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On December 06 2011 03:34 SafeAsCheese wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 03:28 syllabic wrote:
Maybe they'll finally buff terran now, and we won't see 1 terran for every 5 zergs and 4 protoss on ladder anymore. The game should be balanced around pro level, not randscum ladder level. If terran are still owning up the top tourneys, then they can't justify big buffs, or the game will be ruined.
Honestly balance and game design for a race can be seperated. The reason there arn't any terran at any of the lower levels (including masters) is because you need such good micro and high apm to win. It is just a game design flaw that they badly need to fix. For me it makes it so frustrating to ladder because I know i will play 7 zergs and 3 protoss every 10 games, and I am sick of having no variety, so I have stopped laddering recently.
I would bet other terrans have stopped as well or swapped races which I have considered doing, but then I would play 7zvzs every 10 games which would be just as bad. More of an overall game design flaw than a direct balance issue.
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On December 06 2011 03:57 XRaDiiX wrote:
This Graph is actually absurdly deceiving for November look at the Terran vs Protoss win Rate and Look at the Zerg Vs Protoss win Rate
At the End of the Graph for ZvP It's Zoomed in as too make it look like a much larger Disparity in balance in PvZ compared to TvP When in actuality the numbers are pretty similar
54.2% Protoss win | 45.8 % Terran win-rate | November
53.5% Zerg Win | 46.5 % Protoss Win-Rate| November
If anything ZvP is Closer Balanced than TvP according to the Graph Numbers but yet the Lines Show ZvP at a Huge Disparity?
Can anyone not see how the path the lines take on the Graphs can be deceiving if you look closely you'll see the Lines make it look like ZvP is worse when its actually pretty close to TvP Win-Rate Even more Balanced Actually *According the the Graphs*
It's a moving average. If it's confusing, just ignore the lines and focus on the bars, which is what you should be doing anyways.
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Switzerland2892 Posts
On December 06 2011 03:57 XRaDiiX wrote:
This Graph is actually absurdly deceiving for November look at the Terran vs Protoss win Rate and Look at the Zerg Vs Protoss win Rate
At the End of the Graph for ZvP It's Zoomed in as too make it look like a much larger Disparity in balance in PvZ compared to TvP When in actuality the numbers are pretty similar
Read what's written under the graph
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On December 06 2011 04:04 Raambo11 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 03:34 SafeAsCheese wrote:On December 06 2011 03:28 syllabic wrote:
Maybe they'll finally buff terran now, and we won't see 1 terran for every 5 zergs and 4 protoss on ladder anymore. The game should be balanced around pro level, not randscum ladder level. If terran are still owning up the top tourneys, then they can't justify big buffs, or the game will be ruined. Honestly balance and game design for a race can be seperated. The reason there arn't any terran at any of the lower levels (including masters) is because you need such good micro and high apm to win. It is just a game design flaw that they badly need to fix. For me it makes it so frustrating to ladder because I know i will play 7 zergs and 3 protoss every 10 games, and I am sick of having no variety, so I have stopped laddering recently. I would bet other terrans have stopped as well or swapped races which I have considered doing, but then I would play 7zvzs every 10 games which would be just as bad. More of an overall game design flaw than a direct balance issue.
Why is needing good micro and multitasking to win a design flaw? That just means you need to be able to micro to play at the most basic level.
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On December 06 2011 04:04 Raambo11 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 03:34 SafeAsCheese wrote:On December 06 2011 03:28 syllabic wrote:
Maybe they'll finally buff terran now, and we won't see 1 terran for every 5 zergs and 4 protoss on ladder anymore. The game should be balanced around pro level, not randscum ladder level. If terran are still owning up the top tourneys, then they can't justify big buffs, or the game will be ruined. Honestly balance and game design for a race can be seperated. The reason there arn't any terran at any of the lower levels (including masters) is because you need such good micro and high apm to win. It is just a game design flaw that they badly need to fix. For me it makes it so frustrating to ladder because I know i will play 7 zergs and 3 protoss every 10 games, and I am sick of having no variety, so I have stopped laddering recently. I would bet other terrans have stopped as well or swapped races which I have considered doing, but then I would play 7zvzs every 10 games which would be just as bad. More of an overall game design flaw than a direct balance issue.
According to sc2ranks the race distribution is actually close to being even in most of the divisions.
http://www.sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/1/all
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for the first time ever... Terran has dropped under 50% :O
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On December 06 2011 02:27 Quotidian wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 00:48 PredY wrote:On December 06 2011 00:44 eYeball wrote:On December 06 2011 00:19 decaf wrote:
So basically we have a really well balanced game right now. Who else is waiting for HOTS to destroy this? David Kim and Dustin Browder. It would be so sad if it would take another year of balance to get it to this again.  tbh, i can't wait for hots. tvp is such a bullshit (design wise) I can't see anything in HOTS that is really going to change tvp, except maybe the battle hellion - but at top levels, I'm guessing stim micro is still the better way to go, considering how slow transformed hellions are. Protoss will still generally be too a-move friendly (that's Blizzard's intention with the colossus after all), and terran still gets no real advantage from holding a position with siege tanks. If the match up changes at all, it'll still be blob vs blob, just with a couple different units and a more cumbersome upgrade path for terran. What's worse, the air terran styles will be even less effective with the air to air splash of the tempest, and the Replicant will kill any tech heavy terran opening. No, mmm will still be the de facto way to play tvp in HOTS.
hm im still hopeful
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On December 06 2011 04:10 pPingu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 03:57 XRaDiiX wrote:
This Graph is actually absurdly deceiving for November look at the Terran vs Protoss win Rate and Look at the Zerg Vs Protoss win Rate
At the End of the Graph for ZvP It's Zoomed in as too make it look like a much larger Disparity in balance in PvZ compared to TvP When in actuality the numbers are pretty similar Read what's written under the graph
Thanks i see it now Trend lines are based on average moving of 3 months damn. Looks deceiving though.
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they need to just stop with TLPD crap. it does nothing but fuel controversy
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toss doing better lately
besides korean terrans PvT seems to tend a little bit into the protoss favor
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On December 06 2011 00:19 decaf wrote:
So basically we have a really well balanced game right now. Who else is waiting for HOTS to destroy this?
Continue playing WoL? Noone forces you to buy or play HotS!
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Why is terran always the best race in these graphs? SINCE BETA!
I know its a matter of a few percentage, but still this annoys me very much.
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On December 06 2011 04:25 Hetz wrote:
Why is terran always the best race in these graphs? SINCE BETA!
I know its a matter of a few percentage, but still this annoys me very much.
look at the bars... Terran isn't this month (for the first time)
And why? Because Terran had a bunch of OP things at the start of the game, but thanks to blizzard they keep on nerfing such stuff out of the game.
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Pretty sure that Protoss will soon overtake Zerg in the coming months as well given Protoss players are now actually exploring fast third builds and integrating Warp Prisms into their play. New OP race incoming?
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On December 06 2011 04:33 arsenic wrote:
Pretty sure that Protoss will soon overtake Zerg in the coming months as well given Protoss players are now actually exploring fast third builds and integrating Warp Prisms into their play. New OP race incoming?
Yes let's all pre-emptively whine, because the current tears of all three races in the present isn't enough 
Damn Protoss for being OP in 4 months x.x Nerf Zerg in 8 months please! Terran is too strong next year!
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On December 06 2011 04:10 K3Nyy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 04:04 Raambo11 wrote:On December 06 2011 03:34 SafeAsCheese wrote:On December 06 2011 03:28 syllabic wrote:
Maybe they'll finally buff terran now, and we won't see 1 terran for every 5 zergs and 4 protoss on ladder anymore. The game should be balanced around pro level, not randscum ladder level. If terran are still owning up the top tourneys, then they can't justify big buffs, or the game will be ruined. Honestly balance and game design for a race can be seperated. The reason there arn't any terran at any of the lower levels (including masters) is because you need such good micro and high apm to win. It is just a game design flaw that they badly need to fix. For me it makes it so frustrating to ladder because I know i will play 7 zergs and 3 protoss every 10 games, and I am sick of having no variety, so I have stopped laddering recently. I would bet other terrans have stopped as well or swapped races which I have considered doing, but then I would play 7zvzs every 10 games which would be just as bad. More of an overall game design flaw than a direct balance issue. Why is needing good micro and multitasking to win a design flaw? That just means you need to be able to micro to play at the most basic level.
+ Show Spoiler +It's definitly not a design flaw, at least in the GM / Masterleague. Im only plat, im bad & a noob terran, but it can be pretty frustrating, when i see the protoss a-moving his 3/0/3 army while im only at 1/1 with 2/2 on the way, trying to split my army so they dont take too much damage. Sure, you can prevent that with scouting, dropping on the forges and other shannanigans. But i just dont have the APM & Multitasking for it.
Overall I'm pretty happy, that the protoss are doing better, I hope it stays the way as it is at the moment. The EMP change was definitly necessary. The reduce of the upgradecosts wasnt really a big one, but suddently P realise, that you can do good thinks with chronoboosts & double forge.
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On December 06 2011 04:25 Hetz wrote:
Why is terran always the best race in these graphs? SINCE BETA!
I know its a matter of a few percentage, but still this annoys me very much.
It might help for you to actually read the graph. >.<
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On December 06 2011 04:36 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 04:33 arsenic wrote:
Pretty sure that Protoss will soon overtake Zerg in the coming months as well given Protoss players are now actually exploring fast third builds and integrating Warp Prisms into their play. New OP race incoming? Yes let's all pre-emptively whine, because the current tears of all three races in the present isn't enough Damn Protoss for being OP in 4 months x.x Nerf Zerg in 8 months please! Terran is too strong next year!
Actually, I think it will only take 3months! Better nerf those OP probes right away... 
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Seems nicely balanced. Why are so many people whinning? Are they just watching the lines?
Welp, the whinning will never stop anyways.Everybody thinks their race is the hardest and that others get free wins haha
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On December 06 2011 04:25 robih wrote:
toss doing better lately
besides korean terrans PvT seems to tend a little bit into the protoss favor
protoss favored good joke.
may be not as terran favored as the past year may.
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EPT
