovaTheFeared wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:18 Itsmedudeman wrote:On December 14 2011 20:13 baoluvboa wrote:
If a Korean did it, he would be finished. A korean would have been kicked off his team. That's exactly what would have happened, and we have precedent. After seeing that, I'm convinced Naniwa still has some growing up to do.
But Naniwa isn't korean. And Quantic is not a Korean team. This is the whole culture clash everyone keeps talking about. The only binding thing in this whole shitstorm was the contract between Naniwa and Gom, about the tournament. And none of the contract said "you can't probe rush nestea in a meaningless game." If GOM can cite KEY contract phrases or notes, then by all means withdraw his invite, but until then, any formal actions such as taking away an invite Naniwa EARNED is simply unwarranted.
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On December 15 2011 05:12 Velocirapture wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 04:44 Papulatus wrote:On December 15 2011 04:41 yawn wrote:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=141496Please take the time to actually look over the GSL rules before claiming that they are abitrarily making them up as they go. - GomTV can deny your participation if you are found unfit to be a gamer.
- Players are not allowed use bugs or commit any misconduct.
"found unfit to be a gamer" - What does this mean? I don't see how Nani is "unfit to be a gamer" "players are not allowed any misconduct" How did Nani misconduct? He threw a game that was 100% meaningless. Gom fucked up the format and put Nani is a tough situation. The games would have been sub-par if the games were worthless. If anything, Gom apologizing for the fact that their system didn't work. I think this is just a major cultural disconnect. It seems Koreans look at progaming much more in terms of honor, while foreigners look at it as a profession. I literally LOL when i read all these posts about how the game was "meaningless". THis was a hyped match with tons of viewers. The content that could have been derived from a well played fourth match is FAR from meaningless. The only reasonable arguments that can be made about the Naniwa issue are about the severity of the punishment. Naniwa messed up and GOM is within their rights to punish him. How they went about it seemed severe to me but then I cant think of an enforcable alternative I like.
Even if the game was played normally. I don't think anyone would cite that game as proof or usage of saying player x is better than player y because they played that meaningless game in Blizzcup. And seriously, I think the hype instantly died when everyone found out it was an 0-3 nestea vs an 0-3 naniwa.
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EPT
