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On December 14 2011 06:55 TheBanana wrote:
The one good thing that comes out of the Overreaction Olympics is that this will bring more attention, viewers and prestige to anyone of Naniwas future matches.
Naniwa building up Esports!
nope, I don't think I'm ever going to watch naniwa's games unless against a progamer I think I can learn from (aka: how that progamer's build owned naniwa so I can implement it into my own XvP games)
^_________^
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Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahha -breaths- hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Jesus christ this thing has been taken way out of proportion, the game didn't matter to any of them bububu eSports is all I hear haha.
Go Naniwa that wasn't BM no point in playing at all and if you face nestea again where it matters I'm sure you'll deliver good games. Too bad about the other games you almost had them ;( better luck next time! GOGO NANIWA.
Koreans seem way too whiny have lost all respect for them.
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On December 14 2011 06:55 zhurai wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 06:49 stokes17 wrote:On December 14 2011 06:43 SpunXtain wrote:
Naniwa should repay everyone who bought a Blizzard Cup ticket a portion of the money they deserve. Customers expected around 30-40 games, so he owes around 25-33c to each person who bought a $10 ticket. rofl what? Most tournis just don't play games that have no bearing. Its GOM fault for insisting the match be played. If I just lost 3 humiliating wrestling matches that i gave my all and still lost, and then my coach tells me I'm playing a 4th match for funsys.... yea I'd prob be pretty pissed too. Either be mad at GOM for having a bad format (1. airing the4/5th place match. 2. having no reason for the players to care: prize money,etc) or be mad at no1. I totally side with nani's feeling that playing that match would just salting his wounds. wrong. that'll be like going into it KNOWING the format. aka: knowing your "4th match for funsys", if he doesn't agree he doesn't need to accept to go to the tournament.
and if that wrestler was sobbing the whole time, and then got immeadiately pinned or eliminated or w/e it is wrestling ends with. Would you crucify the guy for not manning up and trying harder, for a match that didn't matter, he didn't care about, and didn't want to be apart of?
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On December 14 2011 06:51 Russano wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 06:44 dkream wrote:On December 14 2011 06:31 Russano wrote:On December 14 2011 06:28 dkream wrote:On December 14 2011 04:25 tetrismaan wrote:
If naniwa has to accept the Korean culture, the Koreans should accept a foreigners culture as well. eSport will never be worldwide, if you have to act after one culture.
This is one of those things which makes sports fun.
I just love how naniwa doesn't give a flying fuck of what others thinks of him. Why the hell should he care? If every personality in Starcraft / eSport was the same, why would there even be fanclubs? This is something for the mass. For people who are posting with similar reasoning, in which parts of the world culture are people accepted for being selfish and disrespectful? All cultures at least have similar fundamental: be respectful and fit in. This reasoning is just absurd. What he did is disrespectful to Gom, Nestea and many others and it has nothing to do with accepting 'foreign' culture. The way he acted is just selfish as he is a representative of Quantic Gaming and his sponsors probably was not happy about how the match fanned out. Whoever's bringing up the idea of accepting so called 'foreign' or 'Western' culture into this clearly has no ground to stand on. Because I don't find worker rushing disrespectful, and if I don't, other people don't. I would never have known worker rushing was like the biggest fuck you you could do apparently, before this. That's the entire crux of my argument. Now that I DO know, I certainly won't be worker rushing a GSL tournament anytime soon. IT IS THE WAY HE PRESENTED BEING DISRESPECTFUL. Look at how Nani's one hand is 'unoccupied' and his face while whole thing played out. I think everyone will agree that he gave 0 fuck in the game and that'd be perceived as disrepectful action in any culture to the organizers and his opponent. He obviously did a great job representing his team and all in process. I saw QG hyping the match before it started then haven't seen anything since then. You tell me if that was not selfish on his part as a player of QG. Same argument, I don't find forfeiting a match disrespectful to your opponent. If I had said, "You're not worth my time" and THEN forfeited, I could see this kind of reaction. When Idra forfeited all those IPL matches so he could go sleep for the rest of the tournament, I didn't see the Koreans calling for him to not be a progamer then. What if Naniwa had to go take an exceptionally important bathroom break? At what point does your personal desires outweigh the importance of being forced to play a completely meaningless starcraft game. as for the QXG thing, it sentirely up to them how they take this. This is a shitton of publicity for them, and some schools of thought believe no publicity is bad publicity. If they decide he did them a diservice, they will handle it internally, no input from us required. as i've said many times. If you want to argue about whether forfeits should be allowed or not then we can. But let's not confuse this witht he current absurd argument of it being disrespectful to forfeit only if you don't pretend to be putting in at least a little bit of effort, even if its clear you dojn't give a shit.
The thing is, Naniwa DIDN'T forfeit. Forfeiting a game entails not entering the game at all... What Naniwa did was just a bit of purposeful disrespect... Regardless of his mental state, I feel that he should at least ask Quantic to release a statement on his behalf... a big part of progaming is your image.
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On December 14 2011 06:24 Insane wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 06:14 Utinni wrote:On December 14 2011 06:11 Insane wrote:
I don't really see how this is any worse than the fact that lots of players don't show up for their MLG placement matches after they're eliminated (like the matches that determine whether you got 16th or 17th for example - they're already out of the tournament at that point). No one throws a shitfit over that to my knowledge.
I think a lot of "esports fans" are fucking crazy maniacs, who view this game as some sort of "honorable contest" with precise codes of honor and conduct. Shit, it's a game. I enjoy watching it, and the fact that people can make a living off it (be it via playing, streaming, coaching, whatever) is awesome bananas. But it's still a game; it's not some samurai duel.
Controversy is awesome, and there's pretty much no one in SC2 right now who I think is a cooler contestant than Naniwa - he says what he means, and he cares about winning over manner/portrayal. Despite people talking about how he's not a professional, not properly competing, etc., I think he's the purest competitor there is right now.
Tell that to all the Koreans in Cod S,A,B who hate him right now for throwing the game and disrespecting GSL and the fans at the game. I would if I spoke Korean, but I don't speak it and I doubt anyone cares enough about either that comment or my opinion to translate it for them... You're nuts if you think that was disrespecting "GSL and the fans of the game". It was a game that didn't count for anything, and he didn't want to play it. He did not say "Fuck you", he did not even leave without "gg"ing. He just picked a bad strategy and lost with it in a quick game. Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 06:16 Tula wrote:On December 14 2011 06:11 Insane wrote:
I don't really see how this is any worse than the fact that lots of players don't show up for their MLG placement matches after they're eliminated (like the matches that determine whether you got 16th or 17th for example - they're already out of the tournament at that point). No one throws a shitfit over that to my knowledge.
I think a lot of "esports fans" are fucking crazy maniacs, who view this game as some sort of "honorable contest" with precise codes of honor and conduct. Shit, it's a game. I enjoy watching it, and the fact that people can make a living off it (be it via playing, streaming, coaching, whatever) is awesome bananas. But it's still a game; it's not some samurai duel.
Controversy is awesome, and there's pretty much no one in SC2 right now who I think is a cooler contestant than Naniwa - he says what he means, and he cares about winning over manner/portrayal. Despite people talking about how he's not a professional, not properly competing, etc., I think he's the purest competitor there is right now.
If we have to explain the difference about a run of the mill MLG (note providence as in the national final is different) and the BLIZZARD CUP, which is supposed to be the most prestigous tournament of the year (wether it truly is or not is another discussion, but that is what we are expecting from the name) where only the best of the best are competing against each other, then this discussion makes little sense. No, please do explain it. "Run of the mill MLG" has code S korean players participating. It has hundreds of participants, with tens (hundreds?) of thousands of viewers for the event itself (not for those games specifically I guess). A tournament is a tournament. The fact that there are only good players in it doesn't mean you should be held to a different standard of behavior.
Dude, I don't speak Korean either, I am just telling you what I see translated on the other 2 or 3 threads about this incident. Take a second and read them. They aren't words of joy and happiness, that's for sure. Just telling you how it is. Sorry if you wanna deny the fact they are upset.
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On December 14 2011 06:59 ShatterZer0 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 06:51 Russano wrote:On December 14 2011 06:44 dkream wrote:On December 14 2011 06:31 Russano wrote:On December 14 2011 06:28 dkream wrote:On December 14 2011 04:25 tetrismaan wrote:
If naniwa has to accept the Korean culture, the Koreans should accept a foreigners culture as well. eSport will never be worldwide, if you have to act after one culture.
This is one of those things which makes sports fun.
I just love how naniwa doesn't give a flying fuck of what others thinks of him. Why the hell should he care? If every personality in Starcraft / eSport was the same, why would there even be fanclubs? This is something for the mass. For people who are posting with similar reasoning, in which parts of the world culture are people accepted for being selfish and disrespectful? All cultures at least have similar fundamental: be respectful and fit in. This reasoning is just absurd. What he did is disrespectful to Gom, Nestea and many others and it has nothing to do with accepting 'foreign' culture. The way he acted is just selfish as he is a representative of Quantic Gaming and his sponsors probably was not happy about how the match fanned out. Whoever's bringing up the idea of accepting so called 'foreign' or 'Western' culture into this clearly has no ground to stand on. Because I don't find worker rushing disrespectful, and if I don't, other people don't. I would never have known worker rushing was like the biggest fuck you you could do apparently, before this. That's the entire crux of my argument. Now that I DO know, I certainly won't be worker rushing a GSL tournament anytime soon. IT IS THE WAY HE PRESENTED BEING DISRESPECTFUL. Look at how Nani's one hand is 'unoccupied' and his face while whole thing played out. I think everyone will agree that he gave 0 fuck in the game and that'd be perceived as disrepectful action in any culture to the organizers and his opponent. He obviously did a great job representing his team and all in process. I saw QG hyping the match before it started then haven't seen anything since then. You tell me if that was not selfish on his part as a player of QG. Same argument, I don't find forfeiting a match disrespectful to your opponent. If I had said, "You're not worth my time" and THEN forfeited, I could see this kind of reaction. When Idra forfeited all those IPL matches so he could go sleep for the rest of the tournament, I didn't see the Koreans calling for him to not be a progamer then. What if Naniwa had to go take an exceptionally important bathroom break? At what point does your personal desires outweigh the importance of being forced to play a completely meaningless starcraft game. as for the QXG thing, it sentirely up to them how they take this. This is a shitton of publicity for them, and some schools of thought believe no publicity is bad publicity. If they decide he did them a diservice, they will handle it internally, no input from us required. as i've said many times. If you want to argue about whether forfeits should be allowed or not then we can. But let's not confuse this witht he current absurd argument of it being disrespectful to forfeit only if you don't pretend to be putting in at least a little bit of effort, even if its clear you dojn't give a shit. The thing is, Naniwa DIDN'T forfeit. Forfeiting a game entails not entering the game at all... What Naniwa did was just a bit of purposeful disrespect... Regardless of his mental state, I feel that he should at least ask Quantic to release a statement on his behalf... a big part of progaming is your image.
I'm still operating under the assumption that he asked to forfeit and was denied. SO this was his way of forfeiting without forfeiting. If I ever wanted to forfeit and was told forfeiting isn't actually allowed, a worker rush would be my next step.
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On December 14 2011 06:57 Taug wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 06:53 PanN wrote:On December 14 2011 06:52 Taug wrote:
He should man up after losing three games (his own fault) and play the last damn match. How does gom have a mad format, unless they expected this foreigners to actually lose all 4 games. He should do whatever he feels most comfortable with since he's himself and doesn't get paid to "man up and play a 4th game". It's not about him, he's representing a lot of ppl in case you didnt know. If you think that way, you're probably selfish. Does anyone ever do things for pride and respect instead of just money?
It is about him, sorry. He can do what he wants, he doesn't have to feel like shit for a bunch of whiny chumps if he doesn't want to.
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On December 14 2011 06:59 Russano wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 06:55 zhurai wrote:On December 14 2011 06:49 stokes17 wrote:On December 14 2011 06:43 SpunXtain wrote:
Naniwa should repay everyone who bought a Blizzard Cup ticket a portion of the money they deserve. Customers expected around 30-40 games, so he owes around 25-33c to each person who bought a $10 ticket. rofl what? Most tournis just don't play games that have no bearing. Its GOM fault for insisting the match be played. If I just lost 3 humiliating wrestling matches that i gave my all and still lost, and then my coach tells me I'm playing a 4th match for funsys.... yea I'd prob be pretty pissed too. Either be mad at GOM for having a bad format (1. airing the4/5th place match. 2. having no reason for the players to care: prize money,etc) or be mad at no1. I totally side with nani's feeling that playing that match would just salting his wounds. wrong. that'll be like going into it KNOWING the format. aka: knowing your "4th match for funsys", if he doesn't agree he doesn't need to accept to go to the tournament. and if that wrestler was sobbing the whole time, and then got immeadiately pinned or eliminated or w/e it is wrestling ends with. Would you crucify the guy for not manning up and trying harder, for a match that didn't matter, he didn't care about, and didn't want to be apart of?
unless you have the source of GOM saying that Naniwa told GOM he wouldn't try and he totally doesn't want to play, and GOM said "you still have to play" then your example really is out of context -_-
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never had a problem with naniwa but this is a shame for foreign sc2 programing
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On December 14 2011 06:58 zhurai wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 06:55 TheBanana wrote:
The one good thing that comes out of the Overreaction Olympics is that this will bring more attention, viewers and prestige to anyone of Naniwas future matches.
Naniwa building up Esports! nope, I don't think I'm ever going to watch naniwa's games unless against a progamer I think I can learn from (aka: how that progamer's build owned naniwa so I can implement it into my own XvP games) ^_________^
same, + everyone seems to allin rush him, which i like watching  , that proxy thor attack was sick.
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On December 14 2011 06:51 B.I.G. wrote:
I can imagine how frustrated he must be. He came to this tournament obviously bringing his a game but he got all inned twice and had an unlucky loss once. The dude isnt some clown who purely works for our entertainment, hes a human being who focuses all his time on trying to be the best he can be. Going out like this is just a show of his humanity. Do I think he was right for throwing that game? Hell no. It really wasn't nice for his fans. But I sure as hell dont think he deserves this kind of bashing.
I agree wholeheartedly. I don't understand how all of the people in this topic against naniwa feel so entitled...
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On December 14 2011 07:01 zhurai wrote:
unless you have the source of GOM saying that Naniwa told GOM he wouldn't try and he totally doesn't want to play, and GOM said "you still have to play" then your example really is out of context -_-
Yeah it is a bit. THey may also told him that if he forfeited there would be a penalty of some sort, so this was his way of forfeiting without actually forfeiting.
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On December 14 2011 07:00 Russano wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 06:59 ShatterZer0 wrote:On December 14 2011 06:51 Russano wrote:On December 14 2011 06:44 dkream wrote:On December 14 2011 06:31 Russano wrote:On December 14 2011 06:28 dkream wrote:On December 14 2011 04:25 tetrismaan wrote:
If naniwa has to accept the Korean culture, the Koreans should accept a foreigners culture as well. eSport will never be worldwide, if you have to act after one culture.
This is one of those things which makes sports fun.
I just love how naniwa doesn't give a flying fuck of what others thinks of him. Why the hell should he care? If every personality in Starcraft / eSport was the same, why would there even be fanclubs? This is something for the mass. For people who are posting with similar reasoning, in which parts of the world culture are people accepted for being selfish and disrespectful? All cultures at least have similar fundamental: be respectful and fit in. This reasoning is just absurd. What he did is disrespectful to Gom, Nestea and many others and it has nothing to do with accepting 'foreign' culture. The way he acted is just selfish as he is a representative of Quantic Gaming and his sponsors probably was not happy about how the match fanned out. Whoever's bringing up the idea of accepting so called 'foreign' or 'Western' culture into this clearly has no ground to stand on. Because I don't find worker rushing disrespectful, and if I don't, other people don't. I would never have known worker rushing was like the biggest fuck you you could do apparently, before this. That's the entire crux of my argument. Now that I DO know, I certainly won't be worker rushing a GSL tournament anytime soon. IT IS THE WAY HE PRESENTED BEING DISRESPECTFUL. Look at how Nani's one hand is 'unoccupied' and his face while whole thing played out. I think everyone will agree that he gave 0 fuck in the game and that'd be perceived as disrepectful action in any culture to the organizers and his opponent. He obviously did a great job representing his team and all in process. I saw QG hyping the match before it started then haven't seen anything since then. You tell me if that was not selfish on his part as a player of QG. Same argument, I don't find forfeiting a match disrespectful to your opponent. If I had said, "You're not worth my time" and THEN forfeited, I could see this kind of reaction. When Idra forfeited all those IPL matches so he could go sleep for the rest of the tournament, I didn't see the Koreans calling for him to not be a progamer then. What if Naniwa had to go take an exceptionally important bathroom break? At what point does your personal desires outweigh the importance of being forced to play a completely meaningless starcraft game. as for the QXG thing, it sentirely up to them how they take this. This is a shitton of publicity for them, and some schools of thought believe no publicity is bad publicity. If they decide he did them a diservice, they will handle it internally, no input from us required. as i've said many times. If you want to argue about whether forfeits should be allowed or not then we can. But let's not confuse this witht he current absurd argument of it being disrespectful to forfeit only if you don't pretend to be putting in at least a little bit of effort, even if its clear you dojn't give a shit. The thing is, Naniwa DIDN'T forfeit. Forfeiting a game entails not entering the game at all... What Naniwa did was just a bit of purposeful disrespect... Regardless of his mental state, I feel that he should at least ask Quantic to release a statement on his behalf... a big part of progaming is your image. I'm still operating under the assumption that he asked to forfeit and was denied. SO this was his way of forfeiting without forfeiting. If I ever wanted to forfeit and was told forfeiting isn't actually allowed, a worker rush would be my next step.
That's so silly. Obv you switch to terran and load up scvs and float away. You can subsequently slowly float over and proceed to worker rush or hide in a corner and drag it out just to screw with the opponent. At least that has way more entertainment value, what people are looking for here.
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On December 14 2011 07:03 qwertyindeed wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 06:58 zhurai wrote:On December 14 2011 06:55 TheBanana wrote:
The one good thing that comes out of the Overreaction Olympics is that this will bring more attention, viewers and prestige to anyone of Naniwas future matches.
Naniwa building up Esports! nope, I don't think I'm ever going to watch naniwa's games unless against a progamer I think I can learn from (aka: how that progamer's build owned naniwa so I can implement it into my own XvP games) ^_________^ same, + everyone seems to allin rush him, which i like watching , that proxy thor attack was sick.
Into the build order notebook them builds go!
Yeah, idk I just like collecting strategies and timings to strengthen my own play.
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On December 14 2011 07:01 PanN wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 06:57 Taug wrote:On December 14 2011 06:53 PanN wrote:On December 14 2011 06:52 Taug wrote:
He should man up after losing three games (his own fault) and play the last damn match. How does gom have a mad format, unless they expected this foreigners to actually lose all 4 games. He should do whatever he feels most comfortable with since he's himself and doesn't get paid to "man up and play a 4th game". It's not about him, he's representing a lot of ppl in case you didnt know. If you think that way, you're probably selfish. Does anyone ever do things for pride and respect instead of just money? It is about him, sorry. He can do what he wants, he doesn't have to feel like shit for a bunch of whiny chumps if he doesn't want to.
Yeah it is about him.. about him getting raped. He got raped so bad he whined about playing his last match. 'omg i dont wanna play anymore im so mad i got raped'. cry me a river, build a bridge and get over it and play the last match.
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On December 14 2011 07:05 Russano wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 07:01 zhurai wrote:
unless you have the source of GOM saying that Naniwa told GOM he wouldn't try and he totally doesn't want to play, and GOM said "you still have to play" then your example really is out of context -_- Yeah it is a bit. THey may also told him that if he forfeited there would be a penalty of some sort, so this was his way of forfeiting without actually forfeiting.
Yeah. where's your source.
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On December 14 2011 06:58 zhurai wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 06:55 TheBanana wrote:
The one good thing that comes out of the Overreaction Olympics is that this will bring more attention, viewers and prestige to anyone of Naniwas future matches.
Naniwa building up Esports! nope, I don't think I'm ever going to watch naniwa's games unless against a progamer I think I can learn from (aka: how that progamer's build owned naniwa so I can implement it into my own XvP games) ^_________^
That's a lie.
You're going to watch everyone, and you are going to root for his opponent SO SO hard.
If you remember, that's exactly how Idra gained his popularity. People just forget things like that when something new happens.
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You play in Korea, you play by their rules. You live up to their standards and follow their culture. That is just how it is.
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On December 14 2011 07:05 zhurai wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 07:05 Russano wrote:On December 14 2011 07:01 zhurai wrote:
unless you have the source of GOM saying that Naniwa told GOM he wouldn't try and he totally doesn't want to play, and GOM said "you still have to play" then your example really is out of context -_- Yeah it is a bit. THey may also told him that if he forfeited there would be a penalty of some sort, so this was his way of forfeiting without actually forfeiting. Yeah. where's your source.
I don't have one, this is what happens when you're forced to make conclusions and assumptions with missing information. There's no source that says Naniwa knew this would be considered massively disrespectful to koreans and did it anyways, yet many people are working under that assumption.
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EPT
