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Best player in the world is taking it too far don't you think?
I do think stephano is the best overall foreign zerg though at this moment, largely in part because of the same x-factor that destiny had which is mass ling infester, if he played "standard" like most zergs he would not nearly do as well. Of course he's shown decent muta play probably equal to a code b zerg, and versatility in his timings with roach pushes ala coca/leenock agression which shows he's just not a one trick pony like destiny.
second foreign zerg i'm not sure i guess i would give it to sen just because he seems solid and puts up good results and the fact that hes owned naniwa the last two tournaments they faced, whereas nani smashed stephano at the recent dreamhack.
Idra is kind of like a wild card ... if sc2 was more like bw then yes i do think he would be best hands down, and he probably is the most talented foreign zerg in mechanical skill level. But this game is balanced around abusive timings and strategies which he hates to partake in, so it makes him one dimensional and vulnerable. (ex: tvp being balance around terran using 1-1-1 and other timings as their standard play got nerfed beyond belief - its just part of the game)
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On December 11 2011 07:48 1Eris1 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 07:43 Zeborg wrote:On December 11 2011 07:41 1Eris1 wrote:On December 11 2011 07:37 Crushinator wrote:On December 11 2011 07:28 Zeborg wrote:On December 11 2011 07:24 pPingu wrote:On December 11 2011 07:21 Zeborg wrote:On December 11 2011 06:32 LXR wrote:
Hmm I don't see him winning any in the blizzard cup seeing as there will be more practice against his style. I have the feeling that he only did well at IPL3 because the korean players had never ever heard of him before and they underestimated him. When competing in the korean environment, where players have more time to prepare for specific matches, I think his lack of work ethic/practice will hurt him even more. Honestly, I don't think he can get out of the first round unless he gets really lucky.
Besides that prediction, looking back to dreamhack and MLG he didn't perform very well, so I can't really understand how he's any better (or special as the OP puts it) than some other players who got lucky one tournament and then dropped off the face of the earth. He did well in IPL3, ESWC, IPL4, and loads of other online tournaments. He currently has more tournament winnings (not including salary) than any other non-korean. Still waiting for the day where tournament winnings will determine the quality of a player There's not one way to objectively quantify player skill bro. Tournament placements, tournament winnings, ladder ranking, consistency, quality of opponents a player has beaten...they're all counted. You also failed to acknowledge that I was responding directly to LXR's post that indicated that he's one of those players that "got lucky in one tournament then dropped off the face of the earth." Obviously, Stephano has one more than one tournament and he has not dropped off the face of the earth. Also, apart from fruitdealer I cant think of a single player that won a major tournament and fell 'off the face of the earth.'. Let alone 3 tournaments. But aparently trivializing peoples achieventment gets some people off. No one is fucking trivializing his achievements, they just don't think he's the best in the world, because he isn't, and anyone saying otherwise is an idiot. Honestly There are plenty of arguments that have been used to trivialize his achievements. 1) He only did well because people weren't familiar with his style 2) He could hear the announcers at ESWC 3) His wins against MMA were online. 4) He's only beaten A-class Korean players. etc., etc. 3 and 4 are true? Dunno about 1 and 2. And they were arguing because this thread was originally titled "WHy Stephano is the best player in the world" This thread should be closed, too many idiots
I couldn't care less whether he's the best in the world or not. It bugs me to see people trivialize legitimate victories. "Oh, X player only won because his opponent was jetlagged, etc. etc."
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On December 11 2011 07:52 Zeborg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 07:48 1Eris1 wrote:On December 11 2011 07:43 Zeborg wrote:On December 11 2011 07:41 1Eris1 wrote:On December 11 2011 07:37 Crushinator wrote:On December 11 2011 07:28 Zeborg wrote:On December 11 2011 07:24 pPingu wrote:On December 11 2011 07:21 Zeborg wrote:On December 11 2011 06:32 LXR wrote:
Hmm I don't see him winning any in the blizzard cup seeing as there will be more practice against his style. I have the feeling that he only did well at IPL3 because the korean players had never ever heard of him before and they underestimated him. When competing in the korean environment, where players have more time to prepare for specific matches, I think his lack of work ethic/practice will hurt him even more. Honestly, I don't think he can get out of the first round unless he gets really lucky.
Besides that prediction, looking back to dreamhack and MLG he didn't perform very well, so I can't really understand how he's any better (or special as the OP puts it) than some other players who got lucky one tournament and then dropped off the face of the earth. He did well in IPL3, ESWC, IPL4, and loads of other online tournaments. He currently has more tournament winnings (not including salary) than any other non-korean. Still waiting for the day where tournament winnings will determine the quality of a player There's not one way to objectively quantify player skill bro. Tournament placements, tournament winnings, ladder ranking, consistency, quality of opponents a player has beaten...they're all counted. You also failed to acknowledge that I was responding directly to LXR's post that indicated that he's one of those players that "got lucky in one tournament then dropped off the face of the earth." Obviously, Stephano has one more than one tournament and he has not dropped off the face of the earth. Also, apart from fruitdealer I cant think of a single player that won a major tournament and fell 'off the face of the earth.'. Let alone 3 tournaments. But aparently trivializing peoples achieventment gets some people off. No one is fucking trivializing his achievements, they just don't think he's the best in the world, because he isn't, and anyone saying otherwise is an idiot. Honestly There are plenty of arguments that have been used to trivialize his achievements. 1) He only did well because people weren't familiar with his style 2) He could hear the announcers at ESWC 3) His wins against MMA were online. 4) He's only beaten A-class Korean players. etc., etc. 3 and 4 are true? Dunno about 1 and 2. And they were arguing because this thread was originally titled "WHy Stephano is the best player in the world" This thread should be closed, too many idiots I couldn't care less whether he's the best in the world or not. It bugs me to see people trivialize legitimate victories. "Oh, X player only won because his opponent was jetlagged, etc. etc."
They get trivialized because people use them as a claim that he is a god at SC2.
IPL3 was a great win for him, but in no way, shape, or form can it be used to show he is the best in the world.
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Appreciate your passion for esports and for stephano.
Stephano has more talent than anyone in the world. A recent post mentioned his amazing ladder run with around a 80% winrate. What will be even more scary for everyone else is that now Stephano can practice full time. He has moved to Korea with the Ogs house and has been dominating. In around 100 games Stephano reaches top 35 on the Korean ladder (4 days). I just saw him completely shut down really well microed banshees and blue flame from ForGG or OgsFin yesterday. TangSC made a post about what learned from watching his stream today. (And what Stephano could improve-nothing, jk)
Stephano will reach #1 on Korean ladder. It will be soon, too. There is no doubt(in my mind) Stephano is the best player in the world at this moment(talentwise) and he has not even reached his full potential. Others may argue that he has never tried the GSL format but Stephano is ready. He can execute a huge variety of strategies and he does things I have never seen any other Zerg do before. I have no idea why other players don't build a crap load of queens and the block hellions while wrapping around with zerglings. Why don't other players go heavy, heavy queen and roach to deal with Stargate and then have a push with what seems like a million transfuses? Because they're not Stephano. As biased as this post seems (because it is), I was not a huge Stephano hipster. I am only a avid fan of SC2 and would like to inform the rest of the community that if there is one player to watch, it is Stephano. Oh, and he won ESWC.
-You haven't watched every player's stream
-The ladder 80% run post is very old I thought, it just got bumped, no?
-He will improve once he moves to korea that I can assure
-ogsCezanne shut down the banshees and hellions as well
-TangSC: should tell that one at parties bro
-Makaprime has been #1 on KR ladder for how long, next WoL bonjwa OFC!
>Ladder is where people go to try BOs... You saw forgg's stream surely, essentially same build every game...
-How did you really quantify talent? ._.
-Never having tried GSL format is a silly argument anyways. It's more time to prepare, potential games are way more interesting than MLG, etc. game after game format.
-IMMVP and others have a huge variety of strategies
-Queen and zerglings for defense? I hope that doesn't get called stephano style, because it has actually been around for ages. A lot of people are just greedier.
-MKP didn't have his glasses, but I still respect stephano's skill. MKP hasn't been showing stellar results for a while, I think? (not counting AoL >>)
I think Stephano has the potential to do very well in the Blizzard cup, but have my doubts on making it to the semis purely because teams have been watching stephano and figuring out how he plays. Since his muta control isn't omfgamazing as his other aspects, I think we'll see some pre-scripted builds from everyone.
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On December 11 2011 07:47 GreyMasta wrote:
I am a member of Stephano's fanclub and I gotta say this thread is just plain stupid. B-Net stupid.
Can we close now it plz?
This might be the only arguement I agree with in the entire thread...
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On December 11 2011 07:50 Lavi wrote:
Best player in the world is taking it too far don't you think?
I do think stephano is the best overall foreign zerg though at this moment, largely in part because of the same x-factor that destiny had which is mass ling infester, if he played "standard" like most zergs he would not nearly do as well. Of course he's shown decent muta play probably equal to a code b zerg, and versatility in his timings with roach pushes ala coca/leenock agression which shows he's just not a one trick pony like destiny.
second foreign zerg i'm not sure i guess i would give it to sen just because he seems solid and puts up good results and the fact that hes owned naniwa the last two tournaments they faced, whereas nani smashed stephano at the recent dreamhack.
Idra is kind of like a wild card ... if sc2 was more like bw then yes i do think he would be best hands down, and he probably is the most talented foreign zerg in mechanical skill level. But this game is balanced around abusive timings and strategies which he hates to partake in, so it makes him one dimensional and vulnerable. (ex: tvp being balance around terran using 1-1-1 and other timings as their standard play got nerfed beyond belief - its just part of the game)
How can you even say that? Stephano doesn't have anywhere near the results of idra, sen, dimaga, or ret. Honestly, putting him above any of them is just silly when all hes done is done well in what, 2 tournaments? While they have been consistently doing pretty well since the beginning of SC2.
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On December 11 2011 07:56 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 07:50 Lavi wrote:
Best player in the world is taking it too far don't you think?
I do think stephano is the best overall foreign zerg though at this moment, largely in part because of the same x-factor that destiny had which is mass ling infester, if he played "standard" like most zergs he would not nearly do as well. Of course he's shown decent muta play probably equal to a code b zerg, and versatility in his timings with roach pushes ala coca/leenock agression which shows he's just not a one trick pony like destiny.
second foreign zerg i'm not sure i guess i would give it to sen just because he seems solid and puts up good results and the fact that hes owned naniwa the last two tournaments they faced, whereas nani smashed stephano at the recent dreamhack.
Idra is kind of like a wild card ... if sc2 was more like bw then yes i do think he would be best hands down, and he probably is the most talented foreign zerg in mechanical skill level. But this game is balanced around abusive timings and strategies which he hates to partake in, so it makes him one dimensional and vulnerable. (ex: tvp being balance around terran using 1-1-1 and other timings as their standard play got nerfed beyond belief - its just part of the game)
How can you even say that? Stephano doesn't have anywhere near the results of idra, sen, dimaga, or ret.
The thread is stupid, but this is just flatout wrong.
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stephano is good (particularly tvz) because he abuses lings. Everytime the T attempts a push, he is met with a seemingly billions lings. This is because of superior game sense and some good scouting.
stephano is particularly weak to early game shenanigans but once he has a relatively stable economy, its a grind to beat this guy.
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On December 11 2011 07:56 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 07:50 Lavi wrote:
Best player in the world is taking it too far don't you think?
I do think stephano is the best overall foreign zerg though at this moment, largely in part because of the same x-factor that destiny had which is mass ling infester, if he played "standard" like most zergs he would not nearly do as well. Of course he's shown decent muta play probably equal to a code b zerg, and versatility in his timings with roach pushes ala coca/leenock agression which shows he's just not a one trick pony like destiny.
second foreign zerg i'm not sure i guess i would give it to sen just because he seems solid and puts up good results and the fact that hes owned naniwa the last two tournaments they faced, whereas nani smashed stephano at the recent dreamhack.
Idra is kind of like a wild card ... if sc2 was more like bw then yes i do think he would be best hands down, and he probably is the most talented foreign zerg in mechanical skill level. But this game is balanced around abusive timings and strategies which he hates to partake in, so it makes him one dimensional and vulnerable. (ex: tvp being balance around terran using 1-1-1 and other timings as their standard play got nerfed beyond belief - its just part of the game)
How can you even say that? Stephano doesn't have anywhere near the results of idra, sen, dimaga, or ret. Honestly, putting him above any of them is just silly when all hes done is done well in what, 2 tournaments? While they have been consistently doing pretty well since the beginning of SC2.
I would say Stephano has better results than any of them, but that is arguable and not the point. The fact that you dont even think its a legitimate opinion that Stephano is the best foreign zerg is absolutely ridiculous. For example Ret considers Stephano the best foreign Zerg (said on his stream). Stop haring bro.
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Do you relalize that you responding to only one dude who seems the only one to have this opinion ?? just let this thread die its worthless..
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It's really amazing that with his amount of practice, Stephano can perform at the level he does.
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On December 11 2011 08:04 JohnMatrix wrote:
Do you relalize that you responding to only one dude who seems the only one to have this opinion ?? just let this thread die its worthless..
You make a good point sir.
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The music on his stream is THE BEST! We all agree on this right? Perhaps the GSL champions are still "better" than Stephano at SC2, but his taste in music is perfection.
Everyone else plays good stuff, but Stephano's playlist is timeless.
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On December 11 2011 07:56 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 07:50 Lavi wrote:
Best player in the world is taking it too far don't you think?
I do think stephano is the best overall foreign zerg though at this moment, largely in part because of the same x-factor that destiny had which is mass ling infester, if he played "standard" like most zergs he would not nearly do as well. Of course he's shown decent muta play probably equal to a code b zerg, and versatility in his timings with roach pushes ala coca/leenock agression which shows he's just not a one trick pony like destiny.
second foreign zerg i'm not sure i guess i would give it to sen just because he seems solid and puts up good results and the fact that hes owned naniwa the last two tournaments they faced, whereas nani smashed stephano at the recent dreamhack.
Idra is kind of like a wild card ... if sc2 was more like bw then yes i do think he would be best hands down, and he probably is the most talented foreign zerg in mechanical skill level. But this game is balanced around abusive timings and strategies which he hates to partake in, so it makes him one dimensional and vulnerable. (ex: tvp being balance around terran using 1-1-1 and other timings as their standard play got nerfed beyond belief - its just part of the game)
How can you even say that? Stephano doesn't have anywhere near the results of idra, sen, dimaga, or ret. Honestly, putting him above any of them is just silly when all hes done is done well in what, 2 tournaments? While they have been consistently doing pretty well since the beginning of SC2.
Hey dude, mind checking TLPD's Stephano's profile, please?
Yeah, here, just on le right of your screen, beside that french flag icon. ----->>
The kid won more shit since last july than Idra or Sen in the whole year.
I agree that the OP is stupid and surely trolling, but it is not a reason to make shit up and disregard Stephano's achievements.
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First of all, it's pretty obvious that the OP is a troll, look at his post count and name ffs -.-. Second of all, of course Stephano is a good player. Any guy who wins major tournaments and goes to rank 17 on the kr gm ladder with 71,65% win rate is obviously really, really good. This just may be his "15 minutes of fame" and afterwards he'll dissappear, or maybe hes gonna stick around (if he decides to keep on playing).
All we really know is that hes a really good player whos young and is talented. We dont know what will happen tomorrow..
I hate it when players are being overhyped (overhyped as in "BEST PLAYA EVAR) cus it normally dosnt do anything except make more people not cheer for him and not like him because of the fanboys. And he dosnt deserve that, as he hasn't dont anything wrong. Much like the mindless Idra drones which sometimes make me kinda not want him to win (even though I know it's not rational).
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stephano cant be a good player cause zerg  -------
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Whats with all the hate guys.. he did well in tournaments and in ladder and people still think hes not very good.
If you read Forgg thread(http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=292300) its almost the same topic and everyone seems so impressed with him after only a few games but after months of Stephano performing well they still dont think hes one of the best ?
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On December 11 2011 02:16 blobrus wrote:
It's posts like these that make me a stephano anti-fan.
same here...
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On December 11 2011 08:15 GreyMasta wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 07:56 hunts wrote:On December 11 2011 07:50 Lavi wrote:
Best player in the world is taking it too far don't you think?
I do think stephano is the best overall foreign zerg though at this moment, largely in part because of the same x-factor that destiny had which is mass ling infester, if he played "standard" like most zergs he would not nearly do as well. Of course he's shown decent muta play probably equal to a code b zerg, and versatility in his timings with roach pushes ala coca/leenock agression which shows he's just not a one trick pony like destiny.
second foreign zerg i'm not sure i guess i would give it to sen just because he seems solid and puts up good results and the fact that hes owned naniwa the last two tournaments they faced, whereas nani smashed stephano at the recent dreamhack.
Idra is kind of like a wild card ... if sc2 was more like bw then yes i do think he would be best hands down, and he probably is the most talented foreign zerg in mechanical skill level. But this game is balanced around abusive timings and strategies which he hates to partake in, so it makes him one dimensional and vulnerable. (ex: tvp being balance around terran using 1-1-1 and other timings as their standard play got nerfed beyond belief - its just part of the game)
How can you even say that? Stephano doesn't have anywhere near the results of idra, sen, dimaga, or ret. Honestly, putting him above any of them is just silly when all hes done is done well in what, 2 tournaments? While they have been consistently doing pretty well since the beginning of SC2. Hey dude, mind checking TLPD's Stephano's profile, please? Yeah, here, just on le right of your screen, beside that french flag icon. ----->> The kid won more shit since last july than Idra or Sen in the whole year. I agree that the OP is stupid and surely trolling, but it is not a reason to make shit up and disregard Stephano's achievements.
I'm sorry but really most of those tournamennts stephano has won are not big ones, almost the whole bottom half of the list are tiny french tournaments without a single korean or even a single top international player, so of course he would win those.
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EPT
