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On December 14 2011 02:17 Hatorade wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 02:06 Russano wrote:
The absurd thing with these arguments, is that people are upset with HOW naniwa did something, not with WHAT he did. They are just pissy he didn't lie well enough to fool them, or that he put no effort into it. Which is fucking ridiculous. While I'm not angry or upset at him I do think what he did was a bit stupid, and he likely does too now. The easier choice is to just put in the small amount of effort to "lie"(4 gate/proxy/cannon rush etc) out of respect for all the people who paid to watch them play,produce the tournament,cast the tournament etc. I'm sure many people can sympathize not having any motivation to not play a match when there's nothing at stake, but in order to remain professional in the eyes of many he needs to at least put in more effort than he did.
Naniwa isn't required to stroke your or anyone elses ego. You can like him less all you want, but he shouldn't be penalized for it.
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On December 14 2011 02:19 poorcloud wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 02:16 turdburgler wrote:On December 14 2011 02:14 oxxo wrote:On December 14 2011 02:14 Madder wrote:On December 14 2011 02:12 oxxo wrote:
Gotta love the foreigner bias. Complete outrage over what coca did, but a pass and complaints about Korean 'racism' when naniwa does something similar. How are those two situations even fucking comparable? Go read up on the countless threads, dude. How are they not? They both threw games. You are a prime example of what I'm talking about. 1 was worth a code a spot. 1 was worth nothing. It was not worth a code A spot. In fact, it was the qualifier for a tourney for a code A spot.
thats still something tho it gave someone a shot a trying to fight for a code a spot. All that happened with this is one player goes 0-4 and one goes 1-3
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On December 14 2011 02:20 Russano wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 02:17 Hatorade wrote:On December 14 2011 02:06 Russano wrote:
The absurd thing with these arguments, is that people are upset with HOW naniwa did something, not with WHAT he did. They are just pissy he didn't lie well enough to fool them, or that he put no effort into it. Which is fucking ridiculous. While I'm not angry or upset at him I do think what he did was a bit stupid, and he likely does too now. The easier choice is to just put in the small amount of effort to "lie"(4 gate/proxy/cannon rush etc) out of respect for all the people who paid to watch them play,produce the tournament,cast the tournament etc. I'm sure many people can sympathize not having any motivation to not play a match when there's nothing at stake, but in order to remain professional in the eyes of many he needs to at least put in more effort than he did. Naniwa isn't required to stroke your or anyone elses ego. You can like him less all you want, but he shouldn't be penalized for it.
How can they penalize him, he didn't break any rules did he?
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On December 14 2011 02:20 Russano wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 02:17 Hatorade wrote:On December 14 2011 02:06 Russano wrote:
The absurd thing with these arguments, is that people are upset with HOW naniwa did something, not with WHAT he did. They are just pissy he didn't lie well enough to fool them, or that he put no effort into it. Which is fucking ridiculous. While I'm not angry or upset at him I do think what he did was a bit stupid, and he likely does too now. The easier choice is to just put in the small amount of effort to "lie"(4 gate/proxy/cannon rush etc) out of respect for all the people who paid to watch them play,produce the tournament,cast the tournament etc. I'm sure many people can sympathize not having any motivation to not play a match when there's nothing at stake, but in order to remain professional in the eyes of many he needs to at least put in more effort than he did. Naniwa isn't required to stroke your or anyone elses ego. You can like him less all you want, but he shouldn't be penalized for it.
The above poster didn't say anything about his ego or anything about Naniwa having to be penalised.
...
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On December 14 2011 02:19 zachMEISTER wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 02:11 ForevaADrone wrote:Except Nani had already played his "game" You can't compare 90 minutes of live-action sports to a 15-minute video game. He lost 3 close sets, and decided it wasn't worth playing one last, meaningless game. I can, I did, and it is a sensible comparison. You poisoned the well by asserting that the game was "meaningless". The argument I gave is that even if it was "meaningless" (i.e. has no baring on the overall result - amazing that people here think that this makes a game meaningless) Naniwa still had the duty to play it out to his best ability. If you don't think the comparison is apt, then you cannot think that SC2 in Korea is a sport on equal level to football in Europe. Seems bizarre why you would think that given the money and prestige involved. Because he had already played to the best of his ability. If he decided to forfeit, then that's his decision. Whether he 4-gated Nestea or probe-rushed. It was his decision to forfeit. Just because he didn't do it the way you felt was "dutiful" doesn't mean it was insulting or that he should be revoked of his "pro" status.
But he didn't forfeit.Or rather, he forfeited in the most ridiculous and disrespectful manner possible. I agree that he should be free to forfeit if he doesn't want to play the game, but you do this offscreen.
It feels as if he lacks every possible skill involved in human interaction.
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I find it hard to feel angry at Naniwa; things like this just make me feel sorry for him. He clearly struggles to understand interactions and the socially appropriate things to do.
Naniwa just wants so desperately to be liked (look back to his reaction to MLG Providence boos) and has no idea how to bring it about. He probably thought that everyone would think this was funny.
What a depressing end to a painfully depressing group. Good luck, Naniwa.
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On December 14 2011 02:21 ToasteR_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 02:19 poorcloud wrote:On December 14 2011 02:16 turdburgler wrote:On December 14 2011 02:14 oxxo wrote:On December 14 2011 02:14 Madder wrote:On December 14 2011 02:12 oxxo wrote:
Gotta love the foreigner bias. Complete outrage over what coca did, but a pass and complaints about Korean 'racism' when naniwa does something similar. How are those two situations even fucking comparable? Go read up on the countless threads, dude. How are they not? They both threw games. You are a prime example of what I'm talking about. 1 was worth a code a spot. 1 was worth nothing. It was not worth a code A spot. In fact, it was the qualifier for a tourney for a code A spot. thats still something tho it gave someone a shot a trying to fight for a code a spot. All that happened with this is one player goes 0-4 and one goes 1-3
Yes and coca got punished. Naniwa is not punished.
Happy?
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On December 14 2011 02:09 wklbishop wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 02:00 SKYFISH_ wrote:On December 14 2011 01:47 Itsmedudeman wrote:On December 14 2011 01:46 s4life wrote:On December 14 2011 01:46 Licit wrote:
thisisgame is obviously just a bunch of racist cunts. agreed.. This has nothing to do with race and you're a moron if you think so. It's actually so ironic. explain this INSANE backlash over a POINTLESS game and then compare it to how koreans reacted to CoCa's recent actions. CoCa was pressured into giving up his Code S spot and forced into Slayers' B team and then made to "reflect" on it and where do you see CoCa now? Answer, you don't see him. And the thing is, CoCa played a game NOT ON TV so not as many people knew and talked about it at the time. I can't believe people are bringing racism into this.
this doesnt address my question at all.
explain the community reaction.
explain why Naniwa is suddenly the darkest of the dark for throwing away a pointless game, while CoCa, the poor thing, was pressured and is very sorry and HWAITING and all that crap.
the bias is obvious and its based on race and nationality, sorry
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On December 14 2011 02:21 Cocacooh wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 02:20 Russano wrote:On December 14 2011 02:17 Hatorade wrote:On December 14 2011 02:06 Russano wrote:
The absurd thing with these arguments, is that people are upset with HOW naniwa did something, not with WHAT he did. They are just pissy he didn't lie well enough to fool them, or that he put no effort into it. Which is fucking ridiculous. While I'm not angry or upset at him I do think what he did was a bit stupid, and he likely does too now. The easier choice is to just put in the small amount of effort to "lie"(4 gate/proxy/cannon rush etc) out of respect for all the people who paid to watch them play,produce the tournament,cast the tournament etc. I'm sure many people can sympathize not having any motivation to not play a match when there's nothing at stake, but in order to remain professional in the eyes of many he needs to at least put in more effort than he did. Naniwa isn't required to stroke your or anyone elses ego. You can like him less all you want, but he shouldn't be penalized for it. How can they penalize him, he didn't break any rules did he?
That's my point, people are calling for him to lose code S spots or whatnot.
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Wow, its not even such a big deal that they make out of it
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On December 14 2011 02:23 poorcloud wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 02:21 ToasteR_ wrote:On December 14 2011 02:19 poorcloud wrote:On December 14 2011 02:16 turdburgler wrote:On December 14 2011 02:14 oxxo wrote:On December 14 2011 02:14 Madder wrote:On December 14 2011 02:12 oxxo wrote:
Gotta love the foreigner bias. Complete outrage over what coca did, but a pass and complaints about Korean 'racism' when naniwa does something similar. How are those two situations even fucking comparable? Go read up on the countless threads, dude. How are they not? They both threw games. You are a prime example of what I'm talking about. 1 was worth a code a spot. 1 was worth nothing. It was not worth a code A spot. In fact, it was the qualifier for a tourney for a code A spot. thats still something tho it gave someone a shot a trying to fight for a code a spot. All that happened with this is one player goes 0-4 and one goes 1-3 Yes and coca got punished. Naniwa is not punished. Happy?
Yes because he shouldnt be, no rules were broken. Bonehear play? yeah shoulda 4 gated i guess. Broken rules? nope therefore no punishment needed
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The first game I was a big fan of basketball, which has perhaps made me not think this is too big of a deal. Considering basketball teams will tank half of the season (that can be 30+ games) for a better draft position. On the other hand, the basketball teams that do tank still put forward some effort, some product for their diehard fans. It's just real half-assed. That's where Naniwa went wrong, as all he had to do with put forward that equivalent effort with a cannon rush or 4 gate or some silly build that is almost legitimate that had no chance of working.
Naniwa himself realizes this in his interview:
"If I could do it again i would just 4 gate and then people wouldnt have complained, this is no different from what Stephano did against Cloud at Dreamhack [Note: After going 0-2 and being eliminated from his group, Stephano went for two very early pool builds against Cloud. Stephano's match against Cloud had ranking implications for other players in his group], People are just hating because it's me who did it."
More or less accurate. But Naniwa, you have to realize that when you have clouds hanging over your head to begin with, it doesn't take much for it to start to rain on you. You gotta be more careful than most.
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On December 14 2011 02:22 poorcloud wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 02:20 Russano wrote:On December 14 2011 02:17 Hatorade wrote:On December 14 2011 02:06 Russano wrote:
The absurd thing with these arguments, is that people are upset with HOW naniwa did something, not with WHAT he did. They are just pissy he didn't lie well enough to fool them, or that he put no effort into it. Which is fucking ridiculous. While I'm not angry or upset at him I do think what he did was a bit stupid, and he likely does too now. The easier choice is to just put in the small amount of effort to "lie"(4 gate/proxy/cannon rush etc) out of respect for all the people who paid to watch them play,produce the tournament,cast the tournament etc. I'm sure many people can sympathize not having any motivation to not play a match when there's nothing at stake, but in order to remain professional in the eyes of many he needs to at least put in more effort than he did. Naniwa isn't required to stroke your or anyone elses ego. You can like him less all you want, but he shouldn't be penalized for it. The above poster didn't say anything about his ego or anything about Naniwa having to be penalised. ...
Lying to make someone feel better about something is stroking their ego. The penalty thing is for everyone who is calling him to lose Code S spots etc etc....not addressed to him specifically.
I'm said many times go ahead and hate him, but anyone calling for punishment is wrong.
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On December 14 2011 02:23 SKYFISH_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 02:09 wklbishop wrote:On December 14 2011 02:00 SKYFISH_ wrote:On December 14 2011 01:47 Itsmedudeman wrote:On December 14 2011 01:46 s4life wrote:On December 14 2011 01:46 Licit wrote:
thisisgame is obviously just a bunch of racist cunts. agreed.. This has nothing to do with race and you're a moron if you think so. It's actually so ironic. explain this INSANE backlash over a POINTLESS game and then compare it to how koreans reacted to CoCa's recent actions. CoCa was pressured into giving up his Code S spot and forced into Slayers' B team and then made to "reflect" on it and where do you see CoCa now? Answer, you don't see him. And the thing is, CoCa played a game NOT ON TV so not as many people knew and talked about it at the time. I can't believe people are bringing racism into this. this doesnt address my question at all. explain the community reaction. explain why Naniwa is suddenly the darkest of the dark for throwing away a pointless game, while CoCa, the poor thing, was pressured and is very sorry and HWAITING and all that crap. the bias is obvious and its based on race and nationality, sorry
One is a random online tourney that wasn't even watched by that many viewers.
The other is a televised event that is watched by tens and maybe even hundreds of thousands.
That explains the difference in reaction. More people were watching and got pissed off directly.
Does that mean its fair in principle? No. But its fucking fair that the person who fucked up in a way bigger tournament got more flak.
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On December 14 2011 02:21 Cocacooh wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 02:20 Russano wrote:On December 14 2011 02:17 Hatorade wrote:On December 14 2011 02:06 Russano wrote:
The absurd thing with these arguments, is that people are upset with HOW naniwa did something, not with WHAT he did. They are just pissy he didn't lie well enough to fool them, or that he put no effort into it. Which is fucking ridiculous. While I'm not angry or upset at him I do think what he did was a bit stupid, and he likely does too now. The easier choice is to just put in the small amount of effort to "lie"(4 gate/proxy/cannon rush etc) out of respect for all the people who paid to watch them play,produce the tournament,cast the tournament etc. I'm sure many people can sympathize not having any motivation to not play a match when there's nothing at stake, but in order to remain professional in the eyes of many he needs to at least put in more effort than he did. Naniwa isn't required to stroke your or anyone elses ego. You can like him less all you want, but he shouldn't be penalized for it. How can they penalize him, he didn't break any rules did he?
They do what they want. If they want to ban him from code S, they can do it, absolutly. There is no point in arguing about that. GOM will choose if they punish him or not, no one else.
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On December 14 2011 02:25 Russano wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 02:22 poorcloud wrote:On December 14 2011 02:20 Russano wrote:On December 14 2011 02:17 Hatorade wrote:On December 14 2011 02:06 Russano wrote:
The absurd thing with these arguments, is that people are upset with HOW naniwa did something, not with WHAT he did. They are just pissy he didn't lie well enough to fool them, or that he put no effort into it. Which is fucking ridiculous. While I'm not angry or upset at him I do think what he did was a bit stupid, and he likely does too now. The easier choice is to just put in the small amount of effort to "lie"(4 gate/proxy/cannon rush etc) out of respect for all the people who paid to watch them play,produce the tournament,cast the tournament etc. I'm sure many people can sympathize not having any motivation to not play a match when there's nothing at stake, but in order to remain professional in the eyes of many he needs to at least put in more effort than he did. Naniwa isn't required to stroke your or anyone elses ego. You can like him less all you want, but he shouldn't be penalized for it. The above poster didn't say anything about his ego or anything about Naniwa having to be penalised. ... Lying to make someone feel better about something is stroking their ego. The penalty thing is for everyone who is calling him to lose Code S spots etc etc....not addressed to him specifically. I'm said many times go ahead and hate him, but anyone calling for punishment is wrong.
Yeah but i guess he's just saying that it will be smart of Naniwa to play the game out even if he dosen't feel like. Sure Naniwa can choose not to but he just has to bear the consequences (bad reaction from netizens).
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On December 14 2011 02:28 Xalorian wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 02:21 Cocacooh wrote:On December 14 2011 02:20 Russano wrote:On December 14 2011 02:17 Hatorade wrote:On December 14 2011 02:06 Russano wrote:
The absurd thing with these arguments, is that people are upset with HOW naniwa did something, not with WHAT he did. They are just pissy he didn't lie well enough to fool them, or that he put no effort into it. Which is fucking ridiculous. While I'm not angry or upset at him I do think what he did was a bit stupid, and he likely does too now. The easier choice is to just put in the small amount of effort to "lie"(4 gate/proxy/cannon rush etc) out of respect for all the people who paid to watch them play,produce the tournament,cast the tournament etc. I'm sure many people can sympathize not having any motivation to not play a match when there's nothing at stake, but in order to remain professional in the eyes of many he needs to at least put in more effort than he did. Naniwa isn't required to stroke your or anyone elses ego. You can like him less all you want, but he shouldn't be penalized for it. How can they penalize him, he didn't break any rules did he? They do what they want. If they want to ban him from code S, they can do it, absolutly. There is no point in arguing about that. GOM will choose if they punish him or not, no one else.
Yep, this is true. It's their tournament. If they want to punish him they will on whatever grounds they deem worthy of punishment. Rules or no rules.
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Italy420 Posts
On December 13 2011 22:44 Sated wrote:Show nested quote +We swear that calling Naniwa a pro-gamer is overrating him. Even considering that he is young and free-style minded foreign player, he forgot to remember that pro-gamers are meant to show the best games out of their ability to fans. Does he make most of his money from gaming? Yes. Is he therefore a pro-gamer? Yes. This is moronic. It's like saying that calling Mario Balotelli a pro-footballer is "overrating him" because he does stupid shit. NaNiWa is a pro-gamer whether you like his attitude or not.
ahahah u nailed the point.
serie A merda!
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Honestly I don't understand the korean reactions. What Naniwa did was certainly not very cool for the fans but Choya calling him a bastard ? WTF ???
If I had just read the reactions without knowing the facts and had to make a guess I would have said that Nani got caught maphacking or matchfixing.
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On December 14 2011 02:28 poorcloud wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 02:25 Russano wrote:On December 14 2011 02:22 poorcloud wrote:On December 14 2011 02:20 Russano wrote:On December 14 2011 02:17 Hatorade wrote:On December 14 2011 02:06 Russano wrote:
The absurd thing with these arguments, is that people are upset with HOW naniwa did something, not with WHAT he did. They are just pissy he didn't lie well enough to fool them, or that he put no effort into it. Which is fucking ridiculous. While I'm not angry or upset at him I do think what he did was a bit stupid, and he likely does too now. The easier choice is to just put in the small amount of effort to "lie"(4 gate/proxy/cannon rush etc) out of respect for all the people who paid to watch them play,produce the tournament,cast the tournament etc. I'm sure many people can sympathize not having any motivation to not play a match when there's nothing at stake, but in order to remain professional in the eyes of many he needs to at least put in more effort than he did. Naniwa isn't required to stroke your or anyone elses ego. You can like him less all you want, but he shouldn't be penalized for it. The above poster didn't say anything about his ego or anything about Naniwa having to be penalised. ... Lying to make someone feel better about something is stroking their ego. The penalty thing is for everyone who is calling him to lose Code S spots etc etc....not addressed to him specifically. I'm said many times go ahead and hate him, but anyone calling for punishment is wrong. Yeah but i guess he's just saying that it will be smart of Naniwa to play the game out even if he dosen't feel like. Sure Naniwa can choose not to but he just has to bear the consequences (bad reaction from netizens).
I agree, it was a stupid ass move, and it would of been way smarter to have done so. I just don't think he should be punished for it as it was wtihin the rules. GOMTV can do something, however I don't believe they have the appropriate justification, despite having the authority to do so.
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EPT
