|
On December 06 2011 02:05 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 02:00 Ravomat wrote:On December 06 2011 01:36 Mehukannu wrote:On December 06 2011 01:23 ProxyKnoxy wrote:
What on earth has happened to TvP
I don't think it is accurate to say that TvP is broken imba in P's favour as the patch has only just come through..
I don't think the cost of forge upgrades itself has made this change, it's just made people aware that double forge is pretty freaking good.
The emp change was needed though if we're being honest I wonder why EMP nerf was even needed, now that I look the graph from TvP october the match up only had 5,4% difference, it wasn't huge at all. Are you serious? The old EMP had 2 range more than feedback and can hit multiple units. It was insanely difficult to micro in the ht/ghost war and it actually still is very difficult to not get most of your HTs EMP'd. Also in October the TvP matchup had a 10% difference. This can be considered broken. Right now Terran seems to have more problems with fast Protoss upgrades than with EMP. If that's the case, then that's pretty interesting, because the patch barely did anything at all to directly buff Protoss upgrades. It was more of a meta-buff... by merely talking about the forge and Protoss upgrades in the patch notes, Protoss realized that double upgrades could be viable, and more people went for them. They weren't exactly made significantly stronger or faster with this new patch, but the idea was planted in Protoss players' heads ^^ (It's the chrono boost that helps create the upgrade advantage for the Protoss, not the decrease of a few resources or the extra two gateway units that they can now make with their extra money from the minor buff.)
The win rate that we see this month could have been here last month, but the Protoss players were like meh let's just play overly aggressive.
|
Oh my god, it's like the metagame is actually changing the win percentages! What a concept!
|
On December 06 2011 02:27 Quotidian wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 00:48 PredY wrote:On December 06 2011 00:44 eYeball wrote:On December 06 2011 00:19 decaf wrote:
So basically we have a really well balanced game right now. Who else is waiting for HOTS to destroy this? David Kim and Dustin Browder. It would be so sad if it would take another year of balance to get it to this again.  tbh, i can't wait for hots. tvp is such a bullshit (design wise) I can't see anything in HOTS that is really going to change tvp, except maybe the battle hellion - but at top levels, I'm guessing stim micro is still the better way to go, considering how slow transformed hellions are. Protoss will still generally be too a-move friendly (that's Blizzard's intention with the colossus after all), and terran still gets no real advantage from holding a position with siege tanks. If the match up changes at all, it'll still be blob vs blob, just with a couple different units and a more cumbersome upgrade path for terran. What's worse, the air terran styles will be even less effective with the air to air splash of the tempest, and the Replicant will kill any tech heavy terran opening. No, mmm will still be the de facto way to play tvp in HOTS.
This. Nothing is going to change in HoTs. Tanks will still be garbage in TvP, Warhounds are still going to be countered by charge lots and immortals.
|
On December 06 2011 02:11 Lorch wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 02:02 Sega92 wrote:
did anyone else notice that in oct (when everyone was starting to say that Terran was OP) that zergs were winning just as much and after the patch terrans are losing the most? yeah...totally balanced...thanks for ruining the game protoss, next you'll whine that warpgate doesn't let you make units anywhere even without a pylon So terran not having the highest winrate out of all races for 1 month ruines the game for you? Guess blizz should just release Starcraft 2: Terran only. Keep up the juicy terran tears, this thread is so full of win.
I'm just waiting on you to say that Blizzard is Terran favored due to the majority of players playing Terran I bet you were one of the terrancraft posters on the Battle.net just a month ago. I'd also like to point out that Terran is the least played race
|
I like the emp nerf, it seemed silly that a couple ghosts could demolish the protoss army. I just wish terran got some late game buffs since immortals and chargelots totally crush tanks and thors. Sticking with MMM is a little dull.
|
On December 06 2011 02:32 thezanursic wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 02:11 Lorch wrote:On December 06 2011 02:02 Sega92 wrote:
did anyone else notice that in oct (when everyone was starting to say that Terran was OP) that zergs were winning just as much and after the patch terrans are losing the most? yeah...totally balanced...thanks for ruining the game protoss, next you'll whine that warpgate doesn't let you make units anywhere even without a pylon So terran not having the highest winrate out of all races for 1 month ruines the game for you? Guess blizz should just release Starcraft 2: Terran only. Keep up the juicy terran tears, this thread is so full of win. I'm just waiting on you to say that Blizzard is Terran favored due to the majority of players playing Terran I bet you were one of the terrancraft posters on the Battle.net just a month ago. I'd also like to point out that Terran is the least played race
Keep it up man, this turns from win to fun, getting better by the second, now tell me how hard to play terran is and how fucking bad all your units are, start with the marauder.
|
On December 06 2011 02:34 Klaxon wrote:
I like the emp nerf, it seemed silly that a couple ghosts could demolish the protoss army. I just wish terran got some late game buffs since immortals and chargelots totally crush tanks and thors. Sticking with MMM is a little dull.
I guess you could say that for storms
|
On December 06 2011 02:35 Lorch wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 02:32 thezanursic wrote:On December 06 2011 02:11 Lorch wrote:On December 06 2011 02:02 Sega92 wrote:
did anyone else notice that in oct (when everyone was starting to say that Terran was OP) that zergs were winning just as much and after the patch terrans are losing the most? yeah...totally balanced...thanks for ruining the game protoss, next you'll whine that warpgate doesn't let you make units anywhere even without a pylon So terran not having the highest winrate out of all races for 1 month ruines the game for you? Guess blizz should just release Starcraft 2: Terran only. Keep up the juicy terran tears, this thread is so full of win. I'm just waiting on you to say that Blizzard is Terran favored due to the majority of players playing Terran I bet you were one of the terrancraft posters on the Battle.net just a month ago. I'd also like to point out that Terran is the least played race Keep it up man, this turns from win to fun, getting better by the second, now tell me how hard to play terran is and how fucking bad all your units are, start with the marauder.
My opinion? TvP is EZ PZ my win rate in TvP is the highest I take games off of players who I shouldn't beat. TvZ is hard a shit I try to hellion double expand I try to do dmg and I end up doing shit. That's my situation I can actually send you replays latter after I get back to my computer in a week. You can watch me beat players who are obviously overall a lot better than me. Marauders are so good I just love the marauder expand if the protoss sends a stalker to harass even better!
In all seriousness TvP is my best match up I dunno I just find it the easiest. It's probably because I've got a very skilled Toss practice partner and that inflates my abilitys in that match up and I can't believe you took my response that seriously...
|
PvT. Entertaining. Wierd it did so much. To be fair a lot fcould be just terrible practice by Ts because a lot of PvTs have looked screwy combined with much more refined toss play in some games.
|
On December 06 2011 02:21 Lorch wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 02:19 Mehukannu wrote:On December 06 2011 02:00 Ravomat wrote:On December 06 2011 01:36 Mehukannu wrote:On December 06 2011 01:23 ProxyKnoxy wrote:
What on earth has happened to TvP
I don't think it is accurate to say that TvP is broken imba in P's favour as the patch has only just come through..
I don't think the cost of forge upgrades itself has made this change, it's just made people aware that double forge is pretty freaking good.
The emp change was needed though if we're being honest I wonder why EMP nerf was even needed, now that I look the graph from TvP october the match up only had 5,4% difference, it wasn't huge at all. Are you serious? The old EMP had 2 range more than feedback and can hit multiple units. It was insanely difficult to micro in the ht/ghost war and it actually still is very difficult to not get most of your HTs EMP'd. Also in October the TvP matchup had a 10% difference. This can be considered broken. Right now Terran seems to have more problems with fast Protoss upgrades than with EMP. Chances are that blizzard never want there to be HT/ghost war, because emp still does have 1 range advantage over feedback. Most likely protoss shouldn't even be thinking about feedbacking ghost but rather focus more on getting storms off on the terran bio ball. I was looking the difference from 50% mark, since that is the difference from the ideal balance for the game. Given that based upon BW expirience and all I feel like Blizz never expected ghost to be used that much in the first place, I feel like they just gave them emp as a desperation move in hope it would make them viable.
Well, it is quite hard to say if Blizzard had copied ghost from BW with all its abilities to SC2 been more viable with all the smart casting and easier army control. =P
|
On December 06 2011 02:27 Quotidian wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 00:48 PredY wrote:On December 06 2011 00:44 eYeball wrote:On December 06 2011 00:19 decaf wrote:
So basically we have a really well balanced game right now. Who else is waiting for HOTS to destroy this? David Kim and Dustin Browder. It would be so sad if it would take another year of balance to get it to this again. tbh, i can't wait for hots. tvp is such a bullshit (design wise) I can't see anything in HOTS that is really going to change tvp, except maybe the battle hellion - but at top levels, I'm guessing stim micro is still the better way to go, considering how slow transformed hellions are. Protoss will still generally be too a-move friendly (that's Blizzard's intention with the colossus after all), and terran still gets no real advantage from holding a position with siege tanks. If the match up changes at all, it'll still be blob vs blob, just with a couple different units and a more cumbersome upgrade path for terran. What's worse, the air terran styles will be even less effective with the air to air splash of the tempest, and the Replicant will kill any tech heavy terran opening. No, mmm will still be the de facto way to play tvp in HOTS.
As a Protoss I'm scared shitless of the Battle Hellion.
In late game PvT, the only thing that can't die instantly in mass Zealots and Hellion with spray aoe would just demolish that.
Hopefully the factories and upgrades needed won't make Hellions easily massable with the Bioball.
|
On December 06 2011 02:46 Condor Hero wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 02:27 Quotidian wrote:On December 06 2011 00:48 PredY wrote:On December 06 2011 00:44 eYeball wrote:On December 06 2011 00:19 decaf wrote:
So basically we have a really well balanced game right now. Who else is waiting for HOTS to destroy this? David Kim and Dustin Browder. It would be so sad if it would take another year of balance to get it to this again. tbh, i can't wait for hots. tvp is such a bullshit (design wise) I can't see anything in HOTS that is really going to change tvp, except maybe the battle hellion - but at top levels, I'm guessing stim micro is still the better way to go, considering how slow transformed hellions are. Protoss will still generally be too a-move friendly (that's Blizzard's intention with the colossus after all), and terran still gets no real advantage from holding a position with siege tanks. If the match up changes at all, it'll still be blob vs blob, just with a couple different units and a more cumbersome upgrade path for terran. What's worse, the air terran styles will be even less effective with the air to air splash of the tempest, and the Replicant will kill any tech heavy terran opening. No, mmm will still be the de facto way to play tvp in HOTS. As a Protoss I'm scared shitless of the Battle Hellion. In late game PvT, the only thing that can't die instantly in mass Zealots and Hellion with spray aoe would just demolish that. Hopefully the factories and upgrades needed won't make Hellions easily massable with the Bioball.
Don't worry about it you don't have to deal with siege tank builds anymore (1/1/1) .
All you gotta do is fake a replicator build and the terran will kill his own tanks just not to deal with tanks himself.
|
|
|
On December 06 2011 02:03 Jerglings wrote:
Oh god the Terran tears. So delicious. Who won GSL again?
Pretty sure was someone who plays the same race as the guy that won NASL
|
On December 05 2011 19:52 fraktoasters wrote:
Well PvT changed pretty dramatically. I'm just glad the protoss whining has calmed down a lot because it was at a pretty ridiculous level at one point.
1/1/1 before the 5sec barracks build time increase and 6 range immortal was really ridiculous.
Stats look pretty decent, glad pvz hasn't been so 1 sided lately.
On December 05 2011 20:17 StiX wrote:
Does anyone thinks its funny that in:
PvT Protoss has the better end
ZvT Terran has the better end
ZvP Zerg has the better end
?
heh... same as in most of broodwar. interesting
|
On December 06 2011 02:31 HypernovA wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 02:27 Quotidian wrote:On December 06 2011 00:48 PredY wrote:On December 06 2011 00:44 eYeball wrote:On December 06 2011 00:19 decaf wrote:
So basically we have a really well balanced game right now. Who else is waiting for HOTS to destroy this? David Kim and Dustin Browder. It would be so sad if it would take another year of balance to get it to this again. tbh, i can't wait for hots. tvp is such a bullshit (design wise) I can't see anything in HOTS that is really going to change tvp, except maybe the battle hellion - but at top levels, I'm guessing stim micro is still the better way to go, considering how slow transformed hellions are. Protoss will still generally be too a-move friendly (that's Blizzard's intention with the colossus after all), and terran still gets no real advantage from holding a position with siege tanks. If the match up changes at all, it'll still be blob vs blob, just with a couple different units and a more cumbersome upgrade path for terran. What's worse, the air terran styles will be even less effective with the air to air splash of the tempest, and the Replicant will kill any tech heavy terran opening. No, mmm will still be the de facto way to play tvp in HOTS. This. Nothing is going to change in HoTs. Tanks will still be garbage in TvP, Warhounds are still going to be countered by charge lots and immortals.
Warhounds do extra damage to mechanical, and immortals are mechanical... are they going to be super-effective against one another?
|
On December 06 2011 03:04 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 02:31 HypernovA wrote:On December 06 2011 02:27 Quotidian wrote:On December 06 2011 00:48 PredY wrote:On December 06 2011 00:44 eYeball wrote:On December 06 2011 00:19 decaf wrote:
So basically we have a really well balanced game right now. Who else is waiting for HOTS to destroy this? David Kim and Dustin Browder. It would be so sad if it would take another year of balance to get it to this again. tbh, i can't wait for hots. tvp is such a bullshit (design wise) I can't see anything in HOTS that is really going to change tvp, except maybe the battle hellion - but at top levels, I'm guessing stim micro is still the better way to go, considering how slow transformed hellions are. Protoss will still generally be too a-move friendly (that's Blizzard's intention with the colossus after all), and terran still gets no real advantage from holding a position with siege tanks. If the match up changes at all, it'll still be blob vs blob, just with a couple different units and a more cumbersome upgrade path for terran. What's worse, the air terran styles will be even less effective with the air to air splash of the tempest, and the Replicant will kill any tech heavy terran opening. No, mmm will still be the de facto way to play tvp in HOTS. This. Nothing is going to change in HoTs. Tanks will still be garbage in TvP, Warhounds are still going to be countered by charge lots and immortals. Warhounds do extra damage to mechanical, and immortals are mechanical... are they doing to be super-effective against one another?
Warhounds will probably suck against immortals unless you have already pierced the hardened sheilds
I think warhounds are more of a counter to stalkers, and then to a lesser extent, colosus (and whatever the replicator makes... hope replicator never sees the light of day though)
|
On December 06 2011 03:04 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 02:31 HypernovA wrote:On December 06 2011 02:27 Quotidian wrote:On December 06 2011 00:48 PredY wrote:On December 06 2011 00:44 eYeball wrote:On December 06 2011 00:19 decaf wrote:
So basically we have a really well balanced game right now. Who else is waiting for HOTS to destroy this? David Kim and Dustin Browder. It would be so sad if it would take another year of balance to get it to this again. tbh, i can't wait for hots. tvp is such a bullshit (design wise) I can't see anything in HOTS that is really going to change tvp, except maybe the battle hellion - but at top levels, I'm guessing stim micro is still the better way to go, considering how slow transformed hellions are. Protoss will still generally be too a-move friendly (that's Blizzard's intention with the colossus after all), and terran still gets no real advantage from holding a position with siege tanks. If the match up changes at all, it'll still be blob vs blob, just with a couple different units and a more cumbersome upgrade path for terran. What's worse, the air terran styles will be even less effective with the air to air splash of the tempest, and the Replicant will kill any tech heavy terran opening. No, mmm will still be the de facto way to play tvp in HOTS. This. Nothing is going to change in HoTs. Tanks will still be garbage in TvP, Warhounds are still going to be countered by charge lots and immortals. Warhounds do extra damage to mechanical, and immortals are mechanical... are they doing to be super-effective against one another?
Wow that could be a very interesting dynamic I hope they have target priority on Marines so marines get sent infront for so it comes down to a micro battle who focuses better
|
On December 06 2011 01:54 InFi.asc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 01:48 Mehukannu wrote:On December 06 2011 01:39 InFi.asc wrote:On December 06 2011 01:36 Mehukannu wrote:On December 06 2011 01:23 ProxyKnoxy wrote:
What on earth has happened to TvP
I don't think it is accurate to say that TvP is broken imba in P's favour as the patch has only just come through..
I don't think the cost of forge upgrades itself has made this change, it's just made people aware that double forge is pretty freaking good.
The emp change was needed though if we're being honest I wonder why EMP nerf was even needed, now that I look the graph from TvP october the match up only had 5,4% difference, it wasn't huge at all. then you should look at korean only statistics or GSL only statistics. there you have more significant differences. http://i.imgur.com/bviP1.png Isn't there more terran and zerg players in korea than there is protoss players? I think that is definitely a thing to consider about the match ups in korea. EDIT: When November statistics for Korea comes out? the number of players has no direct influence in the winning percentages. aside from that I don't know when the Korean stats will be uploaded but I hope they will be done simultaneously in the future so we don't even have to use the International stats to get sense of the balance. that said I can give you the GSL stats. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/7fnEk.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/7m5dY.jpg)
Thanks very interesting. Protoss are definitely doing a lot better this month, even in Korea. Colors are kinda confusing though. T_T
|
On December 06 2011 02:46 Condor Hero wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 02:27 Quotidian wrote:On December 06 2011 00:48 PredY wrote:On December 06 2011 00:44 eYeball wrote:On December 06 2011 00:19 decaf wrote:
So basically we have a really well balanced game right now. Who else is waiting for HOTS to destroy this? David Kim and Dustin Browder. It would be so sad if it would take another year of balance to get it to this again. tbh, i can't wait for hots. tvp is such a bullshit (design wise) I can't see anything in HOTS that is really going to change tvp, except maybe the battle hellion - but at top levels, I'm guessing stim micro is still the better way to go, considering how slow transformed hellions are. Protoss will still generally be too a-move friendly (that's Blizzard's intention with the colossus after all), and terran still gets no real advantage from holding a position with siege tanks. If the match up changes at all, it'll still be blob vs blob, just with a couple different units and a more cumbersome upgrade path for terran. What's worse, the air terran styles will be even less effective with the air to air splash of the tempest, and the Replicant will kill any tech heavy terran opening. No, mmm will still be the de facto way to play tvp in HOTS. As a Protoss I'm scared shitless of the Battle Hellion. In late game PvT, the only thing that can't die instantly in mass Zealots and Hellion with spray aoe would just demolish that. Hopefully the factories and upgrades needed won't make Hellions easily massable with the Bioball.
We can only hope that the AOE is short enough that it doesn't stack well. Otherwise, I can see a ball of those being unkillable without an AOE of some sort, since stalker and immortals will lack the necessary DPS to deal with some massed battle hellions.
But they might be slow enough where the zealots can outflank them and hit the soft center(seige tanks and warhounds) of this fictional Mech army. Really, that sounds like a more intresting game that MMMVG.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
