EPT[Nov] TLPD Race Winrate Graphs - Page 12
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OGKruemmel
Croatia270 Posts
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Dalavita
Sweden1113 Posts
On December 06 2011 00:02 Zealot Lord wrote: EMP'ing own units is silly - however, that said, I still believe ghost with tier 3 unit compositions are largely undiscovered in the TvP metagame. It's true that feedback counters raven/thors/banshees and such, but with good ghost snipe/emps, the templars themselves can be negated. No feedback = viable T3 terran units no? If you watch Select play TvP, you'll notice that no templars ever gets close enough to feedback/storm his units - however in this case, instead of using snipe to prevent the ghost from getting fedback, you do it for the sake of protecting your other units. There's no difference, its still a ghost v templar battle which ghosts can and should come out on top. As for ghost/raven + whatever composition being too much gas, if protoss can get collosus/templar/archons off of 3~4 bases, I honestly don't see why terrans can't gradually transition into a gas heavy army in the late game as well. Not really. People need to realize that even without feedback the terran t3 wouldn't be able to compete with a 3/3 protoss ball. Not only would you be behind on upgrades since you need to transition into mech after the midgame (and this suggests getting banshees as well), but even without feedback the protoss balls are more than cost effective against mech while also being more mobile. | ||
ZeromuS
Canada13431 Posts
:D Sweet. | ||
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Ravomat
Germany427 Posts
On December 06 2011 01:36 Mehukannu wrote: I wonder why EMP nerf was even needed, now that I look the graph from TvP october the match up only had 5,4% difference, it wasn't huge at all. Are you serious? The old EMP had 2 range more than feedback and can hit multiple units. It was insanely difficult to micro in the ht/ghost war and it actually still is very difficult to not get most of your HTs EMP'd. Also in October the TvP matchup had a 10% difference. This can be considered broken. Right now Terran seems to have more problems with fast Protoss upgrades than with EMP. | ||
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Sega92
United States467 Posts
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Jerglings
United States104 Posts
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laharl23
United States582 Posts
these threads only make me laugh. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46722 Posts
On December 06 2011 02:00 Ravomat wrote: Are you serious? The old EMP had 2 range more than feedback and can hit multiple units. It was insanely difficult to micro in the ht/ghost war and it actually still is very difficult to not get most of your HTs EMP'd. Also in October the TvP matchup had a 10% difference. This can be considered broken. Right now Terran seems to have more problems with fast Protoss upgrades than with EMP. If that's the case, then that's pretty interesting, because the patch barely did anything at all to directly buff Protoss upgrades. It was more of a meta-buff... by merely talking about the forge and Protoss upgrades in the patch notes, Protoss realized that double upgrades could be viable, and more people went for them. They weren't exactly made significantly stronger or faster with this new patch, but the idea was planted in Protoss players' heads ^^ (It's the chrono boost that helps create the upgrade advantage for the Protoss, not the decrease of a few resources or the extra two gateway units that they can now make with their extra money from the minor buff.) | ||
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K3Nyy
United States1961 Posts
On December 06 2011 01:03 InFi.asc wrote: that's like the funniest comment I have read i a while. Terran up 55 %: everything is all dandy protoss up 55%: matchup is broken! Yeah.. especially since Terrans were dominating the matchup for months. -.- One month Protoss > Terran, Protoss imba! Whether or not this is just a metagame shift or adjusting to the patch, I would really like it if Protoss somehow got a nerf to the ease of their units. I don't think it's imbalanced, but late game PvT really made me realize how little Protoss has to do in comparison with the Terran, even at the higher levels in my opinion. I would definitely like it if Protoss had to do more micro/multitasking in order to achieve that strength of that late game army. | ||
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Lorch
Germany3717 Posts
On December 06 2011 02:02 Sega92 wrote: did anyone else notice that in oct (when everyone was starting to say that Terran was OP) that zergs were winning just as much and after the patch terrans are losing the most? yeah...totally balanced...thanks for ruining the game protoss, next you'll whine that warpgate doesn't let you make units anywhere even without a pylon So terran not having the highest winrate out of all races for 1 month ruines the game for you? Guess blizz should just release Starcraft 2: Terran only. Keep up the juicy terran tears, this thread is so full of win. | ||
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Dalavita
Sweden1113 Posts
On December 06 2011 02:10 K3Nyy wrote: Yeah.. especially since Terrans were dominating the matchup for months. -.- One month Protoss > Terran, Protoss imba! Whether or not this is just a metagame shift or adjusting to the patch, I would really like it if Protoss somehow got a nerf to the ease of their units. I don't think it's imbalanced, but late game PvT really made me realize how little Protoss has to do in comparison with the Terran, even at the higher levels in my opinion. I would definitely like it if Protoss had to do more micro/multitasking in order to achieve that strength of that late game army. If a change like that happened protosses would be off the radar for a couple of months in tournaments until they learned to readjust. They're doing something like that for hots, but the other way around. The terran mech units are looking to make the race more a-click friendly against protoss. | ||
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MVTaylor
United Kingdom2893 Posts
SHOCKING... (Or all the people posting in threads relating to Terran are right) | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46722 Posts
On December 06 2011 02:02 Sega92 wrote: did anyone else notice that in oct (when everyone was starting to say that Terran was OP) that zergs were winning just as much and after the patch terrans are losing the most? yeah...totally balanced...thanks for ruining the game protoss, next you'll whine that warpgate doesn't let you make units anywhere even without a pylon You know what? I don't think that's a realistic concern. | ||
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K3Nyy
United States1961 Posts
On December 06 2011 02:13 Dalavita wrote: If a change like that happened protosses would be off the radar for a couple of months in tournaments until they learned to readjust. They're doing something like that for hots, but the other way around. The terran mech units are looking to make the race more a-click friendly against protoss. Yeah that's good, all the bad Protoss would drop out and the better ones would stay, though I can't really think of a top Protoss right now that doesn't deserve to be at the top. And for hots.. T_T, we need more micro not less! | ||
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Mehukannu
Finland421 Posts
On December 06 2011 02:00 Ravomat wrote: Are you serious? The old EMP had 2 range more than feedback and can hit multiple units. It was insanely difficult to micro in the ht/ghost war and it actually still is very difficult to not get most of your HTs EMP'd. Also in October the TvP matchup had a 10% difference. This can be considered broken. Right now Terran seems to have more problems with fast Protoss upgrades than with EMP. Chances are that blizzard never want there to be HT/ghost war, because emp still does have 1 range advantage over feedback. Most likely protoss shouldn't even be thinking about feedbacking ghost but rather focus more on getting storms off on the terran bio ball. I was looking the difference from 50% mark, since that is the difference from the ideal balance for the game. | ||
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Lorch
Germany3717 Posts
On December 06 2011 02:19 Mehukannu wrote: Chances are that blizzard never want there to be HT/ghost war, because emp still does have 1 range advantage over feedback. Most likely protoss shouldn't even be thinking about feedbacking ghost but rather focus more on getting storms off on the terran bio ball. I was looking the difference from 50% mark, since that is the difference from the ideal balance for the game. Given that based upon BW expirience and all I feel like Blizz never expected ghost to be used that much in the first place, I feel like they just gave them emp as a desperation move in hope it would make them viable. | ||
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Dalavita
Sweden1113 Posts
On December 06 2011 02:19 Mehukannu wrote: Chances are that blizzard never want there to be HT/ghost war, because emp still does have 1 range advantage over feedback. Most likely protoss shouldn't even be thinking about feedbacking ghost but rather focus more on getting storms off on the terran bio ball. I was looking the difference from 50% mark, since that is the difference from the ideal balance for the game. Pretty much. You are always better off landing storms than you are avoiding EMPs in the matchup. Protoss units are more durable, and if you can sneak in one or two storms in on the terran bio it dissipates to the rest of the protoss army. | ||
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thezanursic
5504 Posts
On December 06 2011 01:53 Catatonic wrote: Though atleast from my experience once I start getting air upgrades which is immediately once the spire is done, turrets get burned down quickly. Around the 10min mark I have 7-9 mutas so I generally see round 3-4 turrets total in the base which i burn quick run out to escape the marines then run back in when they leave. The only thing Iv seen that terren has unless they actually do mass out turrets (which then ill just tech switch) is thors which seem to rip through mutas like a knife through butter (ofcourse meaning the butter isnt a frozen brick). I wasnt saying nerfing mutas was the answer though as it would create an immense imbalance in favor of the other races. Im just saying mutas being as good as they are, are a reason for terran balancing out in the win percentage cause iv seen mutas being used in increasing frequency in all matchups. When I say a lot of turrets I don't mean surround your base with turrets. What bronze do is retarded they surround their base with a 1 by 1 turret what I'm talking about is having 3-4 turrets standing together. Let's take a look at Xel'naga for instance. When the mutas come out you should be 2 base or you are horrible. Soo 3-4 turrets on the right side of the main 3-4 defending the natural on the left and 3-4 with your production facilities. Even at 30 Mutas 3-4 turrets should take out a few mutas and mutas cost gas so that's bad for zerg. I don't even find it to extreme to incorporate 3 engy bays against muta builds 2 for upgrades and 1 for Building armor/ Turret range and an additional 2 armor on the turrets is actually really good (It also effects the bounces) | ||
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thezanursic
5504 Posts
On December 06 2011 02:03 Jerglings wrote: Oh god the Terran tears. So delicious. Who won GSL again? Not this again. Leenock soo fucked up actually. He should have won the last game he let the Terran get into a position that killed him Leenock was so ahead and the last map was very Zerg favored so it was still anyones a game | ||
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Quotidian
Norway1937 Posts
On December 06 2011 00:48 PredY wrote: tbh, i can't wait for hots. tvp is such a bullshit (design wise) I can't see anything in HOTS that is really going to change tvp, except maybe the battle hellion - but at top levels, I'm guessing stim micro is still the better way to go, considering how slow transformed hellions are. Protoss will still generally be too a-move friendly (that's Blizzard's intention with the colossus after all), and terran still gets no real advantage from holding a position with siege tanks. If the match up changes at all, it'll still be blob vs blob, just with a couple different units and a more cumbersome upgrade path for terran. What's worse, the air terran styles will be even less effective with the air to air splash of the tempest, and the Replicant will kill any tech heavy terran opening. No, mmm will still be the de facto way to play tvp in HOTS. | ||
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