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Its their tournament, so generally speaking, if you dont like it, go somehere else.
It belive its not based on the fact that naniwa acted unprofessional, but on the fact that eSports is a fragile buissness, and if players behave like that, it will lose the few sponsors that actually invest in them.
Naniwa probably was depressed and thats why he did that, but he has to remmber that "Naniwa Vs Nestea" is a match many might have high expetcations about, even at that point.
In football (a much more developed sport) friendly games for charity for example, bring stars from other sports like shumacher (i dont know exactly how you write his name), and those guys work their ass off, even if there is not much at stake. Thats why later on the are respected and thats why they are asked to attend to more events.
If your behaviour is poor, your requirement will be low.
Its not Unfair, or fair, its not biased or unbiased: Its cause and effect. Its how the world works.
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On December 15 2011 05:32 NicolBolas wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 04:42 TaKemE wrote:On December 15 2011 04:36 jj33 wrote:On December 15 2011 04:33 Master_Blaster wrote:On December 15 2011 04:28 jj33 wrote:On December 15 2011 04:24 Master_Blaster wrote:On December 15 2011 04:17 jj33 wrote:On December 15 2011 04:15 Master_Blaster wrote:On December 15 2011 04:11 Inertia_EU wrote:On December 14 2011 20:13 baoluvboa wrote:
If a Korean did it, he would be finished. Exactly this. If a Korean player disrespected a tournament/did not represent their team well it'd be the end of their career. So what? I don't want the esport to grow in an industry were you get DQ for saying "ggg" instead of "gg". Players need room to show their characters. After all we love a player more by his character than his skill. And respect is subjective. In USA what Naniwa did would have been laughed of. In Korea we must cut his pinkie. Wrong. I'm from america born and raised. NFL for example. Last game of regular season, a team that's already in playoffs, might take it easier sure, to avoid needless injuries. But they would get serious backlash if they came and made a mockery of the game. NIce exxageration with your GGG example and what not. And cutting off pinky? That's a Japanese yakuza thing, nice ignorance. Regarding your comment about liking a player more due to character than skill? hahaha. Ok go watch WWE. I actually like to see the best of the best in regards to skill. Yeah? Who do you follow on stream? Bomber or Destiny? And actually don't answer cause I don't care about you in specific, but the majority. Bomber doesn't go above 2k, like ever. And if the NFL teams take the game easier than they don't deliver 100% of the skill, so it's an irrelevant example. why not force them to play at their best in every game? And I wasn't exaggerating, it's what Kespa does. what a dumb example regarding your stream watching hahha. I guess you would rather watch destiny over MVP in a real tournament huh? And no the NFL example isn't irrelevant. They are still playing the game out and not making a mockery. What naniwa did would be like an NFL team purposely throwing interceptions or fumbling or running the wrong fucken way. Can you provide me with all the matches of NFL that have been played this year to make the statement that they don't waste the time in the game? You are just stating somethin in the air. And comparing StarCraft mathes to timed matches is weird. Naniwa didn't insta gg, he did something useless instead to lose the game. And if the game is pointless then they can do what they want on the field as long as they respect the rules of the game.Who am I to blame them for not playing like it was the finals? Waste what time in the game? I'm not stating anything from thin air. It's really simple. Naniwa threw the game way by throwing probes and no micro no nothing. Literally gave the game away to nestea. That would be the equivalent of an NFL team purposely throwing interceptions or fumbling and literally giving the game away to opposing team. Stop compareing it to a sport that in no way can be compare to this situation pls... There is always ALWAYS money to play for in NFL each match, they dont play for nothing. So it's OK to be unsportsmanlike if you don't get paid for playing. I see. That's an... interesting definition of professionalism. He agreed to play. He agreed to show up. But he threw a game. But it's OK, because he wasn't being paid for that game. Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 05:17 StarStruck wrote:On December 15 2011 05:12 Velocirapture wrote:On December 15 2011 04:44 Papulatus wrote:On December 15 2011 04:41 yawn wrote:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=141496Please take the time to actually look over the GSL rules before claiming that they are abitrarily making them up as they go. - GomTV can deny your participation if you are found unfit to be a gamer.
- Players are not allowed use bugs or commit any misconduct.
"found unfit to be a gamer" - What does this mean? I don't see how Nani is "unfit to be a gamer" "players are not allowed any misconduct" How did Nani misconduct? He threw a game that was 100% meaningless. Gom fucked up the format and put Nani is a tough situation. The games would have been sub-par if the games were worthless. If anything, Gom apologizing for the fact that their system didn't work. I think this is just a major cultural disconnect. It seems Koreans look at progaming much more in terms of honor, while foreigners look at it as a profession. I literally LOL when i read all these posts about how the game was "meaningless". THis was a hyped match with tons of viewers. The content that could have been derived from a well played fourth match is FAR from meaningless. The only reasonable arguments that can be made about the Naniwa issue are about the severity of the punishment. Naniwa messed up and GOM is within their rights to punish him. How they went about it seemed severe to me but then I cant think of an enforcable alternative I like. That's the thing. Sports are self-serving and the entertainment factor is only the effect. Not the cause. The players are the agents. Your perspective is different from the player like in Johan's case. He only wants to win. Nothing more; nothing less. Lost opportunity, well tough. To him, the game was meaningless and he decided not to show up like countless other players who don't want to be in those type of situations. Your opinion means nothing to the player. If you get entertainment out of it great. If not tough luck. They aren't there for you. They are there for themselves first and foremost. No, but GOM is there for me. And it's GOM that the players must ultimately answer to. If the players can't act professionally towards the game, I see no problem with GOM punishing them. Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 05:17 StarStruck wrote:On December 15 2011 05:07 o[twist] wrote:On December 15 2011 04:41 yawn wrote:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=141496Please take the time to actually look over the GSL rules before claiming that they are abitrarily making them up as they go. - GomTV can deny your participation if you are found unfit to be a gamer.
- Players are not allowed use bugs or commit any misconduct.
they're not arbitrarily *making up* rules - they're arbitrarily *interpreting* rules that are conveniently vague Exactly. It's a pragmatic problem.It's a terrible rule and it should be re-written promptly before any player and audience member can abuse it again. The player's association should be downright dumbfounded that such a rule exists in that vague form. A terrible rule? Every sport has a blanket "unsportsmanlike conduct" rule that allows refs and leagues to impose penalties for arbitrary reasons. All of them. Leagues should not be required to list every possible act that could be construed as a player being an ass in a game. A simple "don't be an ass" is sufficient for most people.
You know, most professional sports have some sort of rule for that but these have a much more well defined basis. As an example, it clearly states in football rules that unsportsmanlike conduct gets you a yellow card (warning) and physical abuse with harmful intention gets you a red card (you're out). This has clear offences and punishments. Now the fun thing is that the rules are 50 pages but the code for referees is 60 pages, explaining when to uphold the rules in what way. The whole code for referees is not present but this is what contains all the definitions, cases etc. that make a rulebook applicable.
I've had my fair share of asses on the playing field that still behaved within the boundaries of the rules, now is someone being an ass an offense? Usually not, it's all about conduct according to rules and their usual intepretation which in this case is just a horrible rule set that was used to somehow justify a decision made after the fact. There should have been better rules.
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I've honestly been researching the GOM tournament rulesets and nowhere does it say that worker rushes are against the rules. GOMtv bent a rule about proffesionalism to pertain to this certain situation so they could punish the player. Which is a very underhanded buisness tactic.
People need to stop posting about naniwa in this thread the thread is about GOMtv and wether they had a rule in place that would pertain to this situation.
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i don't agree with retroactively punishing someone for a rule that doesn't exist when the player's actions are within reason. i don't agree with retroactively inflicting punishments on something as inconsequential as throwing a no-stakes game that has no place in a tournament. you can argue principle all you want, but the reality is that nani's actions are NOTHING like ladder fixing or throwing a game to give someone else a seed.
also, i feel this is GOM shrugging off responsibility for having a poor format, unless they are also going to fix problems on their end.
the korean responses i've read were overall pretty stupid, imo. choya calling naniwa out was the best.
it is OBVIOUS that GOM is punishing naniwa for reasons that did not impact the tournament. what he did wasn't as bad as cheating or anything like that (some idiot in the SoTG thread said peeing on the floor, rofl), so GOM didn't step in right away. they watched the forum hate machine do its thing out and made a decision that seems like it was based on the community reaction, which was largely emotional.
give the man his code S seed. he deserves it and did nothing underhanded.
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So the koreans are having a witchhunt on Naniwa when everyone should know he's one of the most unprofessional players out there? And because of this GOM arbitrarily took his Code S spot?
It seems like the koreans jumped the gun again . I remember back in the earlier GSLs, all the Terrans were marine scv rushing every game because it was unstoppable. From what I recall, the koreans went batshit on the Terran players and nobody does scv marine rushes anymore because of it.
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On December 15 2011 06:30 Phizix wrote:
I've honestly been researching the GOM tournament rulesets and nowhere does it say that worker rushes are against the rules. GOMtv bent a rule about proffesionalism to pertain to this certain situation so they could punish the player. Which is a very underhanded buisness tactic.
People need to stop posting about naniwa in this thread the thread is about GOMtv and wether they had a rule in place that would pertain to this situation.
It's not about the effing worker rush. I'm so tired of people not getting such a simple concept
-GSL is run by Koreans
-Koreans take pride in Starcraft
-Korean SC players do not skimp out on games, regardless of their situation, they take pride in their profession, and do not want to disappoint their team, sponsors, fans, and themselves, as well as their families.
-Probe rushing is skimping and essentially forfeiting the game
-he had a hand on his friggin face he was that enthusiastic
-GOM sees this, sees he's being dishonorable, and UNINVITES HIM FROM AN INVITATIONAL, HE WAS NOT SEEDED
When in Rome, act as the Romans do. You might not understand why Koreans did this, but they have a much different culture than the Western world. If you think "Oh Korean honor etc. is from medieval times lol", then you're ignorant, Asian cultures take a lot of pride in what they do.
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I'm glad they removed him but I wish he didn't do it. I don't want to pay for probe rushes and I'm sure the GSL sponsors don't either. You don't have to make a rule for every stupid thing a player might do and I'm glad GSL realizes this.
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You have no facts that back up your statements. Coca would have been punished just as hard had he not bowed out, and he wasn't even playing in the GSL when he did it.
The fact that they hold integrity over rules (even though HE DID disrespect Nestea, etc.) is what I like about GOM to be honest. They are willing to be flexible on both ends of the spectrum when they should be, rather than adhering very strictly to the rules like KESPA.
On December 15 2011 06:30 Phizix wrote:
I've honestly been researching the GOM tournament rulesets and nowhere does it say that worker rushes are against the rules. GOMtv bent a rule about proffesionalism to pertain to this certain situation so they could punish the player. Which is a very underhanded buisness tactic.
People need to stop posting about naniwa in this thread the thread is about GOMtv and wether they had a rule in place that would pertain to this situation.
I don't think the rule was "bent" in any way, they just usually choose not to enforce that rule when it's a less serious offense. It fits the situation perfectly to be honest.
But in all honesty they shouldn't NEED rule about something like this, it's like Naniwa shooting the other play and then people saying "BUT THERE WAS NO RULE AGAINST IT!!!!" when it should be understood regardless. Maybe they'll add a rule more specific to this situation for the future, but in reality it shouldn't be necessary, nor does that make GOM at fault in any way.
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This entire situation is ridiculous. Why are people fighting for Naniwa at all?
You act unprofessionally, you're treated unprofessionally. Why would Naniwa deserve to keep his invitation after disrespecting the game and one of its top player's like that. Especially in a yearly anniversary tournament!
The point is to play out your games for the fans and sponsors, show how exciting the game is every chance you get. Instead he just flailed his arms like a baby saying I don't give a f**k about SC.
End the god damn argument and appreciate the standards that GOM are setting.
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On December 15 2011 06:36 N1ghtshade wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 06:30 Phizix wrote:
I've honestly been researching the GOM tournament rulesets and nowhere does it say that worker rushes are against the rules. GOMtv bent a rule about proffesionalism to pertain to this certain situation so they could punish the player. Which is a very underhanded buisness tactic.
People need to stop posting about naniwa in this thread the thread is about GOMtv and wether they had a rule in place that would pertain to this situation. It's not about the effing worker rush. I'm so tired of people not getting such a simple concept -GSL is run by Koreans -Koreans take pride in Starcraft -Korean SC players do not skimp out on games, regardless of their situation, they take pride in their profession, and do not want to disappoint their team, sponsors, fans, and themselves, as well as their families. -Probe rushing is skimping and essentially forfeiting the game -he had a hand on his friggin face he was that enthusiastic -GOM sees this, sees he's being dishonorable, and UNINVITES HIM FROM AN INVITATIONAL, HE WAS NOT SEEDED When in Rome, act as the Romans do. You might not understand why Koreans did this, but they have a much different culture than the Western world. If you think "Oh Korean honor etc. is from medieval times lol", then you're ignorant, Asian cultures take a lot of pride in what they do.
Except you're completely wrong there are several posts on mlg stating naniwa was seeded into code s (even though thats not what the post is about.)
The korean's may have a culture of respect and honor but how does it look when their flagship sc2 epsorts organisation completely makes up a rule to punish something they don't like? Probe rushing may be "like forfeiting" but he played the game rather then just leaving, and I'm 100% sure GOMtv doesnt have a rule against probe rushing or "essentially forfeitting."
This would be like MLG saying Idra you smashed your keyboard at Anaheim so now you cannot attend Raleigh, even though they never had a rule about smashing keyboards.
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That rule seems ridiculously hard to break if players had any common sense. We've seen more than a dozen BM ceremonies already and they don't flaunt the rule at all.
The rule has to be flexible because it is pretty hard to list down all the possible actions that they should disallow when the punishment was going to go on a case by case basis in the first place like savior being banned for life versus choya for one GSTL season versus coca who wasn't punished because his team gave him one that is obviously tougher than Naniwa's punishment.
Don't be an idiot and it's impossible to get punished. I don't know if any Koreans out there found this one rule debatable at all.
On December 15 2011 06:33 Zombo Joe wrote:
So the koreans are having a witchhunt on Naniwa when everyone should know he's one of the most unprofessional players out there? And because of this GOM arbitrarily took his Code S spot?
It seems like the koreans jumped the gun again . I remember back in the earlier GSLs, all the Terrans were marine scv rushing every game because it was unstoppable. From what I recall, the koreans went batshit on the Terran players and nobody does scv marine rushes anymore because of it.
Didn't sC did it still against DRG in the LG tournament and Nestea in a GSL RO4? Balance whining is pretty different from what they deem unprofessional behavior.
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On December 15 2011 06:43 Phizix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 06:36 N1ghtshade wrote:On December 15 2011 06:30 Phizix wrote:
I've honestly been researching the GOM tournament rulesets and nowhere does it say that worker rushes are against the rules. GOMtv bent a rule about proffesionalism to pertain to this certain situation so they could punish the player. Which is a very underhanded buisness tactic.
People need to stop posting about naniwa in this thread the thread is about GOMtv and wether they had a rule in place that would pertain to this situation. It's not about the effing worker rush. I'm so tired of people not getting such a simple concept -GSL is run by Koreans -Koreans take pride in Starcraft -Korean SC players do not skimp out on games, regardless of their situation, they take pride in their profession, and do not want to disappoint their team, sponsors, fans, and themselves, as well as their families. -Probe rushing is skimping and essentially forfeiting the game -he had a hand on his friggin face he was that enthusiastic -GOM sees this, sees he's being dishonorable, and UNINVITES HIM FROM AN INVITATIONAL, HE WAS NOT SEEDED When in Rome, act as the Romans do. You might not understand why Koreans did this, but they have a much different culture than the Western world. If you think "Oh Korean honor etc. is from medieval times lol", then you're ignorant, Asian cultures take a lot of pride in what they do. Except you're completely wrong there are several posts on mlg stating naniwa was seeded into code s (even though thats not what the post is about.) The korean's may have a culture of respect and honor but how does it look when their flagship sc2 epsorts organisation completely makes up a rule to punish something they don't like? Probe rushing may be "like forfeiting" but he played the game rather then just leaving, and I'm 100% sure GOMtv doesnt have a rule against probe rushing or "essentially forfeitting." This would be like MLG saying Idra you smashed your keyboard at Anaheim so now you cannot attend Raleigh, even though they never had a rule about smashing keyboards.
They did not make it up. "If we feel you are not progamer material, you will be not invited" something along those lines. Professionals do not, not make the minimal effort. He could have 4 gated, failed, then GGed, he didn't even try though. When you are in CODE S, the TOP LEAGUE IN THE WORLD, or so it's been called, you don't do that shit. MLG is a much larger tournament that isn't as exclusive.
EDIT: and with that, I'm glad NaNi was kicked out, he's not professional material.
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On December 14 2011 20:21 Goibon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:17 red4ce wrote:
What GOM giveth, so too GOM shall taketh away. Coca and Rain lost their code S spots for 'unprofessional behavior' so it's not like we didn't know the rule didn't exist. What did Rain do... was it not show up to a match or something? I can't remember it was so long ago -_-
He moved to New York, iirc -_-
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Thing is, people tend to be asses. They also tend to not act it out becaue they know it's against the rules. Now, Nani was tilted and threw the game. Yes, he might have already had to know it would have negative implications, the thing is, the severity of the punishment was not clear to him so he didn't control himself as he might have done had he known what the implications were. Rules are not only made to decide cases, they're also made to prevent them!
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On December 15 2011 06:49 Timerly wrote:
Thing is, people tend to be asses. They also tend to not act it out becaue they know it's against the rules. Now, Nani was tilted and threw the game. Yes, he might have already had to know it would have negative implications, the thing is, the severity of the punishment was not clear to him so he didn't control himself as he might have done had he known what the implications were. Rules are not only made to decide cases, they're also made to prevent them!
It's called common sense, common courtesy, and sportsmanship -.- I honestly don't know why everyone is defending him.
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Hell, the NON-arbitrary GOM rules are a problem. Unnecessarily complicated and confusing. This is a distraction.
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On December 15 2011 06:45 N1ghtshade wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 06:43 Phizix wrote:On December 15 2011 06:36 N1ghtshade wrote:On December 15 2011 06:30 Phizix wrote:
I've honestly been researching the GOM tournament rulesets and nowhere does it say that worker rushes are against the rules. GOMtv bent a rule about proffesionalism to pertain to this certain situation so they could punish the player. Which is a very underhanded buisness tactic.
People need to stop posting about naniwa in this thread the thread is about GOMtv and wether they had a rule in place that would pertain to this situation. It's not about the effing worker rush. I'm so tired of people not getting such a simple concept -GSL is run by Koreans -Koreans take pride in Starcraft -Korean SC players do not skimp out on games, regardless of their situation, they take pride in their profession, and do not want to disappoint their team, sponsors, fans, and themselves, as well as their families. -Probe rushing is skimping and essentially forfeiting the game -he had a hand on his friggin face he was that enthusiastic -GOM sees this, sees he's being dishonorable, and UNINVITES HIM FROM AN INVITATIONAL, HE WAS NOT SEEDED When in Rome, act as the Romans do. You might not understand why Koreans did this, but they have a much different culture than the Western world. If you think "Oh Korean honor etc. is from medieval times lol", then you're ignorant, Asian cultures take a lot of pride in what they do. Except you're completely wrong there are several posts on mlg stating naniwa was seeded into code s (even though thats not what the post is about.) The korean's may have a culture of respect and honor but how does it look when their flagship sc2 epsorts organisation completely makes up a rule to punish something they don't like? Probe rushing may be "like forfeiting" but he played the game rather then just leaving, and I'm 100% sure GOMtv doesnt have a rule against probe rushing or "essentially forfeitting." This would be like MLG saying Idra you smashed your keyboard at Anaheim so now you cannot attend Raleigh, even though they never had a rule about smashing keyboards. They did not make it up. "If we feel you are not progamer material, you will be not invited" something along those lines. Professionals do not, not make the minimal effort. He could have 4 gated, failed, then GGed, he didn't even try though. When you are in CODE S, the TOP LEAGUE IN THE WORLD, or so it's been called, you don't do that shit. MLG is a much larger tournament that isn't as exclusive. EDIT: and with that, I'm glad NaNi was kicked out, he's not professional material.
So you make some random statement saying they did have a rule about not probe rushing and dont cite your sources?
kk i've been searching for GOMtv rulesets and Blizzard Cup rules for a while now and GOM doesnt even have a proffesionalism rule.
Here's GOMtv's tournament ruleset:
Tournament Rules
Game Play Rules
1) All matches will be played with ‘StarCraft II – Wings of Liberty’ (12+ version, rated by GRB).
2) All matches will be played with the latest patch available at the time of the game play.
3) All matches will follow the tournament format. Ro16 : Bo3, Ro8~Semifinals : Bo5, Final : Bo7
4) Games will be played on maps included in the map pool.
5) Players must disable Toast Notifications in the Battle.net options.
6) All players must set their status to Busy.
7) All games will be observed by 2 GOMTV Observers.
8) Observer will host all games and players must notify the observer that they are ready via the waiting room’s chatting window.
9) There should be no communication between the players other than ‘GG’, ‘gg’, ‘ㅎㅎ’,'ㅈㅈ' and etc to surrender the game.
10) No known bugs or cheats are allowed during game play.
Equipment and Other Rules
All players must arrive at the tournament venue no later than 15 minutes prior to the start of the game.
All players are allowed 15 minutes to adjust their personal settings.
All players are allowed to user their personal equipment.
The list of the personal equipment allowed is as follows:
1) Keyboard
2) Mouse
3) Mouse Pad
4) Mouse Stand
5) Earphone
6) Mouse Driver
Player must use the Wide LCD monitor provided by GOMTV. (Player is able to adjust the resolution or graphic option.)
Player must use the computer provided by GOMTV.
All players must put on the earphone first then put on the headset provided by GOMTV.
Game Pause and Replay Rules
When the player feels that a game should be paused, he or she should press the buzzer in the game booth immediately.
When the buzzer is pressed, the observer and the referee will pause the game.
A player is able to request for a pause under the following conditions:
1) When the equipment is not functioning or malfunctioning (Keyboard, Mouse, Monitor, PC and etc.)
2) When a major game related bug has been observed during the game play
3) When the game sound has been turned off and the player is able to hear the noise outside of the booth
4) When the player experiences other factors that he or she believes that might greatly affect the game play
If the game has been paused due to the reasons above, the host will resolve the issue and promptly resume the game.
In case one of the following events occurs, the game in play will be tossed out and the game will be replayed.
1) When the game is paused due to equipment malfunction, power outage, network error and etc that are required for the progress of the tournament
2) When the computer used by the player malfunctions or shuts down
3) When a game related bug that was previously unknown or clearly unintentional occurs
4) When the game play can no longer be continued due to the disturbance and noise caused by behaviors including trespassing on to the stage, throwing of stuff, violet languages or actions
5) When it becomes impossible to determine win or lose based on the content of the game play
6) When the game needs to be paused due to unavoidable circumstances such as natural disaster
7) In case the PCs of the referee and observer drop resulting in the inability to broadcast, the game should be resumed and the match result will be recognized if the players are still able to continue the game. The host and the referee are able to act flexibly depending on the situation
Automatic Loss Rule
When the friend log-in notification pops up during the game play
When the player receives a whisper (message) during the game play from another user (failure to set the status to busy)
Sending chat messages other than ‘GG’, ‘gg’, ‘ㅎㅎ’,'ㅈㅈ' to declare the loss during the game.
Displaying violent behaviors to threaten the opposing player or the audience.
Arriving at the tournament venue after 15 minutes prior to the start of the game.
Delaying games intentionally even after the allotted time (15 minutes) for personal settings.
Using known bugs and cheats during the game play.
Sorry but making up rules to punish something they don't like is certainly not what GOMtv wants to be known for neither does the Esports community as a whole.
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Naniwa's situation was not arbitrary at all. Koreans have had similar situations and gotten punished the same or harder.
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Without Goms "Arbitrary" rules no foreigner would have gotten Code A\S invites.
No they are not a problem. The problem is people being too butthurt when they don't like the rules
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On December 15 2011 05:17 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 05:12 Velocirapture wrote:On December 15 2011 04:44 Papulatus wrote:On December 15 2011 04:41 yawn wrote:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=141496Please take the time to actually look over the GSL rules before claiming that they are abitrarily making them up as they go. - GomTV can deny your participation if you are found unfit to be a gamer.
- Players are not allowed use bugs or commit any misconduct.
"found unfit to be a gamer" - What does this mean? I don't see how Nani is "unfit to be a gamer" "players are not allowed any misconduct" How did Nani misconduct? He threw a game that was 100% meaningless. Gom fucked up the format and put Nani is a tough situation. The games would have been sub-par if the games were worthless. If anything, Gom apologizing for the fact that their system didn't work. I think this is just a major cultural disconnect. It seems Koreans look at progaming much more in terms of honor, while foreigners look at it as a profession. I literally LOL when i read all these posts about how the game was "meaningless". THis was a hyped match with tons of viewers. The content that could have been derived from a well played fourth match is FAR from meaningless. The only reasonable arguments that can be made about the Naniwa issue are about the severity of the punishment. Naniwa messed up and GOM is within their rights to punish him. How they went about it seemed severe to me but then I cant think of an enforcable alternative I like. That's the thing. Sports are self-serving and the entertainment factor is only the effect. Not the cause. The players are the agents. Your perspective is different from the player like in Johan's case. He only wants to win. Nothing more; nothing less. Lost opportunity, well tough. To him, the game was meaningless and he decided not to show up like countless other players who don't want to be in those type of situations. Your opinion means nothing to the player. If you get entertainment out of it great. If not tough luck. They aren't there for you. They are there for themselves first and foremost. Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 05:07 o[twist] wrote:On December 15 2011 04:41 yawn wrote:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=141496Please take the time to actually look over the GSL rules before claiming that they are abitrarily making them up as they go. - GomTV can deny your participation if you are found unfit to be a gamer.
- Players are not allowed use bugs or commit any misconduct.
they're not arbitrarily *making up* rules - they're arbitrarily *interpreting* rules that are conveniently vague Exactly. It's a pragmatic problem.It's a terrible rule and it should be re-written promptly before any player and audience member can abuse it again. The player's association should be downright dumbfounded that such a rule exists in that vague form.
This is exactly the childish perspective that needs to be done away with. Thank you for making my point.
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EPT
