EPTAn article on Naniwa from Thisisgame - Page 32
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aderum
Sweden1459 Posts
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grobo
Japan6199 Posts
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HaXXspetten
Sweden15718 Posts
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forsooth
United States3648 Posts
On December 13 2011 22:52 gregnog wrote: Seems like people have already forgotten the Nestea/MVP match fixing at Blizzcon. The 13k/6k/200 larva saved up by Nestea and he lets MVP get a pity win after his loss earlier that day. Double standard. Where was all the drama over that? Why dose the Korean scene love the illusion of competition? This shit again? There is no credible evidence at all to suggest that Nestea threw that game. To compare it to this shit from Naniwa is an insult. Even though I can understand Naniwa's state of mind going into the game, that doesn't excuse throwing it in such fashion. As a professional player and a representative of Quantic, I really think he's got a responsibility to put a good foot forward and conduct himself in a mature manner, especially when he's on a stage as big as this. Instead of seeing the opportunity he had to take his best shot against one of the world's best in Nestea and maybe put on a good show in the process for the fans to enjoy, what he did was basically "Fuck this, I wanna go home", which is a little kid's response. It's dumb, and even though I think some of the reactions out of the Koreans are a bit much, certainly it's justifiable to be at least disappointed. | ||
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ChaosWielder
United States166 Posts
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Russano
United States434 Posts
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skyrunner
371 Posts
On December 14 2011 02:38 poorcloud wrote: I'm not talking about punishments. Punishments should be based on crimes, i agree. I'm talking about the level of reactions, and unfortunately for naniwa, he chose the biggest stage to do something unprofessional (which many others have done). Understandably, he will get the biggest reaction, which is the shitstorm we see on TL and KR communities now. That's why i put "punishment", i did not mean literal punishment. Just seeing the community backlash is big enough to count as punishment, not to talk about this article asking for them to remove his code a seed and what not. If someone does something minor but alot of people see it then it would not be a shitstorm. But if, say naniwa, would do something completely not ok and bm (or whatever) in a tourny that no one watched, then yes it would be a fucking shitstorm. It's like that whole gus guy and ipl stuff that went down. Not that big tournie afaik, but it sure generated alot of drama. And that's what im saying stephano did worse stuff at tournaments in the same league as far as viewers, and no one effing cared that much. | ||
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fush
Canada563 Posts
On December 14 2011 02:37 4of8 wrote: I would have done the same, the game was meaningless and a waste of time. The reaction of the korean scene is ridiculous. End of story. showmatches are meaningless, yet people watch them. football teams still play out their games at the end of the season when they're lying midtable, but they're more or less meaningless as well. they're all idiots based on your logic. | ||
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poorcloud
Singapore2748 Posts
On December 14 2011 02:45 skyrunner wrote: That's why i put "punishment", i did not mean literal punishment. Just seeing the community backlash is big enough to count as punishment, not to talk about this article asking for them to remove his code a seed and what not. If someone does something minor but alot of people see it then it would not be a shitstorm. But if, say naniwa, would do something completely not ok and bm (or whatever) in a tourny that no one watched, then yes it would be a fucking shitstorm. It's like that whole gus guy and ipl stuff that went down. Not that big tournie afaik, but it sure generated alot of drama. And that's what im saying stephano did worse stuff at tournaments in the same league as far as viewers, and no one effing cared that much. Well stephano is the "best player in the world" so more people are willing to close an eye. Naniwa has a notorious track record, so people are a lot more quick in jumping onto him. I seriously just wishes he gets a good mentor/coach to stop him from doing such stupid things ever again. | ||
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Nakama
Germany584 Posts
On December 14 2011 02:37 Russano wrote: If you don't care about winning the match, it doesn't matter whether you probe rush or cannon rush. Sure one has a higher chance of winning the game, but when your objective isn't winning the game, it doesn't add any more weight to your choice. If he had cannon rushed or 4 gated, people would o gone oh well, guess he didn't really give a shit. People are just angry he didn't mask not giving a shit about them ENOUGH. Nice that u know how other ppl will act =) and even then ur argument is flawed. Yes if he could hide is intention ppl wouldn´t be that much angry and now? only cause u can fool ppl about ur intention doesn´t make the intention right or does it ? | ||
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Xalorian
Canada433 Posts
On December 14 2011 02:38 skyrunner wrote: Actually they make a living playing the game, so yes they are progamers. And they do get some monetary gain for it, even if it isn't salary. Can't believe progamer mean anything different in korea. The concept of being a proffessional in any field or sport has to be the same all over the world. So if the term "progamer" doesn't mean the same in korea. Please tell me what does it mean? And when they say that naniwa isn't a progamer... OK, so what is he? It does't matter if he is not a progamer int their book, the world and naniwa will go on as before, just some koreans won't bestow some holy title on him. They make a living from it, but that's not why they call themself pro-gamer. It's hard to explain, it's just cultural... but that's how it is. Maybe i'm wrong, but that's how a korean explained it to me. For them, it have nothing to do about money most of the time. They just want to be the best, they don't care about the income if they can play and not die of starvation. That's what the article meant, that was what I was refering to, not about actual word definition. | ||
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Slardar
Canada7596 Posts
If he did this in an MLG Consolation match fine, but this was on a main stage in a BLIZZARD invitational cup. Even if he doesn't respect anyone, it's Professor T he's playing on TV. I would at least give it my A Game. | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
If the tournament staff didn't made themself save against such a situation they are at fault. (players have to agree to play the game out even if it won't affect anything or else will face a penalty) But i generally hate overreactions that happen afterwards, because the majority didn't like it. Fix it for the next time. Its basically just telling the players be nice or else ... and then save. Anyway hope Naniwa catches himself again or it will end up like in germany. | ||
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Russano
United States434 Posts
On December 14 2011 02:44 ChaosWielder wrote: It's his right to do this, but even teams in basketball when down many points don't give up. I'm drawn, but it isn't professional--and that's what e-sports desires. He's not "killing e-sports", but I don't suppose it does any favors. Yeah, but they do half ass it. While not the best, I did get a laugh out of the probe rush, as did quite a bit of the audience, and I know moletrap and khaldor did as well. I certinaly don't think Naniwa deserves praise for it, but I don't think he should be bashed for it either. It's not like this entire tournament revolved around thsi game. We saw a bunch of games, and it just happens that 1 was pretty damn lame. People just blew it up into something it wasn't. | ||
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chadus
Canada31 Posts
I think this is probably one of the biggest hurdles for professional gaming to overcome in order for it to be more mainstream for a wider audience. It just comes with the territory to some extent because the average age of pro gamers is fairly young. | ||
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fush
Canada563 Posts
On December 14 2011 02:43 aderum wrote: I like how people would be fine if he had just 4gated, but not when he did this. It would still be same mentality from Nani but it would make people feel better. Thats just really sad. kinda like showing courtesy in front of a someone you don't like in a public setting rather than just giving them the finger and walking off - potentially causing a shitstorm. just because this game was meaningless doesn't give naniwa a free pass to throw a little tantrum and give his best "i don't give a fuck" act. criticism from the korean scene may be a bit harsh, but it's not as if the reason for the criticism isn't justified. | ||
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trias_e
United States520 Posts
They make a living from it, but that's not why they call themself pro-gamer. It's hard to explain, it's just cultural... but that's how it is. Maybe i'm wrong, but that's how a korean explained it to me. For them, it have nothing to do about money most of the time. They just want to be the best, they don't care about the income if they can play and not die of starvation. Well, there's two commonly used meanings to professional. The first means that you make your living from the activity. The second: "c (1) : characterized by or conforming to the technical or ethical standards of a profession (2) : exhibiting a courteous, conscientious, and generally businesslike manner in the workplace " When people tell you to act professionally, they general mean the second version. | ||
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poorcloud
Singapore2748 Posts
On December 14 2011 02:48 Nakama wrote: Nice that u know how other ppl will act =) and even then ur argument is flawed. Yes if he could hide is intention ppl wouldn´t be that much angry and now? only cause u can fool ppl about ur intention doesn´t make the intention right or does it ? You always have to tell some white lies especially if your in a position of pubic prominence. Take liquid players for example, do you ever think that they wouldn't feel frustrated in chasing lost causes and just forfeit the games? But they don't and play it out. Its all about public image + professionalism especially if we want to make E-sports more legitimate. | ||
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mordk
Chile8385 Posts
On December 14 2011 02:48 Xalorian wrote: They make a living from it, but that's not why they call themself pro-gamer. It's hard to explain, it's just cultural... but that's how it is. Maybe i'm wrong, but that's how a korean explained it to me. For them, it have nothing to do about money most of the time. They just want to be the best, they don't care about the income if they can play and not die of starvation. That's what the article meant, that was what I was refering to, not about actual word definition. This whole, "professional" thing... I really didn't know people associated it with money lol. It's a pretty strange concept to me, I always associated the word with something more than money. Being a pro in anything is an attitude, a way of life imo. Nothing about money, that's just a sideliner. I mean.. it's what you dedicate your life to, whether you live off it or not. | ||
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sOvrn
United States678 Posts
They live and breathe esports and seeing their respect for the profession of starcraft gave me a new respect for them. This isn't just a game for them, this isn't about one player's vanity - it really is for the fans. When I used to hear those cheesy korean lines of "i will try to show my best games for the fans" I kind of just cynically dismissed it, but damn man these people really care for it and I'm starting to think maybe that's why western esports isn't as huge as in the east, it's because we don't care enough. Only thing I do know for sure is that if Naniwa wants to remain in korea among the best, he better do some serious apologizing. On another note, even if he couldn't win the tournament at hand, a revenge match between nestea and him after MLG was well in order and that he threw it away like that really just does seem disrespectful not only for the fans that wanted to see the game, but for the whole process of professional starcraft. What a let down. | ||
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