EPTWith regards to OPs disclaimer, thank you for the translation
-- everything I say about hating this post is not directed at you.An article on Naniwa from Thisisgame - Page 35
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Tortious_Tortoise
United States944 Posts
With regards to OPs disclaimer, thank you for the translation -- everything I say about hating this post is not directed at you. | ||
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fush
Canada563 Posts
On December 14 2011 03:05 Bajsgrodan wrote: "Average TL:user": "Waaahhh waaahhhhh ahhhhhhhh Uhhuhuhuhuhuh....... waaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh...esports....waaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh waaaaaaaaaaaaaah waaaaaaaaah" get it? grow up, and to the Koreans: "We dont share the same values in the west, diffrent culture. Deal with it" so you say that, then in the very same post piss on the korean response and their culture. something doesn't add up here........ | ||
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hmunkey
United Kingdom1973 Posts
On December 14 2011 02:39 Cyro wrote: "People have different reactions. From "If Naniwa gets GSL seed again from GomTV, I will strongly complain", "Greg Fields is an angel compared to Naniwa", "This is outrageous". Most fans blame Naniwa for his immature behaviour." I dont understand, whats the big deal? People "throw games" all the time, didnt IdrA 6pool in a GSL game before? I might be mixing it up with another tournament, but one could even argue that nestea threw both his game vs MVP at blizzcon and his game vs HuK last time they met in Code S, infact it is far worse in that situation because he was far ahead and then lost for no real reason. Is it really worth all of this shit because one guy probe rushed another guy when they were both out of the tournament anyway and it would have no effect on rankings? Im sure you have a CHANCE to win probe rushing vs zerg because of shield regeneration and the slight rage advantage on the probe weapon (not sure if it was tested, but always felt that way) but overall my opinion doesnt really matter. Naniwa might have made a mistake in korean culture, but if so, and if he accepts it as that, it is just that, a small mistake. What the hell are people getting so upset about? Worse shit has happened, worse shit will happen, and its just a probe rush in a game that was completely irrelvant. The only difference really is that Naniwa made it obvious he didn't care. Usually, players try to cover that up under the guise of an all-in, cheese, or otherwise stupid strategy. That's pretty much it. | ||
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aebriol
Norway2066 Posts
On December 14 2011 02:14 oxxo wrote: How are they not? They both threw games. You are a prime example of what I'm talking about. Coca threw a game in the first round in a different tournament that had nothing to do with gomtv. He played out the games for entertainment, rather than not showing up. The outcome would be exactly the same if he didn't show up and didn't impact any other players. Naniwa threw a game in a gomtv tournament where the rules explicity state that you don't throw games. Here as well, the games didn't matter. Imho, what Coca did was less serious, and less of a thing gomtv should punish since it wasn't part of their tournaments. This was more serious since it's their tournament AND he broke a rule. In neither case did the outcome matter to any other players or change their chances. But of course they are somewhat comparable ... there are however some small differences between them. | ||
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cive
Canada370 Posts
On December 14 2011 03:05 Bajsgrodan wrote: "Average TL:user": "Waaahhh waaahhhhh ahhhhhhhh Uhhuhuhuhuhuh....... waaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh...esports....waaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh waaaaaaaaaaaaaah waaaaaaaaah" get it? grow up, and to the Koreans: "We dont share the same values in the west, diffrent culture. Deal with it" Naniwa is at Korea, practicing at a Korean team house and participating in a Korean tournament. Your view on Naniwa's action is not justified. | ||
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Reaper9
United States1724 Posts
 ) and he just says nope, and walks out on you. You win your match. Hooray for you...on your birthday of all things. Your destined "rival" shit talking you. Then he just walks away. I don't think many people would be pleased. | ||
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Russano
United States434 Posts
On December 14 2011 03:10 KeKeSynergy wrote: Well then he's not fit to be called a pro gamer. Sure he is, he's good enough that he wins. That fits A defintion of progamer. Whether his attitutde prevents him from getting teams/sponsors is entirely up to said team/sponsors. Not calling him a progamer is absolutely absurd as he clearly is one. Whether he has goods sportsmanship or not is a different argument, one you'd have a great argument for. Being a douchebag very very very rarely gets you banished from a profession. It might prevent you from working with some people, but not all, he still has a place as a progamer. | ||
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Tek_
Canada55 Posts
On December 14 2011 03:12 aebriol wrote: Coca threw a game in the first round in a different tournament that had nothing to do with gomtv. He played out the games for entertainment, rather than not showing up. The outcome would be exactly the same if he didn't show up and didn't impact any other players. Naniwa threw a game in a gomtv tournament where the rules explicity state that you don't throw games. Here as well, the games didn't matter. Imho, what Coca did was less serious, and less of a thing gomtv should punish since it wasn't part of their tournaments. This was more serious since it's their tournament AND he broke a rule. In neither case did the outcome matter to any other players or change their chances. But of course they are somewhat comparable ... there are however some small differences between them. Your post is totally inaccurate. Maybe read up on these situations and the "rules" you seem to think exist before commenting. | ||
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Agnosthar
631 Posts
On December 14 2011 02:54 hmunkey wrote: Nani acted like a prick, but it doesn't even matter. No tourney should have completely pointless matches. It's literally one of the most idiotic things to do. If you're going to show outrage towards a player for throwing a match, at least make sure the match matters more than a ladder game. Can we please stop using this absolutely pathetic argument that no tournament should have inconsequential matches. Please actually use some intelligence to think about the implications. This was a tournament that people were paying to watch, some did so in part to watch NaNiwa vs NesTea. For GOM to not bother playing that match, just because it wouldn't have affected who qualified would be unfair to the people who paid believing they would see that match. Take Football as an example, (if people keep calling SC2 e-sports, then it's not an irrelevant comparison) in the Europa group stages there are often matches between teams where neither can qualify for the next round. However, I don't see these teams letting the opponents score, which is akin to what NaNiwa did. They have a duty to the paying fans and sponsors to at least try to win. Nobody here is asking for NaNiwa to use his best strategy or a build he plans to use in the future. He could have just done a 1 or 2 base timing that actually had a possibility of working. If NaNiwa had any sense of pride, or if he had any common sense, he would have at least tried a strategy that might have worked, hell even a 2 gate proxy. | ||
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rd
United States2586 Posts
On December 14 2011 03:12 aebriol wrote: Coca threw a game in the first round in a different tournament that had nothing to do with gomtv. He played out the games for entertainment, rather than not showing up. The outcome would be exactly the same if he didn't show up and didn't impact any other players. Naniwa threw a game in a gomtv tournament where the rules explicity state that you don't throw games. Here as well, the games didn't matter. Imho, what Coca did was less serious, and less of a thing gomtv should punish since it wasn't part of their tournaments. This was more serious since it's their tournament AND he broke a rule. In neither case did the outcome matter to any other players or change their chances. But of course they are somewhat comparable ... there are however some small differences between them. What rules? GSL rules or ANYTHING GomTV related? Because GSL certainly doesn't have pointless matches that hope the players are willing to throw the game in a more entertaining way. | ||
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
On December 14 2011 03:08 VPCursed wrote: why should we expect naniwa/nestea to show there strategies in a game that wont matter? how insulting is that to the pro gamers? very imho I've had my fun, time for one last comment before ditching these threads: No progamer considers getting a televised match in front of tens of thousands of viewers (and a live audience) an insult. This is especially true when the players are considered rivals, and the storyline is something that tens of influential people have been hyping up for days. It should be a great honour to play one of the most anticipated games of the day. But imho these threads have run their course, everything has already been said, and people are posting things that have already been written. I suggest seriously considering reading through the 4 (ish) threads before posting anything new, because it's likely a redundant post. | ||
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legaton
France1763 Posts
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hmunkey
United Kingdom1973 Posts
On December 14 2011 03:17 Tyrant0 wrote: What rules? GSL rules or ANYTHING GomTV related? Because GSL certainly doesn't have pointless matches that hope the players are willing to throw the game in a more entertaining way. That's the whole point. No good tourney has pointless matches and any tourney that does should be at blame, not the players they force to play those matches. | ||
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Usagi
Spain1647 Posts
On December 14 2011 03:08 1st_Panzer_Div. wrote: Including this league. I paid for my ticket, I at least expect some effort. And by not trying here, you can lose subscribers and then you lose money to give out in the future, including to give out Code A spots to foreigners. After Naniwa claimed he wanted to move to the StarTale house because they treat the game more seriously he follows it up with this farce. How do you expect to be treated like a professional when you don't treat Esports like a profession? I agree with MC that maybe some people need to take notes from WhiteRa. If throwing a game cost Coca his Code S spot; why should Naniwa be treated differently? Yes, MVP team twitter's outright insulted him. I dont think that ius a good behaviour either. | ||
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Sandster
United States4054 Posts
Naniwa trains in Korea, with Korean progamers. The game was played on Korean soil, with Korean fans in attendance. Every single pro-gamer will always mention two things in interviews: 1) I will try my best to win (or I will put on good games), and 2) I am thankful to my fans. Every. Single. One. It's the culture there. The pros understand how difficult it is to become a progamer, and how fortunate it is for them to have fans who stand by them, and how many thousands of people would break a limb to be in their position. Naniwa essentially slapped every progamer in the face by doing this, including his friends and teammates. He has permanently insulted all of his fans in the country. Do I personally care? Not really, I just feel bad that he has trouble understanding other people's perspectives. | ||
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grobo
Japan6199 Posts
On December 14 2011 03:17 legaton wrote: Well, with Naniwa going 0-4 on a slightly worst pool than Stephano (2-2), it seems to me it is clear now who's the better player. I think now Stephano can claim the title of best foreigner. Get your bullshit out of here, this isn't the place to argue about who's the better player between stephano and nani. Completely irrelevant. | ||
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Russano
United States434 Posts
On December 14 2011 03:08 KeKeSynergy wrote: We don't but he was playing on the Koreans turf. He could've atleast tried to be a pro gamer. People like you need to grow up. and he did try. He tried until it didn't matter anymore, he went 0-3 and was done. Just because he didn't play 1 match doesn't mean he's somehow unfit to be a progamer. Do you also believe IdrA is unfit just because he wanted to nap for more important matches, rather then play a match that didn't matter and possibly lose future ones? Is stephano unfit because he didn't want to play against Sen when he had the choice? That's just a stupid argument. | ||
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Bleak
Turkey3059 Posts
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rd
United States2586 Posts
On December 14 2011 03:16 Agnosthar wrote: Can we please stop using this absolutely pathetic argument that no tournament should have inconsequential matches. Please actually use some intelligence to think about the implications. This was a tournament that people were paying to watch, some did so in part to watch NaNiwa vs NesTea. For GOM to not bother playing that match, just because it wouldn't have affected who qualified would be unfair to the people who paid believeing they would see that match. Take Football as an example, (if people keep calling SC2 e-sports, then it's not an irrelevant comparison) in the Europa group stages there are often matches between teams where neither can qualify for the next round. However, I don't see these teams letting the opponents score, which is akin to what NaNiwa did. They have a duty to the paying fans and sponsors to at least try to win. Nobody here is asking for NaNiwa to use his best strategy or a build he plans to use in the future. He could have just done a 1 or 2 base timing that actually had a possibility of working. If NaNiwa had any sense of pride, or if he had any common sense, he would have at least tried a strategy that might have worked, hell even a 2 gate proxy. You aren't using intelligence. Naniwa was pissed and already lost. 99.9% of players would be let out but instead he's told to throw a match in a more interesting way before he ACTUALLY loses. Not his fault. Tournament's fault. Don't ever expect players; or ANYONE you don't control do what you want. If the tournament didn't have inconsequential matches this wouldn't have happened in the first place; nor would it ever happen. | ||
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GeNeSiDe
United Kingdom354 Posts
1. To play out the groups to have REAL table results rather than just so and so advance. In World Cup, if two teams go 0-2 they still play each other. It doesn't matter for any other reason but my point #2. 2. To entertain the fans, who are the REASON this is all happening. BC has 10 sets per group, my first thought was "so much starcraft to watch, YAY!" Even if it doesn't matter sets should be played out, if your a progamer your halfhearted game should be a quick cheese or something of the like. The whole point of this is I'm sure there's MANY players who have faced this situation before in bigger or smaller circumstances. The difference between Nani and REAL PROS is that a true professional can elevate past his own personal emotions and not let the public see their effects in such a blatant and disrespectful way, NaNiWa obviously can't. The right thing to do would have been to play out the match half-heartedly. As he said himself, it didn't matter anyway. And yes culturally Asian cultures are very much built upon respect and this shows a clear lack of respect for GOM, Blizzard and the SC2 fans. After his incidents in the past I bet Nani is just a spoiled kid who thinks everyone should bow down to him just because he is good at a video game. GROW UP | ||
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