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Stephano definitely has the talent, the question is whether he has the work ethic. Most don't. To practice all day, every day, with an honest commitment to getting better--it takes a toll on most players, especially in another country, with a language they don't speak and a culture they're unfamiliar with.
That's what has distinguished HuK so far IMO. Not his raw talent level, but the fact that he is 100% willing to work as hard as the koreans do. Anyone can be a flash in the pan, but to be consistently competitive takes constant work. HuK is a practice machine and it's kept him on a high level.
Is Stephano? We'll see. Just because he can be very good with barely any practice, doesn't mean he has it in him to do the immense amount of practicing to be truly great.
Take Ret for example. Ret is insanely talented, and he doesn't work at all. So sure, in theory, if he suddenly got a HuK style work ethic he would be dominant. But if you're not a hard worker, you're not suddenly gonna become one just because you have a lot of potential.
Stephano's talent is not in question, but whether he can keep up with Code S Koreans is entirely up to his work ethic.
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On December 11 2011 12:44 awesomoecalypse wrote:
Stephano definitely has the talent, the question is whether he has the work ethic. Most don't. To practice all day, every day, with an honest commitment to getting better--it takes a toll on most players, especially in another country, with a language they don't speak and a culture they're unfamiliar with.
That's what has distinguished HuK so far IMO. Not his raw talent level, but the fact that he is 100% willing to work as hard as the koreans do. Anyone can be a flash in the pan, but to be consistently competitive takes constant work. HuK is a practice machine and it's kept him on a high level.
Is Stephano? We'll see. Just because he can be very good with barely any practice, doesn't mean he has it in him to do the immense amount of practicing to be truly great.
Take Ret for example. Ret is insanely talented, and he doesn't work at all. So sure, in theory, if he suddenly got a HuK style work ethic he would be dominant. But if you're not a hard worker, you're not suddenly gonna become one just because you have a lot of potential.
Stephano's talent is not in question, but whether he can keep up with Code S Koreans is entirely up to his work ethic.
The question is, how do you know stephano/ret would surely be much better if they practice more? Saying that oh he doesn't practice so much and he's already this good if he puts in more practice he'll DOMINATE is just pure speculation and has no evidence to support this whatsoever.
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On December 11 2011 12:57 chosenkerrigan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 12:44 awesomoecalypse wrote:
Stephano definitely has the talent, the question is whether he has the work ethic. Most don't. To practice all day, every day, with an honest commitment to getting better--it takes a toll on most players, especially in another country, with a language they don't speak and a culture they're unfamiliar with.
That's what has distinguished HuK so far IMO. Not his raw talent level, but the fact that he is 100% willing to work as hard as the koreans do. Anyone can be a flash in the pan, but to be consistently competitive takes constant work. HuK is a practice machine and it's kept him on a high level.
Is Stephano? We'll see. Just because he can be very good with barely any practice, doesn't mean he has it in him to do the immense amount of practicing to be truly great.
Take Ret for example. Ret is insanely talented, and he doesn't work at all. So sure, in theory, if he suddenly got a HuK style work ethic he would be dominant. But if you're not a hard worker, you're not suddenly gonna become one just because you have a lot of potential.
Stephano's talent is not in question, but whether he can keep up with Code S Koreans is entirely up to his work ethic. The question is, how do you know stephano/ret would surely be much better if they practice more? Saying that oh he doesn't practice so much and he's already this good if he puts in more practice he'll DOMINATE is just pure speculation and has no evidence to support this whatsoever.
Because time and time again throughout history, practice and training has been proven. You think that people can just live off of inborn talent without putting a little effort in? Sorry, but you need to re-evaluate your philosophy if you think so. Even famous geniuses throughout history have put in hard work and massive dedication to bring the world to where it is today. Nobody would deny that Flash and JD have immense, if not the most natural talent in BW, but they still would've gotten nowhere without practicing. It goes without saying that practice would sharpen your focus.
Do I think Stephano would be much better if he put in more effort? Damn right I do. Dominate? Debatable.
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I'm going to say we need to wait and see. A lot of people can hit the scene pretty hard with innovative new styles but falter over time once the scene has figured them out. How many people have been atop the SC2 scene since the start?
Idra, Huk, Whitera....? If Stephano can maintain his current level of success then he definitely deserves consideration. However guys like theSTC, Boxer, and Crank have shown that his style can be metagamed.
Also I don't like the "if he practiced more" argument because it's a pathetic excuse for players who want you to believe their success comes from natural talent. It's an insult to those who completely dedicate themselves to the game.
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On December 11 2011 13:06 Weedk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 12:57 chosenkerrigan wrote:On December 11 2011 12:44 awesomoecalypse wrote:
Stephano definitely has the talent, the question is whether he has the work ethic. Most don't. To practice all day, every day, with an honest commitment to getting better--it takes a toll on most players, especially in another country, with a language they don't speak and a culture they're unfamiliar with.
That's what has distinguished HuK so far IMO. Not his raw talent level, but the fact that he is 100% willing to work as hard as the koreans do. Anyone can be a flash in the pan, but to be consistently competitive takes constant work. HuK is a practice machine and it's kept him on a high level.
Is Stephano? We'll see. Just because he can be very good with barely any practice, doesn't mean he has it in him to do the immense amount of practicing to be truly great.
Take Ret for example. Ret is insanely talented, and he doesn't work at all. So sure, in theory, if he suddenly got a HuK style work ethic he would be dominant. But if you're not a hard worker, you're not suddenly gonna become one just because you have a lot of potential.
Stephano's talent is not in question, but whether he can keep up with Code S Koreans is entirely up to his work ethic. The question is, how do you know stephano/ret would surely be much better if they practice more? Saying that oh he doesn't practice so much and he's already this good if he puts in more practice he'll DOMINATE is just pure speculation and has no evidence to support this whatsoever. Because time and time again throughout history, practice and training has been proven. You think that people can just live off of inborn talent without putting a little effort in? Sorry, but you need to re-evaluate your philosophy if you think so. Even famous geniuses throughout history have put in hard work and massive dedication to bring the world to where it is today. Nobody would deny that Flash and JD have immense, if not the most natural talent in BW, but they still would've gotten nowhere without practicing. It goes without saying that practice would sharpen your focus. Do I think Stephano would be much better if he put in more effort? Damn right I do. Dominate? Debatable.
I do believe in practice. However, it is likely that players like Stephano and Ret's skills would be bottlenecked when they practice much more all of a sudden. Your level of skill is not a direct proportion function of the time of practice. When you are already at a fairly high level, it takes a huge amount of time to improve a little bit. So I doubt that more practice would make Stephano MUCH better. I won't even bother the "dominate" argument. That's just too much speculation.
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On December 11 2011 12:03 1Eris1 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 11:54 figq wrote:On December 11 2011 07:17 arfyron wrote:On December 11 2011 05:49 figq wrote:
I'd say he's Code S level (based on how easily he progresses to the top GM of the Korean server in no time, with no prior experience with this server). But even this remains to be proven by actually playing in the GSL and becoming Code S. From there, he needs to win it. From there he needs to win it 4 times, and before MVP/Nestea/MC win 4-5 titles total. From there we can discuss Stephano being the best player in the world. All that's not impossible at all, I'm quite certain he could do it, but he must do it, otherwise all remains in the sphere of theoretical speculations. Ladder makes him code S even when barely any koreans take it seriously and he lost to boxer and thestc. Okay. Stephano is really fucking good but people need to stop hyping him up so much it makes sane fans seem dumb. Getting top GM on Korean ladder in no time with no prior experience, vs multiple Code S and A players, makes him about low Code S level, yes. Being that adaptive that fast shows the needed quality. It was similar with Coca, and people doubted he's Code S level too, but oh how soon he got there. Yet, still I say, he needs to prove it by actually doing it, if you haven't noticed. No. Ladder does not make you Code S. Ladder does not make you Code A. You qualify for the tournament and work your way up, thats how it is. If we want to use ladder than Makaprime and Sage are Code S.
Just a little fyi, Makaprime isn't Maka. It's Byun :s
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On December 11 2011 13:16 chosenkerrigan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 13:06 Weedk wrote:On December 11 2011 12:57 chosenkerrigan wrote:On December 11 2011 12:44 awesomoecalypse wrote:
Stephano definitely has the talent, the question is whether he has the work ethic. Most don't. To practice all day, every day, with an honest commitment to getting better--it takes a toll on most players, especially in another country, with a language they don't speak and a culture they're unfamiliar with.
That's what has distinguished HuK so far IMO. Not his raw talent level, but the fact that he is 100% willing to work as hard as the koreans do. Anyone can be a flash in the pan, but to be consistently competitive takes constant work. HuK is a practice machine and it's kept him on a high level.
Is Stephano? We'll see. Just because he can be very good with barely any practice, doesn't mean he has it in him to do the immense amount of practicing to be truly great.
Take Ret for example. Ret is insanely talented, and he doesn't work at all. So sure, in theory, if he suddenly got a HuK style work ethic he would be dominant. But if you're not a hard worker, you're not suddenly gonna become one just because you have a lot of potential.
Stephano's talent is not in question, but whether he can keep up with Code S Koreans is entirely up to his work ethic. The question is, how do you know stephano/ret would surely be much better if they practice more? Saying that oh he doesn't practice so much and he's already this good if he puts in more practice he'll DOMINATE is just pure speculation and has no evidence to support this whatsoever. Because time and time again throughout history, practice and training has been proven. You think that people can just live off of inborn talent without putting a little effort in? Sorry, but you need to re-evaluate your philosophy if you think so. Even famous geniuses throughout history have put in hard work and massive dedication to bring the world to where it is today. Nobody would deny that Flash and JD have immense, if not the most natural talent in BW, but they still would've gotten nowhere without practicing. It goes without saying that practice would sharpen your focus. Do I think Stephano would be much better if he put in more effort? Damn right I do. Dominate? Debatable. I do believe in practice. However, it is likely that players like Stephano and Ret's skills would be bottlenecked when they practice much more all of a sudden. Your level of skill is not a direct proportion function of the time of practice. When you are already at a fairly high level, it takes a huge amount of time to improve a little bit. So I doubt that more practice would make Stephano MUCH better. I won't even bother the "dominate" argument. That's just too much speculation.
Hence the "debatable." Of course it wouldn't take effect immediately, but Stephano would definitely benefit from more practice, no?
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all of these questions will be put to rest in 2 days with blizzard cup ^-^ should be fun.
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On December 11 2011 16:52 Lavi wrote:
all of these questions will be put to rest in 2 days with blizzard cup ^-^ should be fun.
Not even 2 days. If he can get out of his group tomorrow, I'd be impressed.
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Most people still don't understand how good is Stephano despite having the possibility to watch his first person stream. He's not just the best foreigner atm, Stephano is going to set new standards in Starcraft.
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On December 11 2011 01:56 LiquidFahq wrote:After a year of the release of Starcraft 2 players have swiftly risen to fame and others have fallen just as quickly as equally. From the beginning of the game is was a pre-conceived notion that the ex- Broodwar pros would simply dominate. Players who were not that successful in Broodwar such as IM_Nestea (Zergbong) and IM_MVP rose to the top to win GSL championships and without a doubt be considered the best players in the world. So a Broodwar background did help, although bonjwas and legends such as Nada, July, and Boxer did not live up to their foreclaimed glory. The Korea Model Another factor of success that was apparent from the beginning was that Korea was the place to train. Foreigners that traveled there and practiced showed that despite the majority of tournaments being located in the West, it was no way to compete. A Korean team house was the best way to better yourself as a Starcraft 2 pro and dominate competition when you return (EG_Idra) But if the majority of tournaments were located in the East, why couldn't we keep up? We would often hear from casters and players that NA players (and EU) were lazy. Pro players with "loads of talent" who did not practice ended up showing disappointing results, (cough cough Tyler cough cough three hours a day). The effort our foreigner players were putting in simply could not compete with the traditional 11 hour a day practice schedules for Koreans. Foreigner Hope The only real foreigner hope after Jinro seemed to hit a huge slump after a RO8 run was once again, EG_Idra. Showing he could not only compete with the best of the best in Code S but also dominate the *best player in the world TSL_Clide*. However, in the middle of a deep Code S run Idra forfeited his spot and returned to the U.S because he felt that is where the large majority of tournaments would be (NASL was up-and-coming then) and that a power shift was likely to occur very soon between the East and the West. EG even set up a team house and by the end of the NASL acquired Puma. The best way to compete with the Koreans would to start a team house with a Korean. This would surely even the playing field as it fix not only the laziness of NA pro players but also the lack of good practice partners. Of course, Idra, with a team house to practice in, dominated every U.S. tournament he was in. As expected they weren't even close as he claimed tournament win after tournament win. The rest of the EG house demonstrated how the the team house would indeed be the second best way to improve besides and actual Korean team house. EG_Incontrol finally posted his first top 8 MLG performance since Dallas, and EG_Machine, EG_Axslav showed impressin.... Okay I can't do this anymore. None of that happened. As sure as all of us were that it would happen and that we wanted it to happen it didn't. Only Huk and Puma posted super-impressive results for EG, and Puma had just left Korea while Huk was actually living there. Idra didn't completely fluke, and won tournaments such as IEM China, he was a major disappointment considering his expectations to be the best foreigner in the world. The rest of EG did not show live up to expectations after the team house, showing little, if any, significant improvement Korean Domination Despite attempts by foreign players every MLG was demonstrative as how large the skill gap between foreigners and Koreans. (Why do we call ourselves foreigners that weird, bro) A b-teamer, Puma demonstrated that even players that weren't in Code S or Code A would squash just about every top foreigner. That make the Code S players even scarier. The top 8 of every MLG was dominated by Koreans and so was every foreigner tournament with Korean invites. As much as the Teamliquid and foreigner community wanted foreigners to show that the skill level had been reset from Broodwar, we were all slowly accepting that this wasn't true. And then something happened that shocked all of us out of our comatose states, made us drop the big spoons of double chocolate fudge ice cream that we were eating straight from the container as we cried over Slayers players blue flaming their way to yet another MLG victory as foreigners sat on the sideline and watched. IGN 3: Origins What the Fahq,Fahq? This thread is about Stephano and you haven't even mentioned the guy at all after what seems like a SC2 history of why Koreans are so much better than us. Fahq off, I'm gonna go read about how Huk won two MLGs and Naniwa is getting nerd raged for his switch the Quantic Incredible Miracle, whoosps I mean Quantic Gaming (that didn't last long did it?) I came here because I'm a huge Stephano fan boy, and or you have a catchy title what is this crap? Okay, okay I'll get it to it. IPL 3 first LAN for ign, great that there are huge tournaments popping up all the time blah, blah, blah. Predictions about who is going to win is another Korean. Those of us watching were surprised to see players like MarineKing get upset by this kid called Stephano. He was a french dude who streamed EU ladder a couple days a week. However, there were a lot of interesting qualifying games and most people still did not know who this kid was. Speed up to the actual tournament. Korean Code S players are suddenly rolled by this French Zerg, and I said rolled. Not just because he had a weird infestor plus really highly upgraded lings combo against Terran, but also because he played a weird style of ZvP that either outright killed Protosses or slowly constricted them until Broodlords make players like EG_Incontrol cry about how sad his race was. ZvZ was equally as impressive for not only me, but anyone watching him. Stephano went on to win that tournament, and not without some insane memories like the Mothership vortex by Kiwkaki on Shattered Temple. At the end of it call Stephano decisively eliminated the following Koreans from his path: FXO_Lucky (4-0 in the finals) Ogs_TheSTC FXO_Inori MVP_Violet Slayers_Boxer Slayers_MMA This french Zerg, who had been dominating EU ladder and even placed #1, was unbeknowst by other pro players. EG_Incontrol even admitted he had no idea who this guy was, although he crashed through waves of Code S korean players and made his wins look so convincing. The Shock Stephano said at IPL 3 that he ladders three hours a day. And then doesn't play anymore. He didn't live in a team house, he didn't practice custom games all day, he laddered for a couple hours each day while studying at university. He was an old Warcraft 3 pro. They're not supposed to be good at SC2. (Whoops, what happened with Naniwa and secretly Moon?) The pink power ranger defied all pre-conceived notions about what was necessary to be successful in SC2. It just didn't make sense that someone who only plays three hours a day crushed so many good players. It had to be a fluke. It Wasn't Stephano has more talent than anyone in the world. A recent post mentioned his amazing ladder run with around a 80% winrate. What will be even more scary for everyone else is that now Stephano can practice full time. He has moved to Korea with the Ogs house and has been dominating. In around 100 games Stephano reaches top 35 on the Korean ladder (4 days). I just saw him completely shut down really well microed banshees and blue flame from ForGG or OgsFin yesterday. TangSC made a post about what learned from watching his stream today. (And what Stephano could improve-nothing, jk) Stephano will reach #1 on Korean ladder. It will be soon, too. There is no doubt(in my mind) Stephano is the best player in the world at this moment(talentwise) and he has not even reached his full potential. Others may argue that he has never tried the GSL format but Stephano is ready. He can execute a huge variety of strategies and he does things I have never seen any other Zerg do before. I have no idea why other players don't build a crap load of queens and the block hellions while wrapping around with zerglings. Why don't other players go heavy, heavy queen and roach to deal with Stargate and then have a push with what seems like a million transfuses? Because they're not Stephano. As biased as this post seems (because it is), I was not a huge Stephano hipster. I am only a avid fan of SC2 and would like to inform the rest of the community that if there is one player to watch, it is Stephano. Oh, and he won ESWC. Stephano Hwaiting! Stephano stream- http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/StephanoDenotation *best player in the world according to Artosis *Title- best player in the world according to Fahq Incontrol gets a lot of crap in this article but I am actually a huge fan and root for him to succeed in every tournament. Any other foreigner players like Huk and Naniwa of course are fantastic, but that is not what this post is about. I know there will be very positive and negative reactions, especially with such a cheesy title, but honest feedback is appreciated  ! While doing so, please be civil to everyone else's opinions(if you want to flame Stephano or someone else's comment please flame me instead for my extremely "biased and unfounded" conclusions) Even if you don't agree with this thread, (sane people won't), that doesn't mean that you shouldn't watch Stephano's stream or root for him I don't like the pink power ranger stuff either, it's just...weird BEFORE POSTING PLEASE READ FAQ Please change title to Why I Think Stephano Is Best Player In The World, i think there's a lot of good sc2 players Disclaimer* The above section only lists the reasoning behind why that I, Fahq, think that Stephano will do very well in the near future and has the potential to beat everyone in GSL and at Blizzcon I do no actually believe that Stephano is the best player in the world, he is unproven, and will not ever think that anyone is the best player in the world as it is completely objective and there are rises and falls, e.g. Bisu.
Why I think despite him being a very good player he is a moron.
Practices so little when there are so many events he could be winning.
Claimed he would only continue SC2 and avoid the university if he was making 300-400k a year. Most doctors only make 100k a year and I'm pretty sure that most people would take a bit less money to be much happier doing something they liked. Now, perhaps he will love whatever he chooses to be after going to the university, but expecting 300-400k from any job is moronic.
He doesn't go to major tournaments as much as he should.
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Thread title name is now more appropriate and no longer stupid, thanks to whoever did it.
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Why are there so many fanboys for foreign zerg players? Idra is trash yet he has more fans than most korean players. Stephano is also nothing special.. If you want to see true talent watch fOrGG's stream, even BW replays of S class players will suffice. They truly are several tiers above him.
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On December 11 2011 17:03 NoobSkills wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 01:56 LiquidFahq wrote:After a year of the release of Starcraft 2 players have swiftly risen to fame and others have fallen just as quickly as equally. From the beginning of the game is was a pre-conceived notion that the ex- Broodwar pros would simply dominate. Players who were not that successful in Broodwar such as IM_Nestea (Zergbong) and IM_MVP rose to the top to win GSL championships and without a doubt be considered the best players in the world. So a Broodwar background did help, although bonjwas and legends such as Nada, July, and Boxer did not live up to their foreclaimed glory. The Korea Model Another factor of success that was apparent from the beginning was that Korea was the place to train. Foreigners that traveled there and practiced showed that despite the majority of tournaments being located in the West, it was no way to compete. A Korean team house was the best way to better yourself as a Starcraft 2 pro and dominate competition when you return (EG_Idra) But if the majority of tournaments were located in the East, why couldn't we keep up? We would often hear from casters and players that NA players (and EU) were lazy. Pro players with "loads of talent" who did not practice ended up showing disappointing results, (cough cough Tyler cough cough three hours a day). The effort our foreigner players were putting in simply could not compete with the traditional 11 hour a day practice schedules for Koreans. Foreigner Hope The only real foreigner hope after Jinro seemed to hit a huge slump after a RO8 run was once again, EG_Idra. Showing he could not only compete with the best of the best in Code S but also dominate the *best player in the world TSL_Clide*. However, in the middle of a deep Code S run Idra forfeited his spot and returned to the U.S because he felt that is where the large majority of tournaments would be (NASL was up-and-coming then) and that a power shift was likely to occur very soon between the East and the West. EG even set up a team house and by the end of the NASL acquired Puma. The best way to compete with the Koreans would to start a team house with a Korean. This would surely even the playing field as it fix not only the laziness of NA pro players but also the lack of good practice partners. Of course, Idra, with a team house to practice in, dominated every U.S. tournament he was in. As expected they weren't even close as he claimed tournament win after tournament win. The rest of the EG house demonstrated how the the team house would indeed be the second best way to improve besides and actual Korean team house. EG_Incontrol finally posted his first top 8 MLG performance since Dallas, and EG_Machine, EG_Axslav showed impressin.... Okay I can't do this anymore. None of that happened. As sure as all of us were that it would happen and that we wanted it to happen it didn't. Only Huk and Puma posted super-impressive results for EG, and Puma had just left Korea while Huk was actually living there. Idra didn't completely fluke, and won tournaments such as IEM China, he was a major disappointment considering his expectations to be the best foreigner in the world. The rest of EG did not show live up to expectations after the team house, showing little, if any, significant improvement Korean Domination Despite attempts by foreign players every MLG was demonstrative as how large the skill gap between foreigners and Koreans. (Why do we call ourselves foreigners that weird, bro) A b-teamer, Puma demonstrated that even players that weren't in Code S or Code A would squash just about every top foreigner. That make the Code S players even scarier. The top 8 of every MLG was dominated by Koreans and so was every foreigner tournament with Korean invites. As much as the Teamliquid and foreigner community wanted foreigners to show that the skill level had been reset from Broodwar, we were all slowly accepting that this wasn't true. And then something happened that shocked all of us out of our comatose states, made us drop the big spoons of double chocolate fudge ice cream that we were eating straight from the container as we cried over Slayers players blue flaming their way to yet another MLG victory as foreigners sat on the sideline and watched. IGN 3: Origins What the Fahq,Fahq? This thread is about Stephano and you haven't even mentioned the guy at all after what seems like a SC2 history of why Koreans are so much better than us. Fahq off, I'm gonna go read about how Huk won two MLGs and Naniwa is getting nerd raged for his switch the Quantic Incredible Miracle, whoosps I mean Quantic Gaming (that didn't last long did it?) I came here because I'm a huge Stephano fan boy, and or you have a catchy title what is this crap? Okay, okay I'll get it to it. IPL 3 first LAN for ign, great that there are huge tournaments popping up all the time blah, blah, blah. Predictions about who is going to win is another Korean. Those of us watching were surprised to see players like MarineKing get upset by this kid called Stephano. He was a french dude who streamed EU ladder a couple days a week. However, there were a lot of interesting qualifying games and most people still did not know who this kid was. Speed up to the actual tournament. Korean Code S players are suddenly rolled by this French Zerg, and I said rolled. Not just because he had a weird infestor plus really highly upgraded lings combo against Terran, but also because he played a weird style of ZvP that either outright killed Protosses or slowly constricted them until Broodlords make players like EG_Incontrol cry about how sad his race was. ZvZ was equally as impressive for not only me, but anyone watching him. Stephano went on to win that tournament, and not without some insane memories like the Mothership vortex by Kiwkaki on Shattered Temple. At the end of it call Stephano decisively eliminated the following Koreans from his path: FXO_Lucky (4-0 in the finals) Ogs_TheSTC FXO_Inori MVP_Violet Slayers_Boxer Slayers_MMA This french Zerg, who had been dominating EU ladder and even placed #1, was unbeknowst by other pro players. EG_Incontrol even admitted he had no idea who this guy was, although he crashed through waves of Code S korean players and made his wins look so convincing. The Shock Stephano said at IPL 3 that he ladders three hours a day. And then doesn't play anymore. He didn't live in a team house, he didn't practice custom games all day, he laddered for a couple hours each day while studying at university. He was an old Warcraft 3 pro. They're not supposed to be good at SC2. (Whoops, what happened with Naniwa and secretly Moon?) The pink power ranger defied all pre-conceived notions about what was necessary to be successful in SC2. It just didn't make sense that someone who only plays three hours a day crushed so many good players. It had to be a fluke. It Wasn't Stephano has more talent than anyone in the world. A recent post mentioned his amazing ladder run with around a 80% winrate. What will be even more scary for everyone else is that now Stephano can practice full time. He has moved to Korea with the Ogs house and has been dominating. In around 100 games Stephano reaches top 35 on the Korean ladder (4 days). I just saw him completely shut down really well microed banshees and blue flame from ForGG or OgsFin yesterday. TangSC made a post about what learned from watching his stream today. (And what Stephano could improve-nothing, jk) Stephano will reach #1 on Korean ladder. It will be soon, too. There is no doubt(in my mind) Stephano is the best player in the world at this moment(talentwise) and he has not even reached his full potential. Others may argue that he has never tried the GSL format but Stephano is ready. He can execute a huge variety of strategies and he does things I have never seen any other Zerg do before. I have no idea why other players don't build a crap load of queens and the block hellions while wrapping around with zerglings. Why don't other players go heavy, heavy queen and roach to deal with Stargate and then have a push with what seems like a million transfuses? Because they're not Stephano. As biased as this post seems (because it is), I was not a huge Stephano hipster. I am only a avid fan of SC2 and would like to inform the rest of the community that if there is one player to watch, it is Stephano. Oh, and he won ESWC. Stephano Hwaiting! Stephano stream- http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/StephanoDenotation *best player in the world according to Artosis *Title- best player in the world according to Fahq Incontrol gets a lot of crap in this article but I am actually a huge fan and root for him to succeed in every tournament. Any other foreigner players like Huk and Naniwa of course are fantastic, but that is not what this post is about. I know there will be very positive and negative reactions, especially with such a cheesy title, but honest feedback is appreciated ! While doing so, please be civil to everyone else's opinions(if you want to flame Stephano or someone else's comment please flame me instead for my extremely "biased and unfounded" conclusions) Even if you don't agree with this thread, (sane people won't), that doesn't mean that you shouldn't watch Stephano's stream or root for him I don't like the pink power ranger stuff either, it's just...weird BEFORE POSTING PLEASE READ FAQ Please change title to Why I Think Stephano Is Best Player In The World, i think there's a lot of good sc2 players Disclaimer* The above section only lists the reasoning behind why that I, Fahq, think that Stephano will do very well in the near future and has the potential to beat everyone in GSL and at Blizzcon I do no actually believe that Stephano is the best player in the world, he is unproven, and will not ever think that anyone is the best player in the world as it is completely objective and there are rises and falls, e.g. Bisu. Why I think despite him being a very good player he is a moron. Practices so little when there are so many events he could be winning. Claimed he would only continue SC2 and avoid the university if he was making 300-400k a year. Most doctors only make 100k a year and I'm pretty sure that most people would take a bit less money to be much happier doing something they liked. Now, perhaps he will love whatever he chooses to be after going to the university, but expecting 300-400k from any job is moronic. He doesn't go to major tournaments as much as he should.
One problem I could conceive is that you can't sustain a pro-gamer's carrier after 30 as far as we know. The oldest progamers are Boxer and Whitera and not exactly top top players. And even if they were, there is no telling as to what the limit of age in progaming really is, because it's such a young profession. On the other hand, you can be a doctor for as long as it matters for the society.
I don't know, I'm not aware of how much a pro-gamer earns, or how the sponsors will factor in as eSports grow, but it seems to me that they're kinda living the dream (for those who don't have any diploma whatsoever), and I don't know what they will do when it's over for them. They can't all be coaches or commentators...
We've seen already a good amount of players that are realistic and at least finished their studies to get some sort of college degree (like NaDa or Polt) and even players who retired (Cruncher, well he wasn't the most talented guy ever anyway but still) and others wo plan to retire unless they see guaranties in this lifestyle, like Stephano.
I guess being a progamer could be compared to being a pro soccer player, you cannot do that forever. The difference is that the most random soccer dude earns millions already (in Europe), which is not the case for a Starcraft 2 player yet.
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On December 11 2011 17:00 HALFKNOT wrote:
Most people still don't understand how good is Stephano despite having the possibility to watch his first person stream. He's not just the best foreigner atm, Stephano is going to set new standards in Starcraft.
Only standard I foresee him setting is a new standard of over hyping a player.
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On December 11 2011 17:23 ZenithM wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 17:03 NoobSkills wrote:On December 11 2011 01:56 LiquidFahq wrote:After a year of the release of Starcraft 2 players have swiftly risen to fame and others have fallen just as quickly as equally. From the beginning of the game is was a pre-conceived notion that the ex- Broodwar pros would simply dominate. Players who were not that successful in Broodwar such as IM_Nestea (Zergbong) and IM_MVP rose to the top to win GSL championships and without a doubt be considered the best players in the world. So a Broodwar background did help, although bonjwas and legends such as Nada, July, and Boxer did not live up to their foreclaimed glory. The Korea Model Another factor of success that was apparent from the beginning was that Korea was the place to train. Foreigners that traveled there and practiced showed that despite the majority of tournaments being located in the West, it was no way to compete. A Korean team house was the best way to better yourself as a Starcraft 2 pro and dominate competition when you return (EG_Idra) But if the majority of tournaments were located in the East, why couldn't we keep up? We would often hear from casters and players that NA players (and EU) were lazy. Pro players with "loads of talent" who did not practice ended up showing disappointing results, (cough cough Tyler cough cough three hours a day). The effort our foreigner players were putting in simply could not compete with the traditional 11 hour a day practice schedules for Koreans. Foreigner Hope The only real foreigner hope after Jinro seemed to hit a huge slump after a RO8 run was once again, EG_Idra. Showing he could not only compete with the best of the best in Code S but also dominate the *best player in the world TSL_Clide*. However, in the middle of a deep Code S run Idra forfeited his spot and returned to the U.S because he felt that is where the large majority of tournaments would be (NASL was up-and-coming then) and that a power shift was likely to occur very soon between the East and the West. EG even set up a team house and by the end of the NASL acquired Puma. The best way to compete with the Koreans would to start a team house with a Korean. This would surely even the playing field as it fix not only the laziness of NA pro players but also the lack of good practice partners. Of course, Idra, with a team house to practice in, dominated every U.S. tournament he was in. As expected they weren't even close as he claimed tournament win after tournament win. The rest of the EG house demonstrated how the the team house would indeed be the second best way to improve besides and actual Korean team house. EG_Incontrol finally posted his first top 8 MLG performance since Dallas, and EG_Machine, EG_Axslav showed impressin.... Okay I can't do this anymore. None of that happened. As sure as all of us were that it would happen and that we wanted it to happen it didn't. Only Huk and Puma posted super-impressive results for EG, and Puma had just left Korea while Huk was actually living there. Idra didn't completely fluke, and won tournaments such as IEM China, he was a major disappointment considering his expectations to be the best foreigner in the world. The rest of EG did not show live up to expectations after the team house, showing little, if any, significant improvement Korean Domination Despite attempts by foreign players every MLG was demonstrative as how large the skill gap between foreigners and Koreans. (Why do we call ourselves foreigners that weird, bro) A b-teamer, Puma demonstrated that even players that weren't in Code S or Code A would squash just about every top foreigner. That make the Code S players even scarier. The top 8 of every MLG was dominated by Koreans and so was every foreigner tournament with Korean invites. As much as the Teamliquid and foreigner community wanted foreigners to show that the skill level had been reset from Broodwar, we were all slowly accepting that this wasn't true. And then something happened that shocked all of us out of our comatose states, made us drop the big spoons of double chocolate fudge ice cream that we were eating straight from the container as we cried over Slayers players blue flaming their way to yet another MLG victory as foreigners sat on the sideline and watched. IGN 3: Origins What the Fahq,Fahq? This thread is about Stephano and you haven't even mentioned the guy at all after what seems like a SC2 history of why Koreans are so much better than us. Fahq off, I'm gonna go read about how Huk won two MLGs and Naniwa is getting nerd raged for his switch the Quantic Incredible Miracle, whoosps I mean Quantic Gaming (that didn't last long did it?) I came here because I'm a huge Stephano fan boy, and or you have a catchy title what is this crap? Okay, okay I'll get it to it. IPL 3 first LAN for ign, great that there are huge tournaments popping up all the time blah, blah, blah. Predictions about who is going to win is another Korean. Those of us watching were surprised to see players like MarineKing get upset by this kid called Stephano. He was a french dude who streamed EU ladder a couple days a week. However, there were a lot of interesting qualifying games and most people still did not know who this kid was. Speed up to the actual tournament. Korean Code S players are suddenly rolled by this French Zerg, and I said rolled. Not just because he had a weird infestor plus really highly upgraded lings combo against Terran, but also because he played a weird style of ZvP that either outright killed Protosses or slowly constricted them until Broodlords make players like EG_Incontrol cry about how sad his race was. ZvZ was equally as impressive for not only me, but anyone watching him. Stephano went on to win that tournament, and not without some insane memories like the Mothership vortex by Kiwkaki on Shattered Temple. At the end of it call Stephano decisively eliminated the following Koreans from his path: FXO_Lucky (4-0 in the finals) Ogs_TheSTC FXO_Inori MVP_Violet Slayers_Boxer Slayers_MMA This french Zerg, who had been dominating EU ladder and even placed #1, was unbeknowst by other pro players. EG_Incontrol even admitted he had no idea who this guy was, although he crashed through waves of Code S korean players and made his wins look so convincing. The Shock Stephano said at IPL 3 that he ladders three hours a day. And then doesn't play anymore. He didn't live in a team house, he didn't practice custom games all day, he laddered for a couple hours each day while studying at university. He was an old Warcraft 3 pro. They're not supposed to be good at SC2. (Whoops, what happened with Naniwa and secretly Moon?) The pink power ranger defied all pre-conceived notions about what was necessary to be successful in SC2. It just didn't make sense that someone who only plays three hours a day crushed so many good players. It had to be a fluke. It Wasn't Stephano has more talent than anyone in the world. A recent post mentioned his amazing ladder run with around a 80% winrate. What will be even more scary for everyone else is that now Stephano can practice full time. He has moved to Korea with the Ogs house and has been dominating. In around 100 games Stephano reaches top 35 on the Korean ladder (4 days). I just saw him completely shut down really well microed banshees and blue flame from ForGG or OgsFin yesterday. TangSC made a post about what learned from watching his stream today. (And what Stephano could improve-nothing, jk) Stephano will reach #1 on Korean ladder. It will be soon, too. There is no doubt(in my mind) Stephano is the best player in the world at this moment(talentwise) and he has not even reached his full potential. Others may argue that he has never tried the GSL format but Stephano is ready. He can execute a huge variety of strategies and he does things I have never seen any other Zerg do before. I have no idea why other players don't build a crap load of queens and the block hellions while wrapping around with zerglings. Why don't other players go heavy, heavy queen and roach to deal with Stargate and then have a push with what seems like a million transfuses? Because they're not Stephano. As biased as this post seems (because it is), I was not a huge Stephano hipster. I am only a avid fan of SC2 and would like to inform the rest of the community that if there is one player to watch, it is Stephano. Oh, and he won ESWC. Stephano Hwaiting! Stephano stream- http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/StephanoDenotation *best player in the world according to Artosis *Title- best player in the world according to Fahq Incontrol gets a lot of crap in this article but I am actually a huge fan and root for him to succeed in every tournament. Any other foreigner players like Huk and Naniwa of course are fantastic, but that is not what this post is about. I know there will be very positive and negative reactions, especially with such a cheesy title, but honest feedback is appreciated ! While doing so, please be civil to everyone else's opinions(if you want to flame Stephano or someone else's comment please flame me instead for my extremely "biased and unfounded" conclusions) Even if you don't agree with this thread, (sane people won't), that doesn't mean that you shouldn't watch Stephano's stream or root for him I don't like the pink power ranger stuff either, it's just...weird BEFORE POSTING PLEASE READ FAQ Please change title to Why I Think Stephano Is Best Player In The World, i think there's a lot of good sc2 players Disclaimer* The above section only lists the reasoning behind why that I, Fahq, think that Stephano will do very well in the near future and has the potential to beat everyone in GSL and at Blizzcon I do no actually believe that Stephano is the best player in the world, he is unproven, and will not ever think that anyone is the best player in the world as it is completely objective and there are rises and falls, e.g. Bisu. Why I think despite him being a very good player he is a moron. Practices so little when there are so many events he could be winning. Claimed he would only continue SC2 and avoid the university if he was making 300-400k a year. Most doctors only make 100k a year and I'm pretty sure that most people would take a bit less money to be much happier doing something they liked. Now, perhaps he will love whatever he chooses to be after going to the university, but expecting 300-400k from any job is moronic. He doesn't go to major tournaments as much as he should. One problem I could conceive is that you can't sustain a pro-gamer's carrier after 30 as far as we know. The oldest progamers are Boxer and Whitera and not exactly top top players. And even if they were, there is no telling as to what the limit of age in progaming really is, because it's such a young profession. On the other hand, you can be a doctor as long as it matters for the society. I don't know, I'm not aware of how much a pro-gamer earns, or how the sponsors will factor in as eSports grow, but it seems to me that they're kinda living the dream (for those who don't have any diploma whatsoever), and I don't know what they will do when it's over for them. They can't all be coaches or commentators... We've seen already a good amount of players that are realistic and at least finished their studies to get some sort of college degree (like NaDa or Polt) and even players who retired (Cruncher, well he wasn't the most talented guy ever anyway but still) and others wo plan to retire unless they see guaranties in this lifestyle, like Stephano. I guess being a progamer could be compared to being a pro soccer player, you cannot do that forever. The difference is that the most random soccer dude earns millions already (in Europe), which is not the case for a Starcraft 2 player yet.
Working 9-5 jobs is not the only way to make money. With the money he can accumulate until he hits 30 years old, he can do so much more with it. Hell, in America, give me $300k and I'm gonna open c-stores for you and you are gonna make 200k, 300k/year easily, you don't even have to work.
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You know what? I wanted to make a thread + Show Spoiler +"Why XiGua will be the best Zerg in the world soon" before his WCG final match.
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as Idra said in an interview
"stephano lost a macro game to boxer, boxer is not a macro player."
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On December 11 2011 17:46 BoggieMan wrote:
as Idra said in an interview
"stephano lost a macro game to boxer, boxer is not a macro player."
He insulted two in one sentence! 
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On December 11 2011 17:49 bonedriven wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 17:46 BoggieMan wrote:
as Idra said in an interview
"stephano lost a macro game to boxer, boxer is not a macro player." He insulted two in one sentence!
saying boxer is not a macro player is not an insult towards boxer. Everyone knows he is not a macro player, he's really good at micro and smart builds that confuse the opponent, but he is not a strong macro player.
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EPT
