• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 03:15
CEST 09:15
KST 16:15
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week6[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed16Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission extension3Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced7
StarCraft 2
General
The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Who will win EWC 2025? The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo)
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome
Brood War
General
Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion Soulkey Muta Micro Map? [ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues CSL Xiamen International Invitational 2025 ACS Season 2 Qualifier Cosmonarchy Pro Showmatches
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project The PlayStation 5
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Summer Games Done Quick 2025!
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 693 users

[Nov] TLPD Race Winrate Graphs - Page 16

Forum Index > SC2 General
798 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 14 15 16 17 18 40 Next All
KiLL_ORdeR
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States1518 Posts
December 05 2011 20:05 GMT
#301
Why are the stats for koreans included with foreigners? Should be separate imo since it's pretty well known that korean terrans > everyone else.
In order to move forward, we must rid ourselves of that which holds us back. Check out my stream and give me tips! twitch.tv/intotheskyy
TheBomb
Profile Joined October 2011
237 Posts
December 05 2011 20:12 GMT
#302
Decent results.

Of course in HOTS I'd like to see the Colossus, mothership, roach, corruptor, thor and marauder gone and some more strategic and harder to use, but more payoff if you know how to use them units, similarly to the reaver and lurker!
Starcraft 2 needs LAN support
Erasme
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Bahamas15899 Posts
December 05 2011 20:20 GMT
#303
YEAAAH
We zerg are now ze best !! yeaahahahahaha first time for us ! :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7lxwFEB6FI “‘Drain the swamp’? Stupid saying, means nothing, but you guys loved it so I kept saying it.”
Champ24
Profile Joined August 2010
177 Posts
December 05 2011 20:41 GMT
#304
Holy fuckstick batman. This thread is almost as bad as the bnet one.

Let the game settle down a bit before you commence the whining. The zealot archon double forge paradigm shift took effect not long ago. Don't jump to conclusions.
pPingu
Profile Joined September 2011
Switzerland2892 Posts
December 05 2011 20:46 GMT
#305
On December 06 2011 05:41 Champ24 wrote:
Holy fuckstick batman. This thread is almost as bad as the bnet one.

Let the game settle down a bit before you commence the whining. The zealot archon double forge paradigm shift took effect not long ago. Don't jump to conclusions.


I looked for the bnet thread, my eyes burn...

On December 06 2011 05:12 TheBomb wrote:
Decent results.

Of course in HOTS I'd like to see the Colossus, mothership, roach, corruptor, thor and marauder gone and some more strategic and harder to use, but more payoff if you know how to use them units, similarly to the reaver and lurker!


I think the ms is becoming an interesting unit, particulary in pvz and blizzard should consider keeping it
Ctuchik
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden91 Posts
December 05 2011 20:46 GMT
#306
On December 06 2011 05:05 KiLL_ORdeR wrote:
Why are the stats for koreans included with foreigners? Should be separate imo since it's pretty well known that korean terrans > everyone else.


http://imgur.com/a/ZflZ7#0

Korea only!
http://twitter.com/sc2statistics
S2Lunar
Profile Joined June 2011
1051 Posts
December 05 2011 20:48 GMT
#307
I think these threads should be locked with no comments or not posted at all... it always goes into a balance whine between everyone with verty little to no talk of the metagame and how the statistics shifted.
darkscream
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada2310 Posts
December 05 2011 20:50 GMT
#308
On December 06 2011 05:05 KiLL_ORdeR wrote:
Why are the stats for koreans included with foreigners? Should be separate imo since it's pretty well known that korean terrans > everyone else.


its pretty well known that foreign protoss > everyone else

why so racist bro
pPingu
Profile Joined September 2011
Switzerland2892 Posts
December 05 2011 20:53 GMT
#309
On December 06 2011 05:46 Ctuchik wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2011 05:05 KiLL_ORdeR wrote:
Why are the stats for koreans included with foreigners? Should be separate imo since it's pretty well known that korean terrans > everyone else.


http://imgur.com/a/ZflZ7#0

Korea only!


Protoss doing well in korea, quite the same for pvt

Don't know what to think about tvz, some zergs are doing really well in zvt
SC2ShoWTimE
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany722 Posts
December 05 2011 21:03 GMT
#310
terran below the 50% mark and already that much whine? what will be if they are like 7 months the worst race? lol
just kidding...

glad to see protoss finally doing better. i hope this isnt just a short period.
Progamer
ToInfinity
Profile Joined September 2010
Netherlands61 Posts
December 05 2011 21:03 GMT
#311
On December 06 2011 05:05 KiLL_ORdeR wrote:
Why are the stats for koreans included with foreigners? Should be separate imo since it's pretty well known that korean terrans > everyone else.


dont take your personal opionons as facts?
and let the statistics speak for themselves
JiYan
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3668 Posts
December 05 2011 21:04 GMT
#312
wow nicer month than i thought it was.
Thienan567
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States670 Posts
December 05 2011 21:07 GMT
#313
To the Zerg who are winning ZvP - Teach me your ways. T_T I can never win zvp.
Figgy
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada1788 Posts
December 05 2011 21:10 GMT
#314
On December 05 2011 19:56 Roblin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2011 19:51 Condor wrote:
Very nice as always, so, looking at the difference between lowest and highest winrate, November 2011 seems to be one of the most balanced months, although PvT was swinging massively to make it happen. But any idea why the number of games is so low?

the last month is often low on games in these pictures, my guess is it will be updated with more games.

edit: I have a grin on my face because this is the first time since beta that terran does not have the highest winrate of the three races.


February?

Terran QQ has been around way too long it seems.
Bug Fixes Fixed an issue where, when facing a SlayerS terran, completing a hatchery would cause a medivac and 8 marines to randomly spawn nearby and attack it.
Catatonic
Profile Joined August 2011
United States699 Posts
December 05 2011 21:15 GMT
#315
On December 06 2011 02:24 thezanursic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2011 01:53 Catatonic wrote:
On December 06 2011 00:07 thezanursic wrote:
On December 05 2011 23:59 Catatonic wrote:
On December 05 2011 20:16 red4ce wrote:
So the big question is, how do you balance PvZ without screwing up TvP or vice versa.

Now I could be extreamly wrong an in all likelyhood I am (since im only bronze though I atleast like to believe I have an extensive or atleast very decent knowledge of the game just not the multitasking skills or focus to attain higher lol) but I think what swings the the game in favor of zergs so much are the use of Mutas. On ladder, against friends, and practice partners of varying levels (bronze-med gold) I generally go muta,ling/bling into ultralisks (not gas effecient I know but I feel comfortable going this compo) an I just shut them down with mutas keeping them on 1-2base max until I get ultras out which then just go on a protoss all you can eat buffet binge. The Muta's manuverability and quickness make it easy to demolish mineral lines an tech structures until heavy anti air is invested in which delays the protoss an terren significantly atleast from what iv seen. Though to nerf Muta's would be rather difficult an break zerg's matchup against either race terren or protoss seeing as how its the only truly viable midgame harrass unit since most wall off against lings leaving only drop play an nydas which arent all too viable. Without that harass capability both races would go unchecked an mass up the deathball army to counter what ever zerg is doing every matchup since they'd get it so quickly with the minimal harass. I dont know if im wrong though I can only speak of how it appears to be to myself.

Sorry if thats hard to read, im not the best grammatically and im infamous for run on sentences lol >.< (and a lack of punctuation hence the run ons though >.<) lol

Nerfing mutas isn't the answer. Terrans just have put down 6 turrets to defend. I think turrets could be SLIGHTLY buffed, but there is no reason to not get the turret range upgrade and around 6 turrets it pays of believe it or not it does. I'm not saying turret your main like you see in bronze just put down 6-10 turrets down at the side where mutas come from now only do this if the zerg is going heavy muta obviously don't do this against 10 mutas, but at 30 mutas 10 turrets should trade cost effectively or just keep the zerg from attacking you
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=277047
I would even say it wouldn't be bad to just put down twice as many late game. Turrets aren't just a muta repeller it's also a way to buy time for your marines to arrive.

Though atleast from my experience once I start getting air upgrades which is immediately once the spire is done, turrets get burned down quickly. Around the 10min mark I have 7-9 mutas so I generally see round 3-4 turrets total in the base which i burn quick run out to escape the marines then run back in when they leave. The only thing Iv seen that terren has unless they actually do mass out turrets (which then ill just tech switch) is thors which seem to rip through mutas like a knife through butter (ofcourse meaning the butter isnt a frozen brick). I wasnt saying nerfing mutas was the answer though as it would create an immense imbalance in favor of the other races. Im just saying mutas being as good as they are, are a reason for terran balancing out in the win percentage cause iv seen mutas being used in increasing frequency in all matchups.

When I say a lot of turrets I don't mean surround your base with turrets. What bronze do is retarded they surround their base with a 1 by 1 turret what I'm talking about is having 3-4 turrets standing together. Let's take a look at Xel'naga for instance. When the mutas come out you should be 2 base or you are horrible. Soo 3-4 turrets on the right side of the main 3-4 defending the natural on the left and 3-4 with your production facilities. Even at 30 Mutas 3-4 turrets should take out a few mutas and mutas cost gas so that's bad for zerg. I don't even find it to extreme to incorporate 3 engy bays against muta builds 2 for upgrades and 1 for Building armor/ Turret range and an additional 2 armor on the turrets is actually really good (It also effects the bounces)

Ok I gotcha now, yes clumping them togather would be a drastic improvement over flinging them to the outside permiter of your base. Though thats natural anything clumped togather will naturally do better unless ofcourse AOE (massive AOE like psy storm) come into play. So yes you are indeed correct.
T: DeMuslim SeleCT. P: Naniwa Genius. Z: IdrA Destiny Team: EG
CScythe
Profile Joined June 2009
Canada810 Posts
December 05 2011 21:15 GMT
#316
I wonder what it would look like in 6 months, if there were no patches...I almost feel like it would be even closer to 50%.
sechkie
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States334 Posts
December 05 2011 21:16 GMT
#317
On December 05 2011 20:17 StiX wrote:
Does anyone thinks its funny that in:
PvT Protoss has the better end
ZvT Terran has the better end
ZvP Zerg has the better end
?


this is how general balance in bw was as well. it's probably fine because it worked out okay for broodwar and these small advantages aren't nearly insurmountable.
secretary bird
Profile Joined September 2011
447 Posts
December 05 2011 21:19 GMT
#318
Well these threads basically encourage balance complaints and the graphs that make 1% look like its huge dont really help.

Considering this the percentage of balance whines is really low actually.
forsooth
Profile Joined February 2011
United States3648 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-05 21:23:18
December 05 2011 21:22 GMT
#319
TvP shift is unsurprising. EMP nerf was premature and didn't address any of the weaknesses Protoss actually had. Nerfing Terran's only useful higher tech/AOE unit in the matchup only made the late game more lopsided in favor of Protoss and the continued refinement of anti-1/1/1 openers means less wins. We'll see where this goes, but I'm still not feeling like it's worth it to stop cheesing Protoss on ladder.
fraktoasters
Profile Joined January 2011
United States617 Posts
December 05 2011 21:22 GMT
#320
On December 06 2011 05:53 pPingu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2011 05:46 Ctuchik wrote:
On December 06 2011 05:05 KiLL_ORdeR wrote:
Why are the stats for koreans included with foreigners? Should be separate imo since it's pretty well known that korean terrans > everyone else.


http://imgur.com/a/ZflZ7#0

Korea only!


Protoss doing well in korea, quite the same for pvt

Don't know what to think about tvz, some zergs are doing really well in zvt


Leenock does well in ZvT. Not sure who else you're talking about. DRG and Nestea have more losses in ZvT than wins in this current GSL.
Prev 1 14 15 16 17 18 40 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 45m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 381
StarCraft: Brood War
Backho 149
Dewaltoss 109
sorry 35
ajuk12(nOOB) 27
Shine 22
Dota 2
ODPixel382
XcaliburYe117
League of Legends
JimRising 734
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor113
Other Games
summit1g7253
ROOTCatZ68
Trikslyr22
SortOf6
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2702
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH302
• practicex 32
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2120
League of Legends
• Lourlo1631
• Stunt562
Upcoming Events
CranKy Ducklings
2h 45m
Epic.LAN
4h 45m
CSO Contender
9h 45m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 2h
Online Event
1d 8h
Esports World Cup
3 days
ByuN vs Astrea
Lambo vs HeRoMaRinE
Clem vs TBD
Solar vs Zoun
SHIN vs Reynor
Maru vs TriGGeR
herO vs Lancer
Cure vs ShoWTimE
Esports World Cup
4 days
Esports World Cup
5 days
Esports World Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational: ShowMatche
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

BSL 2v2 Season 3
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
CSL Xiamen Invitational
2025 ACS Season 2
Championship of Russia 2025
Underdog Cup #2
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.