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InFi.asc
Germany518 Posts
On December 06 2011 00:31 WinteRR wrote: T 55% -> 45%. They went and broke TvP. Great. That's a ridiculous swing, even though these stats can't be taken as gospel truth. that's like the funniest comment I have read i a while. Terran up 55 %: everything is all dandy protoss up 55%: matchup is broken! | ||
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ceaRshaf
Romania4926 Posts
On December 06 2011 01:03 InFi.asc wrote: that's like the funniest comment I have read i a while. Terran up 55 %: everything is all dandy protoss up 55%: matchup is broken! We forget that terran players are actually better so they weren't OP they were just good. On a serious note it's a short time to call it anything. The recent patches just landed. We need to digest them. | ||
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Baum
Germany1010 Posts
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Doko
Argentina1737 Posts
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ProxyKnoxy
United Kingdom2576 Posts
I don't think it is accurate to say that TvP is broken imba in P's favour as the patch has only just come through.. I don't think the cost of forge upgrades itself has made this change, it's just made people aware that double forge is pretty freaking good. The emp change was needed though if we're being honest | ||
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covetousrat
2109 Posts
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Lorch
Germany3691 Posts
-Protoss favored for the first time in ages -> OMG matchup broken, Protoss is soooo OP. | ||
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-Celestial-
United Kingdom3867 Posts
On December 06 2011 01:14 Baum wrote: In every science class you would get a hit with a stick because of your sensationalist formatting of these stats. 5% is a minor difference but your graphs make it out to be a huge one. His graphs are perfectly acceptable so long as his error bars are accurate. Its a difference, thats all that matters; whether 5% or 50% doesn't matter. What DOES matter is if that difference is statistically significant (i.e. that the error bars do not overlap). My PhD supervisor would hit me with a stick if I didn't report a statistically significant difference, even if it was "only" 5% (which can actually be a huge difference depending upon what you're measuring). Anyway, interesting to see the huge reversal in PvT. First time Terran has been lowest in the winrates. For all those yelling about "its happened before", people are referring to the overall winrates at the top, NOT just TvP; Terran has always been top race in overall except for February where it was 0.1% below Protoss, making it second for that month, and even then the Terran moving average has NEVER been below that of either of the other races until now. I think the PvT is a combination of Terran not knowing how many Ghosts to build now after the EMP nerf (something that'll have to be worked out) coupled with the patch going "hey Protoss, get more upgrades" which has caused this change to Protoss playstyles that Terran haven't figured out yet. Give it a month or so and I expect to see it stabilising out a lot more. Though how far it swings back towards Terran will be the real test of how successful the patch was. | ||
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Mehukannu
Finland421 Posts
On December 06 2011 01:23 ProxyKnoxy wrote: What on earth has happened to TvP I don't think it is accurate to say that TvP is broken imba in P's favour as the patch has only just come through.. I don't think the cost of forge upgrades itself has made this change, it's just made people aware that double forge is pretty freaking good. The emp change was needed though if we're being honest I wonder why EMP nerf was even needed, now that I look the graph from TvP october the match up only had 5,4% difference, it wasn't huge at all. | ||
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aderum
Sweden1459 Posts
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thezanursic
5497 Posts
On December 06 2011 01:30 covetousrat wrote: The rise of Protoss !! LOLOL and a sequal Beneath Aiur! | ||
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Chewbacca.
United States3634 Posts
On December 06 2011 01:14 Baum wrote: In every science class you would get a hit with a stick because of your sensationalist formatting of these stats. 5% is a minor difference but your graphs make it out to be a huge one. I would think that most science teachers would be capable of reading the scale and determing that it is a minor difference even if it looks big. Also...as if scientists don't try and skew things to match their hypothesis + to obtain further funding... | ||
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InFi.asc
Germany518 Posts
On December 06 2011 01:36 Mehukannu wrote: I wonder why EMP nerf was even needed, now that I look the graph from TvP october the match up only had 5,4% difference, it wasn't huge at all. then you should look at korean only statistics or GSL only statistics. there you have more significant differences. http://i.imgur.com/bviP1.png | ||
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Mehukannu
Finland421 Posts
On December 06 2011 01:39 InFi.asc wrote: then you should look at korean only statistics or GSL only statistics. there you have more significant differences. http://i.imgur.com/bviP1.png Isn't there more terran and zerg players in korea than there is protoss players? I think that is definitely a thing to consider about the match ups in korea. EDIT: When November statistics for Korea comes out? | ||
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Elefanto
Switzerland3584 Posts
Stil i feel the emp nerf made PvT ALOT better from my personal experience. If they get PvZ right, i'm going to be incredibly happy and it might motivate me again to play more. | ||
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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
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pPingu
Switzerland2892 Posts
On December 06 2011 01:48 Mehukannu wrote: Isn't there more terran and zerg players in korea than there is protoss players? I think that is definitely a thing to consider about the match ups in korea. EDIT: When November statistics for Korea comes out? There were more in the gsl, but it doesn't modify the stats for tvp and zvp Kore stats normally come a couple of days after those | ||
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Catatonic
United States699 Posts
On December 06 2011 00:07 thezanursic wrote: Nerfing mutas isn't the answer. Terrans just have put down 6 turrets to defend. I think turrets could be SLIGHTLY buffed, but there is no reason to not get the turret range upgrade and around 6 turrets it pays of believe it or not it does. I'm not saying turret your main like you see in bronze just put down 6-10 turrets down at the side where mutas come from now only do this if the zerg is going heavy muta obviously don't do this against 10 mutas, but at 30 mutas 10 turrets should trade cost effectively or just keep the zerg from attacking you http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=277047 I would even say it wouldn't be bad to just put down twice as many late game. Turrets aren't just a muta repeller it's also a way to buy time for your marines to arrive. Though atleast from my experience once I start getting air upgrades which is immediately once the spire is done, turrets get burned down quickly. Around the 10min mark I have 7-9 mutas so I generally see round 3-4 turrets total in the base which i burn quick run out to escape the marines then run back in when they leave. The only thing Iv seen that terren has unless they actually do mass out turrets (which then ill just tech switch) is thors which seem to rip through mutas like a knife through butter (ofcourse meaning the butter isnt a frozen brick). I wasnt saying nerfing mutas was the answer though as it would create an immense imbalance in favor of the other races. Im just saying mutas being as good as they are, are a reason for terran balancing out in the win percentage cause iv seen mutas being used in increasing frequency in all matchups. | ||
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InFi.asc
Germany518 Posts
On December 06 2011 01:48 Mehukannu wrote: Isn't there more terran and zerg players in korea than there is protoss players? I think that is definitely a thing to consider about the match ups in korea. EDIT: When November statistics for Korea comes out? the number of players has no direct influence in the winning percentages. aside from that I don't know when the Korean stats will be uploaded but I hope they will be done simultaneously in the future so we don't even have to use the International stats to get sense of the balance. that said I can give you the GSL stats. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/7fnEk.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/7m5dY.jpg) | ||
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Kanil
United States1713 Posts
Then again, they did win two of the four major tournaments this month, so I'm still not too worried about them. :p | ||
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