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On December 14 2011 03:11 hmunkey wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 02:39 Cyro wrote:
"People have different reactions. From "If Naniwa gets GSL seed again from GomTV, I will strongly complain", "Greg Fields is an angel compared to Naniwa", "This is outrageous". Most fans blame Naniwa for his immature behaviour."
I dont understand, whats the big deal? People "throw games" all the time, didnt IdrA 6pool in a GSL game before? I might be mixing it up with another tournament, but one could even argue that nestea threw both his game vs MVP at blizzcon and his game vs HuK last time they met in Code S, infact it is far worse in that situation because he was far ahead and then lost for no real reason.
Is it really worth all of this shit because one guy probe rushed another guy when they were both out of the tournament anyway and it would have no effect on rankings? Im sure you have a CHANCE to win probe rushing vs zerg because of shield regeneration and the slight rage advantage on the probe weapon (not sure if it was tested, but always felt that way) but overall my opinion doesnt really matter.
Naniwa might have made a mistake in korean culture, but if so, and if he accepts it as that, it is just that, a small mistake. What the hell are people getting so upset about? Worse shit has happened, worse shit will happen, and its just a probe rush in a game that was completely irrelvant. The only difference really is that Naniwa made it obvious he didn't care. Usually, players try to cover that up under the guise of an all-in, cheese, or otherwise stupid strategy. That's pretty much it.
the difference is that nestea wasted 20 minutes of my life before he threw his games, atleast naniwa just wasted 2 minutes.
(and to be honest, i find all this drama quite funny, so im glad he didnt cannon rush/4 gate instead)
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On December 14 2011 03:15 Russano wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 03:10 KeKeSynergy wrote:On December 14 2011 03:07 Russano wrote:On December 14 2011 03:05 KeKeSynergy wrote:On December 14 2011 03:00 dsousa wrote:
I LOL'd at the "Naniwa does not have qualifications to be a pro gamer".
Naniwa must scare the crap out of Korean society, they are weak to BM. The reaction he provoked is priceless.
Scared? Naniwa is disrespectful. Why do people call him a progamer if he isn't going to put his heart out on every game? It's a shame. If koreans were scared would Naniwa have lost 4 games that day? Stop being so immature. You do realize Naniwa is considered one of the most obsessive about winning in meaningful ways players that this scene has right? He just happens to not give a shit about games that he doesn't feel are legitimately competitve and played for a reason. Well then he's not fit to be called a pro gamer. Sure he is, he's good enough that he wins. That fits A defintion of progamer. Whether his attitutde prevents him from getting teams/sponsors is entirely up to said team/sponsors. Not calling him a progamer is absolutely absurd as he clearly is one. Whether he has goods sportsmanship or not is a different argument, one you'd have a great argument for. Being a douchebag very very very rarely gets you banished from a profession. It might prevent you from working with some people, but not all, he still has a place as a progamer.
Naniwa was paid to even play in this tourney. He could've ATLEAST put some effort into every game he plays. Fans are paying alot money to watch him play. He could've done it for the fans. Thats being professional.
and what i bolded..Be a douchebag to your manager see if you don't get fired from your job. He's getting paid to play the game atleast he could've showed some respect to Quantic gaming.
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On December 14 2011 03:18 hmunkey wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 03:17 Tyrant0 wrote:On December 14 2011 03:12 aebriol wrote:On December 14 2011 02:14 oxxo wrote:On December 14 2011 02:14 Madder wrote:On December 14 2011 02:12 oxxo wrote:
Gotta love the foreigner bias. Complete outrage over what coca did, but a pass and complaints about Korean 'racism' when naniwa does something similar. How are those two situations even fucking comparable? Go read up on the countless threads, dude. How are they not? They both threw games. You are a prime example of what I'm talking about. Coca threw a game in the first round in a different tournament that had nothing to do with gomtv. He played out the games for entertainment, rather than not showing up. The outcome would be exactly the same if he didn't show up and didn't impact any other players. Naniwa threw a game in a gomtv tournament where the rules explicity state that you don't throw games. Here as well, the games didn't matter. Imho, what Coca did was less serious, and less of a thing gomtv should punish since it wasn't part of their tournaments. This was more serious since it's their tournament AND he broke a rule. In neither case did the outcome matter to any other players or change their chances. But of course they are somewhat comparable ... there are however some small differences between them. What rules? GSL rules or ANYTHING GomTV related? Because GSL certainly doesn't have pointless matches that hope the players are willing to throw the game in a more entertaining way. That's the whole point. No good tourney has pointless matches and any tourney that does should be at blame, not the players they force to play those matches.
Any professional Sports event has "pointless" matches. The whole point of them is that they matter depending on results. They shouldn't be axed and they shouldnt be thrown/taken lightly.
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I hope they ban him from competing in Korea for atleast 2 years.
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who cares if Naniwa threw the game, he didn't want to play it, so what. why penalize him for that it was his choice and didn't affect anyone else. He wasn't in the best mindset from the previous games, so it wasn't out of the blue, you can't penalize him for being human, he was upset and made a decision.
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On December 14 2011 03:07 Russano wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 03:05 KeKeSynergy wrote:On December 14 2011 03:00 dsousa wrote:
I LOL'd at the "Naniwa does not have qualifications to be a pro gamer".
Naniwa must scare the crap out of Korean society, they are weak to BM. The reaction he provoked is priceless.
Scared? Naniwa is disrespectful. Why do people call him a progamer if he isn't going to put his heart out on every game? It's a shame. If koreans were scared would Naniwa have lost 4 games that day? Stop being so immature. You do realize Naniwa is considered one of the most obsessive about winning in meaningful ways players that this scene has right? He just happens to not give a shit about games that he doesn't feel are legitimately competitve and played for a reason.
No, but I do realize Naniwa is considered one of the most bm and lack of professionalism in this scene.
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On December 14 2011 03:20 GeNeSiDe wrote:
The whole point of these "pointless matches".
1. To play out the groups to have REAL table results rather than just so and so advance.
In World Cup, if two teams go 0-2 they still play each other. It doesn't matter for any other reason but my point #2.
2. To entertain the fans, who are the REASON this is all happening.
BC has 10 sets per group, my first thought was "so much starcraft to watch, YAY!"
Even if it doesn't matter sets should be played out, if your a progamer your halfhearted game should be a quick cheese or something of the like. The whole point of this is I'm sure there's MANY players who have faced this situation before in bigger or smaller circumstances. The difference between Nani and REAL PROS is that a true professional can elevate past his own personal emotions and not let the public see their effects in such a blatant and disrespectful way, NaNiWa obviously can't.
The right thing to do would have been to play out the match half-heartedly. As he said himself, it didn't matter anyway.
And yes culturally Asian cultures are very much built upon respect and this shows a clear lack of respect for GOM, Blizzard and the SC2 fans. After his incidents in the past I bet Nani is just a spoiled kid who thinks everyone should bow down to him just because he is good at a video game. GROW UP
lol, Naniwa is far from a spoiled kid.
from liquipedia:
"NaNiwa faced a lot of personal problems during his Warcraft 3 career. He briefly touched upon this subject in an interview with Gravitas Gaming. NaNiwa explained how personal issues, including being kicked out of home and school, built up an anger inside of him which he took out against opposing players."
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On December 14 2011 03:21 Soma.bokforlag wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 03:11 hmunkey wrote:On December 14 2011 02:39 Cyro wrote:
"People have different reactions. From "If Naniwa gets GSL seed again from GomTV, I will strongly complain", "Greg Fields is an angel compared to Naniwa", "This is outrageous". Most fans blame Naniwa for his immature behaviour."
I dont understand, whats the big deal? People "throw games" all the time, didnt IdrA 6pool in a GSL game before? I might be mixing it up with another tournament, but one could even argue that nestea threw both his game vs MVP at blizzcon and his game vs HuK last time they met in Code S, infact it is far worse in that situation because he was far ahead and then lost for no real reason.
Is it really worth all of this shit because one guy probe rushed another guy when they were both out of the tournament anyway and it would have no effect on rankings? Im sure you have a CHANCE to win probe rushing vs zerg because of shield regeneration and the slight rage advantage on the probe weapon (not sure if it was tested, but always felt that way) but overall my opinion doesnt really matter.
Naniwa might have made a mistake in korean culture, but if so, and if he accepts it as that, it is just that, a small mistake. What the hell are people getting so upset about? Worse shit has happened, worse shit will happen, and its just a probe rush in a game that was completely irrelvant. The only difference really is that Naniwa made it obvious he didn't care. Usually, players try to cover that up under the guise of an all-in, cheese, or otherwise stupid strategy. That's pretty much it. the difference is that nestea wasted 20 minutes of my life before he threw his games, atleast naniwa just wasted 2 minutes. (and to be honest, i find all this drama quite funny, so im glad he didnt cannon rush/4 gate instead)
Can't believe people are still saying nestea threw the games away. Nestea got overwhelmed by the pressure. Heck, MVP did the same nukes to Xigua in WCG and they worked equally well. Please stop accusing Nestea of throwing the game.
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On December 14 2011 03:22 GeNeSiDe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 03:18 hmunkey wrote:On December 14 2011 03:17 Tyrant0 wrote:On December 14 2011 03:12 aebriol wrote:On December 14 2011 02:14 oxxo wrote:On December 14 2011 02:14 Madder wrote:On December 14 2011 02:12 oxxo wrote:
Gotta love the foreigner bias. Complete outrage over what coca did, but a pass and complaints about Korean 'racism' when naniwa does something similar. How are those two situations even fucking comparable? Go read up on the countless threads, dude. How are they not? They both threw games. You are a prime example of what I'm talking about. Coca threw a game in the first round in a different tournament that had nothing to do with gomtv. He played out the games for entertainment, rather than not showing up. The outcome would be exactly the same if he didn't show up and didn't impact any other players. Naniwa threw a game in a gomtv tournament where the rules explicity state that you don't throw games. Here as well, the games didn't matter. Imho, what Coca did was less serious, and less of a thing gomtv should punish since it wasn't part of their tournaments. This was more serious since it's their tournament AND he broke a rule. In neither case did the outcome matter to any other players or change their chances. But of course they are somewhat comparable ... there are however some small differences between them. What rules? GSL rules or ANYTHING GomTV related? Because GSL certainly doesn't have pointless matches that hope the players are willing to throw the game in a more entertaining way. That's the whole point. No good tourney has pointless matches and any tourney that does should be at blame, not the players they force to play those matches. Any professional Sports event has "pointless" matches. The whole point of them is that they matter depending on results. They shouldn't be axed and they shouldnt be thrown/taken lightly.
No one cares about football except the people that care about football. Because FOOTBALL has it, SC2 MUST have it. What else does football have that SC2 should have? It's completely illogical of Football to have inconsequential matches just as it is SC2; it doesn't matter how many more people approve of it.
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On December 14 2011 03:20 GeNeSiDe wrote:
The whole point of these "pointless matches".
1. To play out the groups to have REAL table results rather than just so and so advance.
In World Cup, if two teams go 0-2 they still play each other. It doesn't matter for any other reason but my point #2.
Just you don't see it doesn't mean it couldn't happen. It's very very difficult for an ENTIRE team to all not give a shit. OFten times in those types of games you will see quite a few players not really exerting themselves. Which is often why those kinds of games the teams use it as a chance for lesser known players to get playing or practice time. When you have a team of 1, its so very easy to give up as its soley your decision, and ahve your whole "team" quitting. If this was a GSTL type match, even if it didn't matter, I'm sure Naniwa would of put more efforit into it soley for the sake of it being a team situation. When its just about yourself its very easy to give up as the ramifications are much less servere.
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Well atleast they like idra more now.
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On December 14 2011 03:22 canikizu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 03:07 Russano wrote:On December 14 2011 03:05 KeKeSynergy wrote:On December 14 2011 03:00 dsousa wrote:
I LOL'd at the "Naniwa does not have qualifications to be a pro gamer".
Naniwa must scare the crap out of Korean society, they are weak to BM. The reaction he provoked is priceless.
Scared? Naniwa is disrespectful. Why do people call him a progamer if he isn't going to put his heart out on every game? It's a shame. If koreans were scared would Naniwa have lost 4 games that day? Stop being so immature. You do realize Naniwa is considered one of the most obsessive about winning in meaningful ways players that this scene has right? He just happens to not give a shit about games that he doesn't feel are legitimately competitve and played for a reason. No, but I do realize Naniwa is considered one of the most bm and lack of professionalism in this scene.
Yes. But its absurd to say he's not a progamer because he's BM. He's clearly one of the most disrespectful and BM players we have on the big stage. He's also very very clearly.....a progamer...
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On December 14 2011 03:22 NDsOdapOp wrote:
who cares if Naniwa threw the game, he didn't want to play it, so what. why penalize him for that it was his choice and didn't affect anyone else. He wasn't in the best mindset from the previous games, so it wasn't out of the blue, you can't penalize him for being human, he was upset and made a decision.
We already freaking answered this question. The people who care are the ones who paid him to play, and who paid to watch him play. There doesn't need to be a GSL punishment; the negative press he gets from this and not being invited to future tournaments will be enough. It's the Terrell Owens effect, except I'm pretty sure Koreans wouldn't react favorably to their own TO.
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On December 14 2011 03:00 Russano wrote:
However there aren't special punishments like removing code S spots you earned, just because your a douchebag, if you didn't actually break rules.
There can be, if the tournament or league has rules that require good sportsmanship.
Anyway, at the Blizzcon afterparty in the Hilton lounge, I walked up to Naniwa, who was standing idly in a corner, alone, and said to him "Hey, thanks for being a great player and giving us foreigners someone to cheer for." He looked at me like I was from outer space and said nothing. Not a smile, not a "thank you," absolutely nothing at all. He was probably tired and upset about being knocked out of the tournament earlier in the day, and I immediately left him to himself, but it was, frankly, completely bizarre, and he was the only one of several pros I spoke to at that event who didn't seem happy to hear a few words of support.
It would be inappropriate to characterize his personality based on that incident, but based on the sum total of the stories, the guy's certainly turned inward in a way that most people aren't.
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On December 14 2011 03:19 Russano wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 03:08 KeKeSynergy wrote:On December 14 2011 03:05 Bajsgrodan wrote:
"Average TL:user":
"Waaahhh waaahhhhh ahhhhhhhh Uhhuhuhuhuhuh.......
waaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh...esports....waaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh
waaaaaaaaaaaaaah waaaaaaaaah"
get it? grow up, and to the Koreans:
"We dont share the same values in the west, diffrent culture. Deal with it"
We don't but he was playing on the Koreans turf. He could've atleast tried to be a pro gamer. People like you need to grow up. and he did try. He tried until it didn't matter anymore, he went 0-3 and was done. Just because he didn't play 1 match doesn't mean he's somehow unfit to be a progamer. Do you also believe IdrA is unfit just because he wanted to nap for more important matches, rather then play a match that didn't matter and possibly lose future ones? Is stephano unfit because he didn't want to play against Sen when he had the choice? That's just a stupid argument.
You clearly don't belong in this. Just shut up you're like that one annoying ex-girlfriend that no one gives a shit about. That kid clearly says the Koreans and the West have different values and culture. Well guess what punk? He was playing on the Koreans turf at least respect their culture instead of shitting all over it. Impudent Punk. You're the one making this a stupid argument.
User was warned for this post
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On December 14 2011 03:22 grudgeStar wrote:
I hope they ban him from competing in Korea for atleast 2 years.
Are you kidding. He has constantly put up good results and is one of the best foreign players out there, not to mention that things like this have happened far worst and more frequently elsewhere, but simple because it was in Korea it was blown out of proportion. And you want to ban him from the biggest Starcraft tournament for 2 years because he made a discussion when he was upset and probably not thinking straight. How can you blame him for being demoralized, he had lost all his previous games, he had nothing to fight for, sure it would have been nice if he played the match, but you have to respect the fact that he is human.
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The guy who has probably spent the most time in Korea, wants to train in Korea because he thinks it's the best place, still doesn't get Korea. Ironic.
Yeah it was just one game, but perception is everything.
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Koreans are so high up their asses with whole respect yet they blew everything out of proportions. They are actually trolls on so many occasions. If Korean would do probe rush we wouldn't here anything. But since this was Evil Naniwa - Evil foreigner - he should be banned punished and whole lot of different things.
I've been watching SC2 outside of Korea alot. Weekly tournaments in EU are really great value and are as much entertaining as watching GomTV. For me if Koreans would close and cut off from rest of the world it would make no change. I dont like their culture and i don't like they way they try to enforce it on other people.
I haven't heard of scandal as big as setting up matches in SC:BW outside of Korea. So maybe they shouldn't act suddenly like probe rushing is disrespectful.
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On December 14 2011 03:08 KeKeSynergy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 03:05 Bajsgrodan wrote:
"Average TL:user":
"Waaahhh waaahhhhh ahhhhhhhh Uhhuhuhuhuhuh.......
waaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh...esports....waaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh
waaaaaaaaaaaaaah waaaaaaaaah"
get it? grow up, and to the Koreans:
"We dont share the same values in the west, diffrent culture. Deal with it"
We don't but he was playing on the Koreans turf. He could've atleast tried to be a pro gamer. People like you need to grow up.
Heres the deal, broken down really simply:
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The game did not matter for any of the two players.
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Nani won't pretend it matters because he is too much of a notgiveafucker.
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Nestea togheter with the Korean nation cries over some sportsmanship ideal that apparently is very important, (mind you the eastern culture is very diffrent from our western one. They have older more konservative values. To fail in public is a great shame [high suiciderates among celebrities])
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Meanwhile nani is busy eating Knackebrod and not giving a fuck.
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On December 14 2011 03:26 Sandster wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 03:22 NDsOdapOp wrote:
who cares if Naniwa threw the game, he didn't want to play it, so what. why penalize him for that it was his choice and didn't affect anyone else. He wasn't in the best mindset from the previous games, so it wasn't out of the blue, you can't penalize him for being human, he was upset and made a decision. We already freaking answered this question. The people who care are the ones who paid him to play, and who paid to watch him play. There doesn't need to be a GSL punishment; the negative press he gets from this and not being invited to future tournaments will be enough. It's the Terrell Owens effect, except I'm pretty sure Koreans wouldn't react favorably to their own TO.
When you pay to watch a tournament, you aren't just paying to watch one player, you are paying to watch the whole thing. There is no guarantee that every game will be super awesome and epic. Remember first couple seasons of GSL, should people ask for a refund and whine just because they paid for the games and the quality of the games was terrible?
People are just overreacting (including Koreans) and trying to find another branch that they can stick their frustration (and sometimes hate) for.
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EPT
