|
On December 11 2011 10:52 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 08:44 chosenkerrigan wrote:On December 11 2011 08:32 Ryps wrote:
Whats with all the hate guys.. he did well in tournaments and in ladder and people still think hes not very good.
If you read Forgg thread(http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=292300) its almost the same topic and everyone seems so impressed with him after only a few games but after months of Stephano performing well they still dont think hes one of the best ? Problem is, nobody is saying forGG is the best player in the world, but the original title of this thread was "Here is why Stephano is the best player in the world". The forGG thread's title is "Why forGG looks like ONE OF THE BEST in the world". You see the difference? fOrGG stomped through code A, going 2-0 against opponents like July and Polt, with very one-sided games. He is also known to many as a very competitive brood war pro. Stephano has not played in any tournaments with competition levels near GSL. Please, don't compare Stephano to fOrGG.
I wasn't comparing stephano to forgg...i was just replying to that guy
|
On December 11 2011 08:44 chosenkerrigan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 08:32 Ryps wrote:
Whats with all the hate guys.. he did well in tournaments and in ladder and people still think hes not very good.
If you read Forgg thread(http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=292300) its almost the same topic and everyone seems so impressed with him after only a few games but after months of Stephano performing well they still dont think hes one of the best ? Problem is, nobody is saying forGG is the best player in the world, but the original title of this thread was "Here is why Stephano is the best player in the world". The forGG thread's title is "Why forGG looks like ONE OF THE BEST in the world". You see the difference?
Apparently you didn't actually read the post's in that thread. Just the OP.
The striking similarities in both of these threads both convey admiration for each others play. However the difference between the two, is this thread is emotionally associated with Stephano, hence belonging in blogs.
|
why even argue? just enjoy their games if you like them and don't watch them if you don't. who cares who's the best? let the players worry about proving that.
|
Stephano's tournament results make it look like he's very very far from being the "best player in the world".
Beating MKP is impressive. He hasn't shown any results against any other Code S level Korean. Stomping on white guys and doing well on ladder is obviously not enough to qualify as the "best player in the world", especially when MOST (if not all) of the tournaments he plays in take place within a couple of days and do not give players time to prepare specifically for maps or players. When there are people like MVP, who regularly face top Koreans in tournaments and still maintains a high win percentage, in existence, Stephano is nowhere near being the best player in the world.
|
Typical fanboy clash. I play zerg, i mainly follow zerg pros. Result-wise Stephano is probably the best foreigner right know. From what i see on streams, imo hes the best non korean zerg and - its a combination of style/mechanics and decision making (the last one im most impressed with). Is he the best player in the world... rofl. theres no best player in sc2 at the moment
|
|
|
just want to post so I can quote myself later.
stephano is a fluke and he cannot play in code A at his current skill level.
only people that practice in korea can play in GSL
he is there now so he will improve but don't expect anything great from him for awhile. he still has to prove he can handle the korean schedule. he came out with something new and unexpected and won a tournament for it. good for him but he is not a world class (read: gsl caliber) player. GSL players are a tier above everyone else and no one can play w/ the GSL crowd consistently without living in korea.
I thought HuK would get knocked out of GSL a long time ago but I do think he will soon be eliminated and that he will be the last foreigner to ever play successfully in the GSL. I don't think we will ever again see a non korean national in code S. Or anyone that can consistently play on their level. If we do it will be certainly be a player living in korea.
No one living outside of Korea can, has, or ever will be able to play against Korean players consistently.
including naniwa who is not a gsl caliber player and never will be. he is a fluke as are all foreigners.
also forGG is currently the most talented sc2 player and will soon be the best unless another current BW pro moves over. former BW pros are one thing but the current ProLeague is a lot harder than when boxer, nada, and july played in it no offense to these great legendary players.
|
On December 11 2011 11:45 yomi wrote:
just want to post so I can quote myself later.
stephano is a fluke and he cannot play in code A at his current skill level.
only people that practice in korea can play in GSL
he is there now so he will improve but don't expect anything great from him for awhile. he still has to prove he can handle the korean schedule. he came out with something new and unexpected and won a tournament for it. good for him but he is not a world class (read: gsl caliber) player. GSL players are a tier above everyone else and no one can play w/ the GSL crowd consistently without living in korea.
I thought HuK would get knocked out of GSL a long time ago but I do think he will soon be eliminated and that he will be the last foreigner to ever play successfully in the GSL. I don't think we will ever again see a non korean national in code S. Or anyone that can consistently play on their level. If we do it will be certainly be a player living in korea.
No one living outside of Korea can, has, or ever will be able to play against Korean players consistently.
including naniwa who is not a gsl caliber player and never will be. he is a fluke as are all foreigners.
also forGG is currently the most talented sc2 player and will soon be the best unless another current BW pro moves over. former BW pros are one thing but the current ProLeague is a lot harder than when boxer, nada, and july played in it no offense to these great legendary players.
I'm so grateful that someone who knows what he's talking about actually cares enough to drop off a comment.
Thank you.
I hope every Stephano, or whatever white dude is overhyped these days, fan boy reads this.
|
On December 11 2011 11:45 yomi wrote:
just want to post so I can quote myself later.
stephano is a fluke and he cannot play in code A at his current skill level.
only people that practice in korea can play in GSL
he is there now so he will improve but don't expect anything great from him for awhile. he still has to prove he can handle the korean schedule. he came out with something new and unexpected and won a tournament for it. good for him but he is not a world class (read: gsl caliber) player. GSL players are a tier above everyone else and no one can play w/ the GSL crowd consistently without living in korea.
I thought HuK would get knocked out of GSL a long time ago but I do think he will soon be eliminated and that he will be the last foreigner to ever play successfully in the GSL. I don't think we will ever again see a non korean national in code S. Or anyone that can consistently play on their level. If we do it will be certainly be a player living in korea.
No one living outside of Korea can, has, or ever will be able to play against Korean players consistently.
including naniwa who is not a gsl caliber player and never will be. he is a fluke as are all foreigners.
also forGG is currently the most talented sc2 player and will soon be the best unless another current BW pro moves over. former BW pros are one thing but the current ProLeague is a lot harder than when boxer, nada, and july played in it no offense to these great legendary players.
what the hell. no i dont think so.
However, if Stephano is as good as some of the players mentioned here, he would be an idiot not trying GSL. I mean... $50000 monthly tournament? why the hell not?
I think it's about time he steps up his commitment and try code A qualifer again again.
|
On December 11 2011 07:17 arfyron wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 05:49 figq wrote:
I'd say he's Code S level (based on how easily he progresses to the top GM of the Korean server in no time, with no prior experience with this server). But even this remains to be proven by actually playing in the GSL and becoming Code S. From there, he needs to win it. From there he needs to win it 4 times, and before MVP/Nestea/MC win 4-5 titles total. From there we can discuss Stephano being the best player in the world. All that's not impossible at all, I'm quite certain he could do it, but he must do it, otherwise all remains in the sphere of theoretical speculations. Ladder makes him code S even when barely any koreans take it seriously and he lost to boxer and thestc. Okay. Stephano is really fucking good but people need to stop hyping him up so much it makes sane fans seem dumb. Getting top GM on Korean ladder in no time with no prior experience, vs multiple Code S and A players, makes him about low Code S level, yes. Being that adaptive that fast shows the needed quality. It was similar with Coca, and people doubted he's Code S level too, but oh how soon he got there.
Yet, still I say, he needs to prove it by actually doing it, if you haven't noticed.
|
On December 11 2011 11:54 figq wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 07:17 arfyron wrote:On December 11 2011 05:49 figq wrote:
I'd say he's Code S level (based on how easily he progresses to the top GM of the Korean server in no time, with no prior experience with this server). But even this remains to be proven by actually playing in the GSL and becoming Code S. From there, he needs to win it. From there he needs to win it 4 times, and before MVP/Nestea/MC win 4-5 titles total. From there we can discuss Stephano being the best player in the world. All that's not impossible at all, I'm quite certain he could do it, but he must do it, otherwise all remains in the sphere of theoretical speculations. Ladder makes him code S even when barely any koreans take it seriously and he lost to boxer and thestc. Okay. Stephano is really fucking good but people need to stop hyping him up so much it makes sane fans seem dumb. Getting top GM on Korean ladder in no time with no prior experience, vs multiple Code S and A players, makes him about low Code S level, yes. Being that adaptive that fast shows the needed quality. It was similar with Coca, and people doubted he's Code S level too, but oh how soon he got there.
no? no one takes ladder too seriously. it's hard to say.
|
On December 11 2011 11:50 chenchen wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 11:45 yomi wrote:
just want to post so I can quote myself later.
stephano is a fluke and he cannot play in code A at his current skill level.
only people that practice in korea can play in GSL
he is there now so he will improve but don't expect anything great from him for awhile. he still has to prove he can handle the korean schedule. he came out with something new and unexpected and won a tournament for it. good for him but he is not a world class (read: gsl caliber) player. GSL players are a tier above everyone else and no one can play w/ the GSL crowd consistently without living in korea.
I thought HuK would get knocked out of GSL a long time ago but I do think he will soon be eliminated and that he will be the last foreigner to ever play successfully in the GSL. I don't think we will ever again see a non korean national in code S. Or anyone that can consistently play on their level. If we do it will be certainly be a player living in korea.
No one living outside of Korea can, has, or ever will be able to play against Korean players consistently.
including naniwa who is not a gsl caliber player and never will be. he is a fluke as are all foreigners.
also forGG is currently the most talented sc2 player and will soon be the best unless another current BW pro moves over. former BW pros are one thing but the current ProLeague is a lot harder than when boxer, nada, and july played in it no offense to these great legendary players. I'm so grateful that someone who knows what he's talking about actually cares enough to drop off a comment. Thank you. I hope every Stephano, or whatever white dude is overhyped these days, fan boy reads this.
Like all the idra fan boys? Or is that different?
|
On December 11 2011 11:59 shadymmj wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 11:54 figq wrote:On December 11 2011 07:17 arfyron wrote:On December 11 2011 05:49 figq wrote:
I'd say he's Code S level (based on how easily he progresses to the top GM of the Korean server in no time, with no prior experience with this server). But even this remains to be proven by actually playing in the GSL and becoming Code S. From there, he needs to win it. From there he needs to win it 4 times, and before MVP/Nestea/MC win 4-5 titles total. From there we can discuss Stephano being the best player in the world. All that's not impossible at all, I'm quite certain he could do it, but he must do it, otherwise all remains in the sphere of theoretical speculations. Ladder makes him code S even when barely any koreans take it seriously and he lost to boxer and thestc. Okay. Stephano is really fucking good but people need to stop hyping him up so much it makes sane fans seem dumb. Getting top GM on Korean ladder in no time with no prior experience, vs multiple Code S and A players, makes him about low Code S level, yes. Being that adaptive that fast shows the needed quality. It was similar with Coca, and people doubted he's Code S level too, but oh how soon he got there. no? no one takes ladder too seriously. it's hard to say. Yes, I'm well aware of that, thank you very much. Stephano doesn't take it too seriously either. There's a huge difference between getting top GM Korea in months of hard work, and getting top GM Korea in a few days of casual play. But believe what you will.
|
On December 11 2011 11:54 figq wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 07:17 arfyron wrote:On December 11 2011 05:49 figq wrote:
I'd say he's Code S level (based on how easily he progresses to the top GM of the Korean server in no time, with no prior experience with this server). But even this remains to be proven by actually playing in the GSL and becoming Code S. From there, he needs to win it. From there he needs to win it 4 times, and before MVP/Nestea/MC win 4-5 titles total. From there we can discuss Stephano being the best player in the world. All that's not impossible at all, I'm quite certain he could do it, but he must do it, otherwise all remains in the sphere of theoretical speculations. Ladder makes him code S even when barely any koreans take it seriously and he lost to boxer and thestc. Okay. Stephano is really fucking good but people need to stop hyping him up so much it makes sane fans seem dumb. Getting top GM on Korean ladder in no time with no prior experience, vs multiple Code S and A players, makes him about low Code S level, yes. Being that adaptive that fast shows the needed quality. It was similar with Coca, and people doubted he's Code S level too, but oh how soon he got there. Yet, still I say, he needs to prove it by actually doing it, if you haven't noticed.
No. Ladder does not make you Code S. Ladder does not make you Code A. You qualify for the tournament and work your way up, thats how it is. If we want to use ladder than Makaprime and Sage are Code S.
Some people still don't get that ladder is used for practicing basic builds and mechanics, and you save all of your good play for customs.
|
On December 11 2011 12:03 1Eris1 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 11:54 figq wrote:On December 11 2011 07:17 arfyron wrote:On December 11 2011 05:49 figq wrote:
I'd say he's Code S level (based on how easily he progresses to the top GM of the Korean server in no time, with no prior experience with this server). But even this remains to be proven by actually playing in the GSL and becoming Code S. From there, he needs to win it. From there he needs to win it 4 times, and before MVP/Nestea/MC win 4-5 titles total. From there we can discuss Stephano being the best player in the world. All that's not impossible at all, I'm quite certain he could do it, but he must do it, otherwise all remains in the sphere of theoretical speculations. Ladder makes him code S even when barely any koreans take it seriously and he lost to boxer and thestc. Okay. Stephano is really fucking good but people need to stop hyping him up so much it makes sane fans seem dumb. Getting top GM on Korean ladder in no time with no prior experience, vs multiple Code S and A players, makes him about low Code S level, yes. Being that adaptive that fast shows the needed quality. It was similar with Coca, and people doubted he's Code S level too, but oh how soon he got there. Yet, still I say, he needs to prove it by actually doing it, if you haven't noticed. No. Ladder does not make you Code S. Ladder does not make you Code A. You qualify for the tournament and work your way up, thats how it is. If we want to use ladder than Makaprime and Sage are Code S. Some people still don't get that ladder is used for practicing basic builds and mechanics, and you save all of your good play for customs. Thank you dude, I clearly did not understand that, yeah. -.-
|
On December 11 2011 11:59 shadymmj wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 11:54 figq wrote:On December 11 2011 07:17 arfyron wrote:On December 11 2011 05:49 figq wrote:
I'd say he's Code S level (based on how easily he progresses to the top GM of the Korean server in no time, with no prior experience with this server). But even this remains to be proven by actually playing in the GSL and becoming Code S. From there, he needs to win it. From there he needs to win it 4 times, and before MVP/Nestea/MC win 4-5 titles total. From there we can discuss Stephano being the best player in the world. All that's not impossible at all, I'm quite certain he could do it, but he must do it, otherwise all remains in the sphere of theoretical speculations. Ladder makes him code S even when barely any koreans take it seriously and he lost to boxer and thestc. Okay. Stephano is really fucking good but people need to stop hyping him up so much it makes sane fans seem dumb. Getting top GM on Korean ladder in no time with no prior experience, vs multiple Code S and A players, makes him about low Code S level, yes. Being that adaptive that fast shows the needed quality. It was similar with Coca, and people doubted he's Code S level too, but oh how soon he got there. no? no one takes ladder too seriously. it's hard to say.
Do you ladder to lose? No, you ladder to win and get higher up in ranks. Nobody goes into ladder matches thinking "I don't care", sure you don't prepare for ladder the same way you prepare for GSL matches, but you definitely care about losing or winning.
|
On December 11 2011 12:08 GreEny K wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 11:59 shadymmj wrote:On December 11 2011 11:54 figq wrote:On December 11 2011 07:17 arfyron wrote:On December 11 2011 05:49 figq wrote:
I'd say he's Code S level (based on how easily he progresses to the top GM of the Korean server in no time, with no prior experience with this server). But even this remains to be proven by actually playing in the GSL and becoming Code S. From there, he needs to win it. From there he needs to win it 4 times, and before MVP/Nestea/MC win 4-5 titles total. From there we can discuss Stephano being the best player in the world. All that's not impossible at all, I'm quite certain he could do it, but he must do it, otherwise all remains in the sphere of theoretical speculations. Ladder makes him code S even when barely any koreans take it seriously and he lost to boxer and thestc. Okay. Stephano is really fucking good but people need to stop hyping him up so much it makes sane fans seem dumb. Getting top GM on Korean ladder in no time with no prior experience, vs multiple Code S and A players, makes him about low Code S level, yes. Being that adaptive that fast shows the needed quality. It was similar with Coca, and people doubted he's Code S level too, but oh how soon he got there. no? no one takes ladder too seriously. it's hard to say. Do you ladder to lose? No, you ladder to win and get higher up in ranks. Nobody goes into ladder matches thinking "I don't care", sure you don't prepare for ladder the same way you prepare for GSL matches, but you definitely care about losing or winning.
Most pros don't care about losing or winning on ladder. They go on ladder to test the versatility of their builds and expose themselves to a wide variety of strategies they might not encounter in inhouse practice. Do you really think that MVP or Nestea cares about how many ladder points he has? They absolutely do not care because it has no implications for how much money they can win.
For some perspective, Kawaiirice has a perfect record against Nestea. No one's hyping him as a Code S level player because he's far from being Code S level. Similarly, Stephano has never proven that he's Code S level . . . ever.
Put him in a tournament with 30 top Koreans and see how he does . . . more likely than no exiting in the first few rounds probably.
|
On December 11 2011 12:08 GreEny K wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 11:59 shadymmj wrote:On December 11 2011 11:54 figq wrote:On December 11 2011 07:17 arfyron wrote:On December 11 2011 05:49 figq wrote:
I'd say he's Code S level (based on how easily he progresses to the top GM of the Korean server in no time, with no prior experience with this server). But even this remains to be proven by actually playing in the GSL and becoming Code S. From there, he needs to win it. From there he needs to win it 4 times, and before MVP/Nestea/MC win 4-5 titles total. From there we can discuss Stephano being the best player in the world. All that's not impossible at all, I'm quite certain he could do it, but he must do it, otherwise all remains in the sphere of theoretical speculations. Ladder makes him code S even when barely any koreans take it seriously and he lost to boxer and thestc. Okay. Stephano is really fucking good but people need to stop hyping him up so much it makes sane fans seem dumb. Getting top GM on Korean ladder in no time with no prior experience, vs multiple Code S and A players, makes him about low Code S level, yes. Being that adaptive that fast shows the needed quality. It was similar with Coca, and people doubted he's Code S level too, but oh how soon he got there. no? no one takes ladder too seriously. it's hard to say. Do you ladder to lose? No, you ladder to win and get higher up in ranks. Nobody goes into ladder matches thinking "I don't care", sure you don't prepare for ladder the same way you prepare for GSL matches, but you definitely care about losing or winning.
MVP plays random, Losira often offraces as Terran on ladder
|
Recent post regarding 80% winrate?I think you'll find out that post pre-dates IPL3 ...
|
On December 11 2011 12:25 chenchen wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 12:08 GreEny K wrote:On December 11 2011 11:59 shadymmj wrote:On December 11 2011 11:54 figq wrote:On December 11 2011 07:17 arfyron wrote:On December 11 2011 05:49 figq wrote:
I'd say he's Code S level (based on how easily he progresses to the top GM of the Korean server in no time, with no prior experience with this server). But even this remains to be proven by actually playing in the GSL and becoming Code S. From there, he needs to win it. From there he needs to win it 4 times, and before MVP/Nestea/MC win 4-5 titles total. From there we can discuss Stephano being the best player in the world. All that's not impossible at all, I'm quite certain he could do it, but he must do it, otherwise all remains in the sphere of theoretical speculations. Ladder makes him code S even when barely any koreans take it seriously and he lost to boxer and thestc. Okay. Stephano is really fucking good but people need to stop hyping him up so much it makes sane fans seem dumb. Getting top GM on Korean ladder in no time with no prior experience, vs multiple Code S and A players, makes him about low Code S level, yes. Being that adaptive that fast shows the needed quality. It was similar with Coca, and people doubted he's Code S level too, but oh how soon he got there. no? no one takes ladder too seriously. it's hard to say. Do you ladder to lose? No, you ladder to win and get higher up in ranks. Nobody goes into ladder matches thinking "I don't care", sure you don't prepare for ladder the same way you prepare for GSL matches, but you definitely care about losing or winning. Most pros don't care about losing or winning on ladder. They go on ladder to test the versatility of their builds and expose themselves to a wide variety of strategies they might not encounter in inhouse practice. Do you really think that MVP or Nestea cares about how many ladder points he has? They absolutely do not care because it has no implications for how much money they can win. For some perspective, Kawaiirice has a perfect record against Nestea. No one's hyping him as a Code S level player because he's far from being Code S level. Similarly, Stephano has never proven that he's Code S level . . . ever. Put him in a tournament with 30 top Koreans and see how he does . . . more likely than no exiting in the first few rounds probably.
have you watched DeMuslim or Jinro stream? they practice one build nonstop against one race in particular, and never deviate from it early game. even if they scout and see that the guys expoed 3 times, and would die to a mass-marine push, they still stick to their original plan. being #1 GM (like...idk violet was up there in NA for a while) doesn't mean shit unless you can beat everybody else below you. and he lost to idra last tournament (MLG?)
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
