EPTAn article on Naniwa from Thisisgame - Page 29
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oxxo
988 Posts
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ForevaADrone
United Kingdom32 Posts
The reason why this is being made a big deal of is because it was unprofessional. SC2 is striving to be compared to professional sports, and attracting a huge viewer base. Let's parallel this situation to a hypothetical sports situation. The World Cup of soccer has a group stage and then elimination. Let's say for example in the group stage two teams are 2-0 and the other two teams are 0-2. both 0-2 teams cannot qualify for the elimination stage. So one team just scores on their own net and aren't trying to win the game at all. How would that go over with the fans for that match? I am sure they wouldn't be too happy either. They paid for those tickets and they want to see the highest quality soccer match between two teams. This is another hurtle that professional gaming has to overcome because when people as skilled as Naniwa act immaturely it makes the whole of E-sports look bad. It's just overall bad for the reputation and should not be repeated. This, after my post  is the most sensible thing that has been said in 28 pages of this thread. | ||
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Russano
United States425 Posts
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
On December 14 2011 02:11 zachMEISTER wrote: I don't know if Jesus will answer you. You should pray about it and wait and see. OH damnnn dude. Nice joke, I think I see where you're going with this. | ||
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Madder
Australia427 Posts
On December 14 2011 02:12 oxxo wrote: Gotta love the foreigner bias. Complete outrage over what coca did, but a pass and complaints about Korean 'racism' when naniwa does something similar. How are those two situations even fucking comparable? Go read up on the countless threads, dude. | ||
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poorcloud
Singapore2748 Posts
On December 14 2011 02:11 ForevaADrone wrote: I can, I did, and it is a sensible comparison. You poisoned the well by asserting that the game was "meaningless". The argument I gave is that even if it was "meaningless" (i.e. has no baring on the overall result - amazing that people here think that this makes a game meaningless) Naniwa still had the duty to play it out to his best ability. If you don't think the comparison is apt, then you cannot think that SC2 in Korea is a sport on equal level to football in Europe. Seems bizarre why you would think that given the money and prestige involved. And to me that is why the foreigner e-sports scene has a long way to go into being considered a real sport/profession when people have such attitudes. Every professional sport in the world has had so much focus on sportsmanship and integrity but it seems when it comes to starcraft 2, people think its ok to forget about sportsmanship and throw games away? | ||
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Weemoed
Netherlands741 Posts
On December 14 2011 02:12 ForevaADrone wrote: This, after my post is the most sensible thing that has been said in 28 pages of this thread.You can't compare a billion-dollar (real) sport with a videogame subculture. | ||
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oxxo
988 Posts
On December 14 2011 02:14 Madder wrote: How are those two situations even fucking comparable? Go read up on the countless threads, dude. How are they not? They both threw games. You are a prime example of what I'm talking about. | ||
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Russano
United States425 Posts
On December 14 2011 02:12 ForevaADrone wrote: This, after my post is the most sensible thing that has been said in 28 pages of this thread.Then your argument should be; we should change the rules to prevent this in the future NOT naniwa should be punished for his actions. | ||
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Flowjo
United States928 Posts
On December 14 2011 02:12 oxxo wrote: Gotta love the foreigner bias. Complete outrage over what coca did, but a pass and complaints about Korean 'racism' when naniwa does something similar. Well even though I agree with the bias part, the situations are entirely different. (And yes I'm also completely against what Naniwa did). Seriously people need to stop spouting the racist conspiracies cause honestly that makes that person look like an ignorant fanboy... | ||
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raf3776
United States1904 Posts
On December 14 2011 02:10 bonifaceviii wrote: You seem to forget that Coca got his Code S spot stripped from him, by his team, because he did something dumb in a game with nothing on the line. Koreans take their Starcraft serious. Coca actually had something to give away in that game and it was match fixing to help a friend. naniwa if he won or lost nothing would change in the sc2 world | ||
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
On December 14 2011 02:14 oxxo wrote: How are they not? They both threw games. You are a prime example of what I'm talking about. 1 was worth a code a spot. 1 was worth nothing. | ||
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oxxo
988 Posts
On December 14 2011 02:15 Flowjo wrote: Well even though I agree with the bias part, the situations are entirely different. (And yes I'm also completely against what Naniwa did). Seriously people need to stop spouting the racist conspiracies cause honestly that makes that person look like an ignorant fanboy... It's similar in that they threw games. It's worse in that he did it in a huge televised event. It's better that it wasn't to change the results. Either way, it's just as bad. And during the whole Coca thing the biggest thing everyone had was 'professionalism' and 'unfair to the viewers'. But now all of a sudden everyone is saying it was wrong because of the spot. That's what I mean, people pick and choose because they love foreigners. | ||
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bonifaceviii
Canada2890 Posts
On December 14 2011 02:15 raf3776 wrote: Coca actually had something to give away in that game and it was match fixing to help a friend. naniwa if he won or lost nothing would change in the sc2 world Dude, are you one of the people that still think there was a Code A tournament spot up for grabs with the Coca thing? Even though it was explained over and over again that there wasn't? | ||
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Hatorade
299 Posts
On December 14 2011 02:06 Russano wrote: The absurd thing with these arguments, is that people are upset with HOW naniwa did something, not with WHAT he did. They are just pissy he didn't lie well enough to fool them, or that he put no effort into it. Which is fucking ridiculous. While I'm not angry or upset at him I do think what he did was a bit stupid, and he likely does too now. The easier choice is to just put in the small amount of effort to "lie"(4 gate/proxy/cannon rush etc) out of respect for all the people who paid to watch them play,produce the tournament,cast the tournament etc. I'm sure many people can sympathize not having any motivation to not play a match when there's nothing at stake, but in order to remain professional in the eyes of many he needs to at least put in more effort than he did. | ||
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poorcloud
Singapore2748 Posts
On December 14 2011 02:15 raf3776 wrote: Coca actually had something to give away in that game and it was match fixing to help a friend. naniwa if he won or lost nothing would change in the sc2 world And Coca got punished for it. Naniwa is not punished for anything. He did nothing wrong within the rules of the competition, but it was viewed morally wrong by the fans. And i don't understand why people don't get this. Naniwa did it in a bigger tournament with more audience. There is more attention to what he did, therefore there will be more backlash. I'm not saying its right, but thats how it works so stop whining and comparing these 2 situations. | ||
.Aar
2177 Posts
What Naniwa did in this situation was fucked. People in the Korean community are pissed, justifiably so. Stop trying to explain it via race or even culture. | ||
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Xcobidoo
Sweden1871 Posts
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zachMEISTER
United States625 Posts
On December 14 2011 02:11 ForevaADrone wrote: I can, I did, and it is a sensible comparison. You poisoned the well by asserting that the game was "meaningless". The argument I gave is that even if it was "meaningless" (i.e. has no baring on the overall result - amazing that people here think that this makes a game meaningless) Naniwa still had the duty to play it out to his best ability. If you don't think the comparison is apt, then you cannot think that SC2 in Korea is a sport on equal level to football in Europe. Seems bizarre why you would think that given the money and prestige involved. Because he had already played to the best of his ability. If he decided to forfeit, then that's his decision. Whether he 4-gated Nestea or probe-rushed. It was his decision to forfeit. Just because he didn't do it the way you felt was "dutiful" doesn't mean it was insulting or that he should be revoked of his "pro" status. Comparing a video-game sport to a physically grueling sport is different. Professional sports athletes spend their entire lives dedicating to the game so I don't think there would ever be a circumstance that arises where all players SIT and PICNIC because there isn't much riding on the line. It doesn't take nearly as long to "master" a video game, and there is much less involved. The abstract comparison of sport-vs-sport is there, but the physical exertion is a bit different. | ||
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poorcloud
Singapore2748 Posts
On December 14 2011 02:16 turdburgler wrote: 1 was worth a code a spot. 1 was worth nothing. It was not worth a code A spot. In fact, it was the qualifier for a tourney for a code A spot. | ||
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