EPTI realize the odds of that happened are pretty low, but a five or ten percent chance of success is certainly higher than "cannot possibly work."
An article on Naniwa from Thisisgame - Page 38
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iamahydralisk
United States813 Posts
I realize the odds of that happened are pretty low, but a five or ten percent chance of success is certainly higher than "cannot possibly work." | ||
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Lysenko
Iceland2128 Posts
On December 14 2011 03:32 Russano wrote: I agee, if he said....fuck you nestea and left, and broke sportsmanship rules, go ahead and ban him from every playing SC2 again, I dont' give a shit. But there aren't rules against probe rushing, and if they decide to add them, then they can ban him if he does it again. If the GOM folks wanted to make an issue out of this, they could certainly use sportsmanship rules to do it, since what constitutes bad sportsmanship is most likely entirely at their discretion, and it sounds like at least the Korean community found it disrespectful. That said, who knows whether they'll take any kind of action based on it? | ||
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Sakray
France2198 Posts
On December 13 2011 22:36 CryingPoo wrote: what we are sure of is that there shouldn't be a chance of Naniwa getting seeded into GSL again. Well, he got a seed by GomTV months ago, am I right ? Are you talking about this, or about his Code S spot after last MLG ? I'm a bit lost, has he played in Code S yet ? | ||
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zestzorb
Thailand776 Posts
On December 14 2011 03:37 Tyrant0 wrote: GSL has no pointless matches. Have you ever seen someone throw a match that wasn't because a player DIDN'T want to win money/prestige in the GSL? No incentive to win = no quality games. The format is stupid, no doubt. But GOM wouldn't prefer Naniwa acting like that anyway, would they? | ||
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Hatorade
299 Posts
On December 14 2011 02:20 Russano wrote: Naniwa isn't required to stroke your or anyone elses ego. You can like him less all you want, but he shouldn't be penalized for it. First words in my post are that I'm not angry or upset at him, so I don't know why you think I like him less. I didn't say anything about a penalty in my post either. Did you quote the wrong person? My point was that this is going to look unprofessional and if he just 4 gated he would have been fine, he even said in his own interview if he were to do it over that he would have. | ||
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Nadarath
98 Posts
On December 14 2011 03:30 Pr0wler wrote: Go in Germany and act like this, then see what will happen. Germany is considered west , right ? This is not a matter of cultural differences, its a matter of professionalism. Also to the argument "It's gom's fault. There shouldn't be meaningless matches." : Meaningless matches exist even in football World Cup(biggest sports event in the world), but no one throws matches away by doing wacky strats. I didn't like Naniwa in first place , now I'm just indifferent about him... Some random guy from Sweden. Sorry GOMTV Blizzard Cup is nowhere near World Cup. You do not represent your country per se. You represent your self and your team. | ||
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Sandster
United States4054 Posts
On December 14 2011 03:29 Bleak wrote: When you pay to watch a tournament, you aren't just paying to watch one player, you are paying to watch the whole thing. There is no guarantee that every game will be super awesome and epic. Remember first couple seasons of GSL, should people ask for a refund and whine just because they paid for the games and the quality of the games was terrible? People are just overreacting (including Koreans) and trying to find another branch that they can stick their frustration (and sometimes hate) for. I'll even quote myself. You may not care, but you're not the only fan watching these games. Any Korean pro that did what Naniwa did will immediately be suspended from his team and permanently lose all of his fans. Most of them can't even FATHOM doing what Naniwa did, because it's just so absurd. It's not even hard to understand this; just read some interviews, and you'll see the words that repeatedly pop up are related to "honor" and "privilege" of playing the game for the fans. On December 14 2011 03:18 Sandster wrote: I have no vested interest in how Naniwa does, but this was completely tactless. Naniwa trains in Korea, with Korean progamers. The game was played on Korean soil, with Korean fans in attendance. Every single pro-gamer will always mention two things in interviews: 1) I will try my best to win (or I will put on good games), and 2) I am thankful to my fans. Every. Single. One. It's the culture there. The pros understand how difficult it is to become a progamer, and how fortunate it is for them to have fans who stand by them, and how many thousands of people would break a limb to be in their position. Naniwa essentially slapped every progamer in the face by doing this, including his friends and teammates. He has permanently insulted all of his fans in the country. Do I personally care? Not really, I just feel bad that he has trouble understanding other people's perspectives. | ||
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Ponchey
Sweden89 Posts
From GOM's PoV, they want to attract more viewers with quality games. Throwing games doesn't support their cause. So throw the matches if you'd like but don't whine if GOM bans you for two years. Yeah, but from a "getting more viewers" perspective. Do you think more or less people will tune in to watch Naniwa's Code S matches after this? Do you think more or less viewers in total would tune in if they banned Naniwa for 2 years? I know one viewer they would lose with such a move. | ||
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Soma.bokforlag
Sweden448 Posts
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Sandster
United States4054 Posts
On December 14 2011 03:40 Ponchey wrote: Yeah, but from a "getting more viewers" perspective. Do you think more or less people will tune in to watch Naniwa's Code S matches after this? Do you think more or less viewers in total would tune in if they banned Naniwa for 2 years? I know one viewer they would lose with such a move. Yeah, the TO effect. If you're a manager, do you want him on your team? If you're a player, do you want to play with him? Train with him? Help him prepare? | ||
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Angel_
United States1617 Posts
On December 14 2011 03:37 Nadarath wrote: I'm not gonna deny my hate. Also I never stated that I don't care about other cultures. But other cultures like Koreans should learn to understand Western culture. Thing should be mutual. Yet from what I see - it only works one way. We need to respect Koreans why they do their stuff and we should not say a word. Also if You really think that doing a probe rush is disrespectful to Korean society - then I really think you are going to way out of proportions with this. And that is where all my hate comes from. please tell me it's not your opinion that only giving a real effort when there's some direct monetary gain is your example of "Western culture that koreans should understand". i hope he is penalized in some way. he is not a professional. that is not how a professional is supposed to act. and i hope people wake up and realize that there is a standard we should expect from our players and eachother, and not tolerate this kind of shit when it happens. or at the very least, not excuse it. | ||
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1Eris1
United States5797 Posts
On December 14 2011 03:38 iamahydralisk wrote: Hmm... this article is really bad honestly. The entire point that the writer is trying to make is invalidated because he claims that a worker rush cannot work, and that's a complete and utter lie. If Nestea had been 6 or 7 pooling, it would've been hard countered by Nani's worker rush. I realize the odds of that happened are pretty low, but a five or ten percent chance of success is certainly higher than "cannot possibly work." Wish people would stop this, "he was countering 6 pool bullshit". If you're six pooling and you see his workers come you cancel your pool and build 3 drones, do the easiest micro in the world till they pop, and win. Honestly use your fucking brains | ||
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rd
United States2586 Posts
On December 14 2011 03:38 zestzorb wrote: The format is stupid, no doubt. But GOM wouldn't prefer Naniwa acting like that anyway, would they? That's GOM's fault for overlooking this issue, not Naniwa's who was the player stuck in it. | ||
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Russano
United States434 Posts
On December 14 2011 03:38 Lysenko wrote: If the GOM folks wanted to make an issue out of this, they could certainly use sportsmanship rules to do it, since what constitutes bad sportsmanship is most likely entirely at their discretion, and it sounds like at least the Korean community found it disrespectful. That said, who knows whether they'll take any kind of action based on it? I agree, its up to them, however it would set a terrible precedent, as things like manner mules...etc are disrespectful, and blowing them out of poportion and making code S bans over them would be pretty terrible, don't you think? Hell, naniwa even threw out the GG, it's not like he made it personal or something. | ||
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zestzorb
Thailand776 Posts
On December 14 2011 03:40 Ponchey wrote: Yeah, but from a "getting more viewers" perspective. Do you think more or less people will tune in to watch Naniwa's Code S matches after this? Do you think more or less viewers in total would tune in if they banned Naniwa for 2 years? I know one viewer they would lose with such a move. Pretty interesting. If they bans Naniwa they would lose some foreign fans for sure, but if they keep him there might be some reaction from korean fans? | ||
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ticki
56 Posts
Edit: It's like playing a soccer game representing your country (USA v England or some shit) and not giving a shit because it's a friendly game. | ||
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iamahydralisk
United States813 Posts
On December 14 2011 03:42 1Eris1 wrote: Wish people would stop this, "he was countering 6 pool bullshit". If you're six pooling and you see his workers come you cancel your pool and build 3 drones, do the easiest micro in the world till they pop, and win. Honestly use your fucking brains I didn't say he WAS countering it. I'm saying this entire article is invalid because it makes a claim that is factually wrong in every possible way. You can't dispute that. | ||
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tlin
25 Posts
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zestzorb
Thailand776 Posts
On December 14 2011 03:43 Tyrant0 wrote: That's GOM's fault for overlooking this issue, not Naniwa's who was the player stuck in it. The system is bad and GOM should do something about it, but that doesn't mean Naniwa is right. He lacks professionalism and doesn't fit in with any tournament looking for professional competition. edit: think about it this way. If that was Boxer in Nani's shoes, what do you think he would do? And which action GOM would prefer, Boxer's or Nani's? | ||
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poorcloud
Singapore2748 Posts
On December 14 2011 03:37 Nadarath wrote: I'm not gonna deny my hate. Also I never stated that I don't care about other cultures. But other cultures like Koreans should learn to understand Western culture. Thing should be mutual. Yet from what I see - it only works one way. We need to respect Koreans why they do their stuff and we should not say a word. Also if You really think that doing a probe rush is disrespectful to Korean society - then I really think you are going to way out of proportions with this. And that is where all my hate comes from. I'm really tired of all this arguments. Please stop talking about probe rushing. Its about throwing the game away in the most unprofessional manner. Koreans believe that having the chance to be a pro-gamer is a god given opportunity and they should always show the best for the fans. Naniwa shat on that, so it was disrespectful to them. I don't care what Naniwa did but i certainly can see from their point of view. I don't know what you mean when you say only the westerners are learning to understand korean culture? Are you talking about it in general? Or are you just referring to the starcraft scene. You sure are making a heck loads of generalizations over here. And throwing games away (even meaningless games) is unsportsmanlike. Sportsmanship is universal, in every sport. Korea just happens to give more shits about it, in addition to other values like respect. If you're going to take part in their tourneys in their countries, then whats so hard about getting to understand their perspective? And when korean players come to western tourneys, do you see them disrespecting western culture? They are always polite and very very grateful for the fan support. | ||
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