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On December 14 2011 06:43 SpunXtain wrote:
Naniwa should repay everyone who bought a Blizzard Cup ticket a portion of the money they deserve. Customers expected around 30-40 games, so he owes around 25-33c to each person who bought a $10 ticket.
rofl what? Most tournis just don't play games that have no bearing. Its GOM fault for insisting the match be played.
If I just lost 3 humiliating wrestling matches that i gave my all and still lost, and then my coach tells me I'm playing a 4th match for funsys.... yea I'd prob be pretty pissed too.
Either be mad at GOM for having a bad format (1. airing the4/5th place match. 2. having no reason for the players to care: prize money,etc) or be mad at no1.
I totally side with nani's feeling that playing that match would just salting his wounds.
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On December 14 2011 06:44 Russano wrote:
if playing entertaining matches was a requirement to play in a tourney, the cheese builds would result in banning, cuz I sure as shit don't want to watch a cannon rush or a stupid marine scv all in. That's an absurd stance to take.
WHOOT??!! People who cheese is always trying to win, and they also micro while cheesing, this was just "I took all my probes and A+Move to enemy's base"
Man, please, think a little at least what you are gonna post, or save your incredible arguments for people who will not think you don't know what the hell is going on
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On December 14 2011 06:44 dkream wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 06:31 Russano wrote:On December 14 2011 06:28 dkream wrote:On December 14 2011 04:25 tetrismaan wrote:
If naniwa has to accept the Korean culture, the Koreans should accept a foreigners culture as well. eSport will never be worldwide, if you have to act after one culture.
This is one of those things which makes sports fun.
I just love how naniwa doesn't give a flying fuck of what others thinks of him. Why the hell should he care? If every personality in Starcraft / eSport was the same, why would there even be fanclubs? This is something for the mass. For people who are posting with similar reasoning, in which parts of the world culture are people accepted for being selfish and disrespectful? All cultures at least have similar fundamental: be respectful and fit in. This reasoning is just absurd. What he did is disrespectful to Gom, Nestea and many others and it has nothing to do with accepting 'foreign' culture. The way he acted is just selfish as he is a representative of Quantic Gaming and his sponsors probably was not happy about how the match fanned out. Whoever's bringing up the idea of accepting so called 'foreign' or 'Western' culture into this clearly has no ground to stand on. Because I don't find worker rushing disrespectful, and if I don't, other people don't. I would never have known worker rushing was like the biggest fuck you you could do apparently, before this. That's the entire crux of my argument. Now that I DO know, I certainly won't be worker rushing a GSL tournament anytime soon. IT IS THE WAY HE PRESENTED BEING DISRESPECTFUL. Look at how Nani's one hand is 'unoccupied' and his face while whole thing played out. I think everyone will agree that he gave 0 fuck in the game and that'd be perceived as disrepectful action in any culture to the organizers and his opponent. He obviously did a great job representing his team and all in process. I saw QG hyping the match before it started then haven't seen anything since then. You tell me if that was not selfish on his part as a player of QG.
Same argument, I don't find forfeiting a match disrespectful to your opponent. If I had said, "You're not worth my time" and THEN forfeited, I could see this kind of reaction. When Idra forfeited all those IPL matches so he could go sleep for the rest of the tournament, I didn't see the Koreans calling for him to not be a progamer then. What if Naniwa had to go take an exceptionally important bathroom break? At what point does your personal desires outweigh the importance of being forced to play a completely meaningless starcraft game.
as for the QXG thing, it sentirely up to them how they take this. This is a shitton of publicity for them, and some schools of thought believe no publicity is bad publicity. If they decide he did them a diservice, they will handle it internally, no input from us required.
as i've said many times. If you want to argue about whether forfeits should be allowed or not then we can. But let's not confuse this witht he current absurd argument of it being disrespectful to forfeit only if you don't pretend to be putting in at least a little bit of effort, even if its clear you dojn't give a shit.
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I can imagine how frustrated he must be. He came to this tournament obviously bringing his a game but he got all inned twice and had an unlucky loss once. The dude isnt some clown who purely works for our entertainment, hes a human being who focuses all his time on trying to be the best he can be. Going out like this is just a show of his humanity. Do I think he was right for throwing that game? Hell no. It really wasn't nice for his fans. But I sure as hell dont think he deserves this kind of bashing.
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I just hope there will be consequences from the Korean side or Naniwa will never learn. If they make clear they do not accept his stunts(none of them) he's no other choice than to grow up or go home.
edit: there's some sweet irony in Naniwa telling Nestea to stop being angry prior to the tournament.
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On December 14 2011 06:51 Sogetsu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 06:44 Russano wrote:
if playing entertaining matches was a requirement to play in a tourney, the cheese builds would result in banning, cuz I sure as shit don't want to watch a cannon rush or a stupid marine scv all in. That's an absurd stance to take. WHOOT??!! People who cheese is always trying to win, and they also micro while cheesing, this was just "I took all my probes and A+Move to enemy's base" Man, please, think a little at least what you are gonna post, or save your incredible arguments for people who will not think you don't know what the hell is going on
You have no idea what the other person said making your statement make no sense.
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He should man up after losing three games (his own fault) and play the last damn match. How does gom have a bad format, unless they expected this foreigners to actually lose all 4 games.
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On December 14 2011 06:52 Taug wrote:
He should man up after losing three games (his own fault) and play the last damn match. How does gom have a mad format, unless they expected this foreigners to actually lose all 4 games.
He should do whatever he feels most comfortable with since he's himself and doesn't get paid to "man up and play a 4th game".
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I'd say this article is spot on.
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I suppose the Korean reaction is something that some Westerners will never understand. There's plenty of bullshit and hypocrisy and screwing around in Korea, but the difference is that when you're supposed to sit straight, shut-up, do your job, and toe the line, even if it's bullshit, you do it. You don't troll the Man.
Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of "u mad bro?" and Reddit-style lulz in Korea too, but they save that stuff for the internet and late-night comedy shows. Pro-Starcraft is a serious business in Korea, and has been for years. In pro-BW, you'll lose the match for typing anything other than gg in chat.
Doesn't matter than the match didn't mean anything. Doesn't matter that a 7probe rush is functionally almost the same as a 6 pool. Yes, it's for appearances, because appearances matter, and if you don't like it, you can leave. If you're playing in a Blizzard-sponsored match by GOMTV, living at the GOM house (or Startale? conflicting accounts), and GOM wants you to play the vs. Nestea match, you toe the line and play. If that sucks for you, don't try to be a progamer in Korea. They don't owe Naniwa anything, he has to adapt to them, not the other way around.
Just watch Artosis at tonight's SOTG. That guy used to be quite a punk in BW, but now he's SC2 establishment, and he's been in Korea for a long time. If you remember his caster vs. player rant, it's clear that he doesn't like the Idra/Huk/Naniwa bad boy persona. There's a guy whose been in the Korean pro-Starcraft scene for a long time, so he'll have plenty to say about respect.
"But what about Idra?" That's actually a decent argument. I don't know why Idra got away with it. The best I can come up with is, he was there first, and he was actually pretty good. But they were never fond of his BM either, and certainly didn't miss him when he left.
Controversial opinion in spoiler. Don't say you weren't warned.
+ Show Spoiler +Is it a racist thing? It's complicated. The Korean casts give "good" foreigners like Jinro or White-Ra plenty of respect, but when it comes to "bad" foreigners, the tone can be a little "what will the crazy Westerner do this time? hahaha..." Idra was basically a useful class clown to kick around. It was cute when it was just him - he was basically harmless. They could carve out a "foreigner BM exception" for Idra. But now there's quite a few possibly competitive foreigners, who could make an impact on the scene, so they are treating them like the Koreans. Meaning, don't screw around, or we'll break your face.
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This article pretty clearly summarizes how they feel about what Naniwa did in Korea in a game where both people were already eliminated. I happen to share that opinion. Naniwa's response was full of "I'm sorry you feel that way, but this is how I feel." He does not seem to have any regard for how other people feel unless it relates to himself. You don't see a lot of people quitting games in tournaments to begin with, and you hardly ever see it in Korea. To not expect this type of backlash and even worse to criticize those people who you have outraged shows a complete lack of respect for Korean and Starcraft culture. People can make excuses for him all they want, it doesn't make what he did any less reprehensible.
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On December 14 2011 06:52 Longshank wrote:
I just hope there will be consequences from the Korean side or Naniwa will never learn. If they make clear they do not accept his stunts(none of them) he's no other choice than to grow up or go home.
Consequence will likely force him to go home, which I don't mind at all.
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On December 14 2011 06:51 Sogetsu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 06:44 Russano wrote:
if playing entertaining matches was a requirement to play in a tourney, the cheese builds would result in banning, cuz I sure as shit don't want to watch a cannon rush or a stupid marine scv all in. That's an absurd stance to take. WHOOT??!! People who cheese is always trying to win, and they also micro while cheesing, this was just "I took all my probes and A+Move to enemy's base" Man, please, think a little at least what you are gonna post, or save your incredible arguments for people who will not think you don't know what the hell is going on
did you even follow the argument I was making before?
The argument made by the other fellow was, if you aren't gonna play entertaining games, you shouldn't be allowed to play in tournaments.
My counter argument is that shitty cheese builds are borning and not entertaining, therefor they should all be banned. Which is absurd, you shouldn't be banned just because nobody wants to watch you play. You can however, be skipped over for other players for invitiationals, which I'm totally fine with lol.
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On December 14 2011 06:49 stokes17 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 06:43 SpunXtain wrote:
Naniwa should repay everyone who bought a Blizzard Cup ticket a portion of the money they deserve. Customers expected around 30-40 games, so he owes around 25-33c to each person who bought a $10 ticket. rofl what? Most tournis just don't play games that have no bearing. Its GOM fault for insisting the match be played. If I just lost 3 humiliating wrestling matches that i gave my all and still lost, and then my coach tells me I'm playing a 4th match for funsys.... yea I'd prob be pretty pissed too. Either be mad at GOM for having a bad format (1. airing the4/5th place match. 2. having no reason for the players to care: prize money,etc) or be mad at no1. I totally side with nani's feeling that playing that match would just salting his wounds.
wrong.
that'll be like going into it KNOWING the format. aka: knowing your "4th match for funsys", if he doesn't agree he doesn't need to accept to go to the tournament.
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The one good thing that comes out of the Overreaction Olympics is that this will bring more attention, viewers and prestige to anyone of Naniwas future matches.
Naniwa building up Esports!
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At least he could played the last game for the honor, trying to show a good game, it is what any player with honor and pride should surely do, but NaniWhine didn't
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Theres a reason why peple like boxer and whitera are respected. What naniwa did is the opposite of what they would have done.
I dont think he meant to disrespect, however he definitly lacked respect.
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On December 14 2011 06:53 YMCApylons wrote:I suppose the Korean reaction is something that some Westerners will never understand. There's plenty of bullshit and hypocrisy and screwing around in Korea, but the difference is that when you're supposed to sit straight, shut-up, do your job, and toe the line, even if it's bullshit, you do it. You don't troll the Man.Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of "u mad bro?" and Reddit-style lulz in Korea too, but they save that stuff for the internet and late-night comedy shows. Pro-Starcraft is a serious business in Korea, and has been for years. In pro-BW, you'll lose the match for typing anything other than gg in chat. Doesn't matter than the match didn't mean anything. Doesn't matter that a 7probe rush is functionally almost the same as a 6 pool. Yes, it's for appearances, because appearances matter, and if you don't like it, you can leave. If you're playing in a Blizzard-sponsored match by GOMTV, living at the GOM house (or Startale? conflicting accounts), and GOM wants you to play the vs. Nestea match, you toe the line and play. If that sucks for you, don't try to be a progamer in Korea. They don't owe Naniwa anything, he has to adapt to them, not the other way around. Just watch Artosis at tonight's SOTG. That guy used to be quite a punk in BW, but now he's SC2 establishment, and he's been in Korea for a long time. If you remember his caster vs. player rant, it's clear that he doesn't like the Idra/Huk/Naniwa bad boy persona. There's a guy whose been in the Korean pro-Starcraft scene for a long time, so he'll have plenty to say about respect. "But what about Idra?" That's actually a decent argument. I don't know why Idra got away with it. The best I can come up with is, he was there first, and he was actually pretty good. But they were never fond of his BM either, and certainly didn't miss him when he left. Controversial opinion in spoiler. Don't say you weren't warned. + Show Spoiler +Is it a racist thing? It's complicated. The Korean casts give "good" foreigners like Jinro or White-Ra plenty of respect, but when it comes to "bad" foreigners, the tone can be a little "what will the crazy Westerner do this time? hahaha..." Idra was basically a useful class clown to kick around. It was cute when it was just him - he was basically harmless. They could carve out a "foreigner BM exception" for Idra. But now there's quite a few possibly competitive foreigners, who could make an impact on the scene, so they are treating them like the Koreans. Meaning, don't screw around, or we'll break your face.
before kespa like dq'd leta for saying "ppp" instead of "pp" or something (though they fixed that now though)
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NANIWA GONNA NANIWA
HATERS GONNA HATE
User was temp banned for this post.
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On December 14 2011 06:53 PanN wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 06:52 Taug wrote:
He should man up after losing three games (his own fault) and play the last damn match. How does gom have a mad format, unless they expected this foreigners to actually lose all 4 games. He should do whatever he feels most comfortable with since he's himself and doesn't get paid to "man up and play a 4th game".
It's not about him, he's representing a lot of ppl in case you didnt know. If you think that way, you're probably selfish. Does anyone ever do things for pride and respect instead of just money?
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EPT
