EPTNo tourney should have completely pointless matches. It's literally one of the most idiotic things to do. If you're going to show outrage towards a player for throwing a match, at least make sure the match matters more than a ladder game.
An article on Naniwa from Thisisgame - Page 33
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hmunkey
United Kingdom1973 Posts
No tourney should have completely pointless matches. It's literally one of the most idiotic things to do. If you're going to show outrage towards a player for throwing a match, at least make sure the match matters more than a ladder game. | ||
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Russano
United States425 Posts
On December 14 2011 02:48 Nakama wrote: Nice that u know how other ppl will act =) and even then ur argument is flawed. Yes if he could hide is intention ppl wouldn´t be that much angry and now? only cause u can fool ppl about ur intention doesn´t make the intention right or does it ? I do know. Are you gonna sit there, and tell me, that if Naniwa just 4 gated, people would of given a shit other then going LOLOL typical naniwa all in? My point is, he's not required to try his hardest, and people don't try ALL THE FUCKING TIME. I'm saying people are hypocrites because they pick this case to be mad about, when there have been many other instances just like this. If you think people should never be allowed to forfeit a match if they so wanted (which people are allowed to do by the way). Then that's a different argument, completely unreleated to whether he should be arbitrarily punished for this. | ||
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Oreo7
United States1647 Posts
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GeNeSiDe
United Kingdom354 Posts
I think the "punishment" will come via his reputation being further darkened, other teams will be hesistant to take him etc. Whether you admit it or not how would you feel if you paid to go to the studio, went and got a drink getting ready for epic NaNiWa v nestea and you saw this? Even watching the VOD my first thought was "lame". Beating someone with a probe/drone/scv rush is the most BM, disrespectful thing you can do in SC because to win with it you have to be superior to your opponent in terms of micromanagement seeing as how he has more workers. NaNi didn't even bother to micro, just 1aed into Nestea's main. He might as well have stood on a chair, got his ass out, mooned the crowd and stormed out while Nestea was killing his probes. If you look at the replies from Korean teams there's only a few who haven't expressed a backlash of negative input and I wouldnt be suprised to see a statement or formal apology being forced by his team. To draw a fair comparison, do you remember when Mario Balotelli tried to do that roulette-backheel against Galaxy and ended up having a huge blowout with his manager and didn't play for AGES. Here's the link Its a very similar circumstance, a friendly game FOR THE FANS that noone cared about, but by doing this ridiculous move(and failing, if NaNi had won he would be heralded as the second jesus) displays a lack of professionalism, which is why these players play for the teams they do and get paid what they do. It doesn't matter if nothing is at stake the fact is that beyond the actual competition there is a show that must go on despite how immature you might feel. Having played sports at a professional level I remember the backlash when my team decided to not show up to the final event of the season because we had already qualified to be bumped up to the next division. We were fined the entry fee for the tournament as well as receiving the bottom seed for our new division. Read this excerpt from his interview: Why did you probe rush in the final game? Let us know your reasons. My mindset was broken after the game against MMA, I left my booth and just thought about all that happened for 30 minutes before it was my turn to play again, I thought there is nothing at stake since neither me or Nestea can advance, and I know that unless I have something to play for I can't perform my best. I just felt like it wouldn't satisfy the fans at all with playing half hearted. Do you think players owe fans a minimum level of effort each game? Do you believe paying GSL viewers deserve to watch a full match? As I said, with nothing at stake people can't show their best games, I dont think it would satisfy people who bought GSL viewership to see the best games in the world . And they clearly wouldn't have gotten their expectations met. He actually contradicts himself; his whole justification is by saying he didn't have his mind right and wouldn't play his best so he didn't want to dissapoint his fans by playing poorly. Then I take the next sentence as EXTREMELY insulting "I DONT THINK IT WOULD SATISFY PEOPLE WHO BOUGHT GSL VIEWERSHIP TO SEE THE BEST GAMES IN THE WORLD, AND THEY CLEARLY WOULDNT HAVE GOTTEN THEIR EXPECTATIONS MET". What does that mean? So us fans are so "demanding" that his answer was to give us nothing but a pathetic white flag? I would rather see Naniwa play a half-hearted game against his "rival" Nestea(I say that because of Providence, I'd say its akin to iDra/MC, and there were some harsh words thrown on both sides) and lose rather than forfeiting a game that I think alot of the crowd and viewers would have been looking forward to. I was. All in all I believe NaNi will regret this as it will effect his likelyhood to be invited to special events and will close alot of doors for him, particularly in Korea. I do feel bad for him as it is pretty clear from seeing his body language in interviews and his behaviour he is an Asberger's patient or similar social disorders and simply does not understand the consequences of his actions. | ||
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Russano
United States425 Posts
On December 14 2011 02:54 hmunkey wrote: Nani acted like a prick, but it doesn't even matter. No tourney should have completely pointless matches. It's literally one of the most idiotic things to do. If you're going to show outrage towards a player for throwing a match, at least make sure the match matters more than a ladder game. This is one of the problems with these kinds of systems. When you take the primary condition of winning out of the eqation. Secondary objectives like getting the game over with, can sometimes become the primary objective. So you always run the risk of a shitty or weird game when you have meaningless games. | ||
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consumption
United States24 Posts
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poorcloud
Singapore2748 Posts
On December 14 2011 02:50 Russano wrote: Yeah, but they do half ass it. While not the best, I did get a laugh out of the probe rush, as did quite a bit of the audience, and I know moletrap and khaldor did as well. I certinaly don't think Naniwa deserves praise for it, but I don't think he should be bashed for it either. It's not like this entire tournament revolved around thsi game. We saw a bunch of games, and it just happens that 1 was pretty damn lame. People just blew it up into something it wasn't. People blow things up everywhere (figurative btw) in the world. Not everyone can be as easy going as you. Naniwa did something that many people vehemently disapproved of, no surprise about the shitstorm. | ||
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IMoperator
4476 Posts
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Usagi
Spain1647 Posts
On December 14 2011 02:47 fush wrote: showmatches are meaningless, yet people watch them. football teams still play out their games at the end of the season when they're lying midtable, but they're more or less meaningless as well. they're all idiots based on your logic. Finishing 9th or finishing 12th can mean a lot (of money) in many leagues. | ||
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TBone-
United States2309 Posts
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poorcloud
Singapore2748 Posts
On December 14 2011 02:54 Oreo7 wrote: overreaction, as per normal for the korean community. still very dissapoint of nani well tl has 3 threads about this as well so lets not make it seem like only the korean community overreacts  | ||
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dsousa
United States1363 Posts
Naniwa must scare the crap out of Korean society, they are weak to BM. The reaction he provoked is priceless. | ||
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Russano
United States425 Posts
On December 14 2011 02:56 poorcloud wrote: People blow things up everywhere (figurative btw) in the world. Not everyone can be as easy going as you. Naniwa did something that many people vehemently disapproved of, no surprise about the shitstorm. I am very easy going, and I've said MANY MANY times, that if you don't want to like him because of this, then you dont' have to. The basic social contract of the world, is that if you are a douche people wont' like you. However there aren't special punishments like removing code S spots you earned, just because your a douchebag, if you didn't actually break rules. | ||
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Zeon0
Austria2995 Posts
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GeNeSiDe
United Kingdom354 Posts
On December 14 2011 02:57 Usagi wrote: Finishing 9th or finishing 12th can mean a lot (of money) in many leagues. Beating Nestea on his home turf would have been incredible for Nani's career, I don't think effort should be based on reward. At the end of the day, he was PAID to play the event and would have been PAID more to win it. So Blizz PAID him to go 0-2 and then baby out of his last game? Does a DJ stop playing an hour early because he hates the music he has been asked to play and can't give the "best performance" for the audience? No. And DJ's make far less in 1 night then what Naniwa got for playing 3 games of starcraft(trust me, i am one). the least he could have done was played out the game. | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
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Russano
United States425 Posts
On December 14 2011 02:56 GeNeSiDe wrote: . Read this excerpt from his interview: He actually contradicts himself; his whole justification is by saying he didn't have his mind right and wouldn't play his best so he didn't want to dissapoint his fans by playing poorly. Then I take the next sentence as EXTREMELY insulting What does that mean? So us fans are so "demanding" that his answer was to give us nothing but a pathetic white flag? I would rather see Naniwa play a half-hearted game against his "rival" Nestea(I say that because of Providence, I'd say its akin to iDra/MC, and there were some harsh words thrown on both sides) and lose rather than forfeiting a game that I think alot of the crowd and viewers would have been looking forward to. I was. All in all I believe NaNi will regret this as it will effect his likelyhood to be invited to special events and will close alot of doors for him, particularly in Korea. I do feel bad for him as it is pretty clear from seeing his body language in interviews and his behaviour he is an Asberger's patient or similar social disorders and simply does not understand the consequences of his actions. It's not hypocritical of him. He figured that a probe rush and some shitty half assed game were equal in his eyes. It's a matter of opinion about how you viewed the game. I certinaly prefered seeing the probe rush over seeing his FFE into 2 base collosus all in for the 99000th time. | ||
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Al Bundy
7257 Posts
This tournament was organized by Blizzard and GomTV - trying to find the King of the Kings of 2011. This was not an online tournament with a petty prize pool. Not just inside Korea but there are many viewers who paid to watch this tournament. This tournament was a special 1st year anniversary of launching Starcraft 2 tournaments for the fans. I like the way he put emphasis on the meaning of this tournament. In this particular case this is all about the context. Had naniwa done this in a 50$ online tournament, it would not have been such a big deal. | ||
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poorcloud
Singapore2748 Posts
On December 14 2011 03:00 dsousa wrote: I LOL'd at the "Naniwa does not have qualifications to be a pro gamer". Naniwa must scare the crap out of Korean society, they are weak to BM. The reaction he provoked is priceless. Naniwa just has no tact in his BM. All seem like hissy fits. Can someone check, but it sure seemed like FBH's BM was well received by koreans. | ||
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howLiN
Portugal1676 Posts
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