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Are GOMs arbitrary rules becoming a problem? - Page 12

Forum Index > SC2 General
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HuKPOWA
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States1604 Posts
December 14 2011 15:22 GMT
#221
In the ESL there was a recent "problem" with match fixing both the players got thrown out of Code S and out of tournaments for a long time....

Now lets see...Naniwa got his Code S seed revoked...he isn't banned from the league...he is revoked from Code S this season

So...it seems like they went a little easy on him
Bubbas
Profile Joined December 2010
Sweden76 Posts
December 14 2011 15:23 GMT
#222
GOMtv is just stupid...
MasterBlasterCaster
Profile Joined October 2011
United States568 Posts
December 14 2011 15:23 GMT
#223
On December 15 2011 00:22 HuKPOWA wrote:
In the ESL there was a recent "problem" with match fixing both the players got thrown out of Code S and out of tournaments for a long time....

Now lets see...Naniwa got his Code S seed revoked...he isn't banned from the league...he is revoked from Code S this season

So...it seems like they went a little easy on him

Nani didn't fix any matches though. He just tried a really bad build that completely failed.

Whether he had almost no chance of winning or not is irrelevant.
HuKPOWA
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States1604 Posts
December 14 2011 15:26 GMT
#224
On December 15 2011 00:23 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2011 00:22 HuKPOWA wrote:
In the ESL there was a recent "problem" with match fixing both the players got thrown out of Code S and out of tournaments for a long time....

Now lets see...Naniwa got his Code S seed revoked...he isn't banned from the league...he is revoked from Code S this season

So...it seems like they went a little easy on him

Nani didn't fix any matches though. He just tried a really bad build that completely failed.

Whether he had almost no chance of winning or not is irrelevant.


When you throw a game...which Naniwa admitted to, it takes all the professionalism away from Naniwa no matter how hard he worked to get his Code S spot...he would probably do the same exact thing in GSL Code S if he was in the bottom of his gorup
Tula
Profile Joined December 2010
Austria1544 Posts
December 14 2011 15:26 GMT
#225
On December 15 2011 00:15 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2011 00:11 Jibba wrote:
On December 14 2011 23:59 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
On December 14 2011 21:19 Velr wrote:
You don't see football clubs that our allready out of the championship kicking the ball willingly in their own goal or just sit at the sidelines for 90 minutes just because they allready lost.

This needs to be addressed right now:

Did Naniwa kill his own probes? No? Then what he did is in NO WAY comparable to kicking goals into his own net.

Did Naniwa let his probes stand idle until NesTea killed them off? No? Then what he did is in NO WAY comparable to sitting on the sidelines for the entire game.

What he did is comparable to putting almost zero effort into the game, which happens ALL THE TIME in professional sports. You people need to STOP comparing this to things that it is clearly not even close to being. It does not help your position at all.


No, it doesn't. He a-moved probes across the map and didn't touch them. You DO NOT see teams, even b teams, putting in as little effort as Naniwa did. Even in preseason games, they play harder than Naniwa did. As a player, he was essentially idle.

While the OP has some points, it's also full of a bunch of terrible assertions that the OP is in no position to make. The decision is only because of netizen reactions?

You can argue all day about how much effort he did or didn't put in as opposed to how much effort other do or don't put in. But it is all elementary. We all have seen professionals putting in nowhere near enough effort to win. If you want to call one situation of "I don't give a crap" better than another because in one the guy happened to put in more effort at HIDING the fact that he wasn't putting in any effort to WIN, than I find that to be hypocritical.

I can totally see where he is coming with the assertion that this is based on bandwagon reactions by GOM. Do you really think if everyone thought it was brilliant and hilarious that they would have not only banned the guy, but would have insulted him personally? No. I seriously doubt that they would. Maybe I'm wrong though... never know these days.


Sorry mate but you seem to lack basic understanding of the situation. If Naniwas actions had not been so offensive there would be no outrage over them, ergo Gom would not react to them (or need to react even).

His play WAS so offensive that a majority of the Koreans and a fairly significant amount of people worldwide were up in arms about it (as evidenced by the heated debate over here as well).

If you want to bring faulty analogies into it, let me offer you one more: in a completly meaningless game (post-season, play off spots fixed and both sides playing already out of it) one side brings their B lineup to give them experience (what most people say Nani should have done) while the other side get's out on the field, kicks the ball once in the direction of the other sides goal and then sits down and has a rest (what Naniwa has done). What exactly is the league supposed to say to such behaviour? Can there be any other reaction than heavy fines/sanctions if they want to present a professional image?
Tula
Profile Joined December 2010
Austria1544 Posts
December 14 2011 15:27 GMT
#226
On December 15 2011 00:22 HuKPOWA wrote:
In the ESL there was a recent "problem" with match fixing both the players got thrown out of Code S and out of tournaments for a long time....

Now lets see...Naniwa got his Code S seed revoked...he isn't banned from the league...he is revoked from Code S this season

So...it seems like they went a little easy on him


In the ESV Korean Weekly, not the ESL. Just a slight correction.
Zraf
Profile Joined August 2010
54 Posts
December 14 2011 15:27 GMT
#227
I think its similar to how MLG picks the korean invites? Contact a bunch of players and go down the list as the top reject it, behind closed doors. Then again I don't think there are more deserving players than both Sen and Idra results wise, that are willing to stay and spend time in Korea. (Correct me if I'm wrong tho, but I cant think of anybody on top if my head)
HyTex
Profile Joined August 2011
United States67 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-14 15:29:09
December 14 2011 15:28 GMT
#228
Completely GOM's fault.

When you make a shit format that allows for meaningless games like this, it's only a manner of time before something like this happens. What if the probe rusher was WhiteRa? Or Sheth? I'm sure the community's opinion would have been different if one of their beloved manner players ragequit.

So this decision by NaNiwa forces GOM to save face and punish the apparent "disrespect", even though the game was . I certainly wouldn't have played longer than 2 minutes after losing three matches in such a close manner. If I was really pissed, I would have straight up walked out of GOM studio and went home. There's no point in playing a game that doesn't benefit me in any way, especially after practicing for 12 hours a day, 7 days a week. Do any of you idiots realize the insane effort and lifestyle being a progamer requires, and how hard they are hit after losing in game(s) that close? They blame nobody but themselves, too, because that's what the improvement mentality is all about.

By the way, shove your money up your ass because NaNiwa had every right to do what he did, and indirectly, it only happened because the Koreans made a mistake. To make things worse, they remedied their error with... another dumb mistake. Many of you don't have half the character NaNiwa does, and him tossing a meaningless game is not a reason for people to start FIVE threads discussing the nuances of it.

This is why I don't watch GSL.
dolvlo
Profile Joined December 2010
United States99 Posts
December 14 2011 15:29 GMT
#229
Down with GOMtv
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
December 14 2011 15:29 GMT
#230
On December 15 2011 00:15 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2011 00:11 Jibba wrote:
On December 14 2011 23:59 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
On December 14 2011 21:19 Velr wrote:
You don't see football clubs that our allready out of the championship kicking the ball willingly in their own goal or just sit at the sidelines for 90 minutes just because they allready lost.

This needs to be addressed right now:

Did Naniwa kill his own probes? No? Then what he did is in NO WAY comparable to kicking goals into his own net.

Did Naniwa let his probes stand idle until NesTea killed them off? No? Then what he did is in NO WAY comparable to sitting on the sidelines for the entire game.

What he did is comparable to putting almost zero effort into the game, which happens ALL THE TIME in professional sports. You people need to STOP comparing this to things that it is clearly not even close to being. It does not help your position at all.


No, it doesn't. He a-moved probes across the map and didn't touch them. You DO NOT see teams, even b teams, putting in as little effort as Naniwa did. Even in preseason games, they play harder than Naniwa did. As a player, he was essentially idle.

While the OP has some points, it's also full of a bunch of terrible assertions that the OP is in no position to make. The decision is only because of netizen reactions?

You can argue all day about how much effort he did or didn't put in as opposed to how much effort other do or don't put in. But it is all elementary. We all have seen professionals putting in nowhere near enough effort to win. If you want to call one situation of "I don't give a crap" better than another because in one the guy happened to put in more effort at HIDING the fact that he wasn't putting in any effort to WIN, than I find that to be hypocritical.

A 6 pool is an aggressive move that's still capable of winning. A fucking OSL was won with a 5 pool. A probe rush without micro is a 0% maneuver. It will not work, even against a Gold player who counter a-moves. Naniwa's probably did no more than 5 or 10 actions the entire game.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
Lorch
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany3682 Posts
December 14 2011 15:30 GMT
#231
On December 15 2011 00:29 Jibba wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2011 00:15 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
On December 15 2011 00:11 Jibba wrote:
On December 14 2011 23:59 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
On December 14 2011 21:19 Velr wrote:
You don't see football clubs that our allready out of the championship kicking the ball willingly in their own goal or just sit at the sidelines for 90 minutes just because they allready lost.

This needs to be addressed right now:

Did Naniwa kill his own probes? No? Then what he did is in NO WAY comparable to kicking goals into his own net.

Did Naniwa let his probes stand idle until NesTea killed them off? No? Then what he did is in NO WAY comparable to sitting on the sidelines for the entire game.

What he did is comparable to putting almost zero effort into the game, which happens ALL THE TIME in professional sports. You people need to STOP comparing this to things that it is clearly not even close to being. It does not help your position at all.


No, it doesn't. He a-moved probes across the map and didn't touch them. You DO NOT see teams, even b teams, putting in as little effort as Naniwa did. Even in preseason games, they play harder than Naniwa did. As a player, he was essentially idle.

While the OP has some points, it's also full of a bunch of terrible assertions that the OP is in no position to make. The decision is only because of netizen reactions?

You can argue all day about how much effort he did or didn't put in as opposed to how much effort other do or don't put in. But it is all elementary. We all have seen professionals putting in nowhere near enough effort to win. If you want to call one situation of "I don't give a crap" better than another because in one the guy happened to put in more effort at HIDING the fact that he wasn't putting in any effort to WIN, than I find that to be hypocritical.

A 6 pool is an aggressive move that's still capable of winning. A fucking OSL was won with a 5 pool. A probe rush without micro is a 0% maneuver. It will not work, even against a Gold player who counter a-moves. Naniwa's probably did no more than 5 or 10 actions the entire game.


Select workers.
Right click in opponnents base.
A-Move

It's three.
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
December 14 2011 15:38 GMT
#232
He had to build an extra probe too and rally it over.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
HiTeK532
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada171 Posts
December 14 2011 15:39 GMT
#233
Your post had they makings for an actual discussion but then you brought up the naniwa incident anyways my understanding with the GSL invites and MLG exchange program is that you need to apply to be in code A and by reaching X level at MLG you are given priority over people who didn't apply.
GOM is in a position where they can pick and choose what players they want to have competing since it's the biggest tournament to win if they feel like someone is going to disrespect the tournament in anyway they can and as demonstrate by naniwa will refuse to pick them.
I play games not girls
Azhrei16
Profile Joined August 2011
United States284 Posts
December 14 2011 15:41 GMT
#234
I think what happened is, the new way GSL works is two foreigners get invites based on accomplishment. Since Naniwa got his Code S seed revoked, IdrA took his place. Then Sen and Morrow got the two foreigner invites. Atleast that's what it sounds like to me.
EricFartman
Profile Joined April 2010
China76 Posts
December 14 2011 15:45 GMT
#235
Korea deal E-sport best so far, so pls obey their rules and management. if a korean did that, he will get more pressure and punish
Shagg
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland825 Posts
December 14 2011 15:48 GMT
#236
IMO this is the wrong decision and reminds me of Kespa rules, but ofc this helps nothing so dunno why am I even posting lol
"You're a pro or you're a noob. That's life"
Synche
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1345 Posts
December 14 2011 15:50 GMT
#237
The point is they just kicked Naniwa and picked two completely random people to join Code S. Code S is about having the best players in the world. Naniwa earned his spot and Idra and Sen are great players but earned jack shit.
Durp
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada3117 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-14 15:56:18
December 14 2011 15:53 GMT
#238
On December 14 2011 20:18 DystopiaX wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 20:16 Candide wrote:
Lets take into consideration the most recent game ruining claims..

Choya Ladder fixing

Byun/Coca conspiracy to push ESV to a game 3 when coca won 2-0


What happened to them


Yes.... arbitrary popularity contests..

Those were like actual things wrong. What Nani did was BM at best and as far as I can tell there were no rules against probe rushing in the GSL.

And that still has nothing to do with how the invites are chosen.

edit- @ the guy above me: then write a rule stating so. If there was a rule in place, fine. If there wasn't, then IMO it's just wrong to arbitrarily ban a guy based on public reaction.

The problem with having multiple threads on the same topic is that one thread starts discussing what the other has already covered.
For example, the bolded section. This was covered (and is in the OP) of the Naniwa Code-S seed revoked thread.
from that thread:
"Here's the rule being used as justification:
Warning or disqualification
- 경기중에 과격한 행동으로 상대 게이머나 관중들에게 위협을 가할 때
- During a match, a player shall not offend the opponent or audience with abusive behaviours"

This isn't arbitrary. Naniwa, for reasons that are justifiable to him or not, tarnished the sanctity of the game. As a league that markets the games to their audience as the best in the world (most of that audience stays up until the wee hours of the morning might I add) GOM can not afford players just wasting games like that because they don't feel like playing.
There are dozens of players in Korea and around the world that would've killed for even the opportunity Naniwa had, and I believe GOM is in the right to dole out a punishment here.

Historically the Korean scene is pretty severe with their punishments to anything relating to matchfixing/ruining (Byun, Choya, Savior) and Naniwa should've been wiser
SOOOOOooooOOOOooooOOOOoo Many BANELINGS!!
ShoCK77
Profile Joined September 2010
45 Posts
December 14 2011 15:57 GMT
#239
On December 15 2011 00:28 HyTex wrote:
When you make a shit format that allows for meaningless games like this, it's only a manner of time before something like this happens. What if the probe rusher was WhiteRa? Or Sheth? I'm sure the community's opinion would have been different if one of their beloved manner players ragequit.


they wouldnt do something like that and if they did i would have the same opinion as in naniwas case!
m3rciless
Profile Joined August 2009
United States1476 Posts
December 14 2011 16:01 GMT
#240
Just for the record, fuck this anti-sweden shit. Sweden is the second home of esports and theres no reason to generalize at all about this shit.
White-Ra fighting!
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