EPTThat's a ridiculous swing, even though these stats can't be taken as gospel truth.
[Nov] TLPD Race Winrate Graphs - Page 10
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WinteRR
Australia201 Posts
That's a ridiculous swing, even though these stats can't be taken as gospel truth. | ||
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Jono7272
United Kingdom6330 Posts
On December 06 2011 00:30 DrowSwordsman wrote: The Protoss and Zerg colors for the graph are way too close. I'm red green colorblind and they look nearly identical. Kinda hurts my head. But as a whole, it's pretty sweet how the balance is. Ridiculous that there's a bunch of Terran whine threads when the hard numbers show the game is balanced. Unless of course balanced means Terran wins 60% of their games. There's a colour blind version. There are not a lot of whine threads. | ||
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GLLvz
Norway122 Posts
On December 05 2011 19:48 Spaceneil8 wrote: Lowest overall Terran win rate ever. Tbh, this leaves me with a little smile on my face.  same | ||
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thezanursic
5497 Posts
On December 06 2011 00:30 DrowSwordsman wrote: The Protoss and Zerg colors for the graph are way too close. I'm red green colorblind and they look nearly identical. Kinda hurts my head. But as a whole, it's pretty sweet how the balance is. Ridiculous that there's a bunch of Terran whine threads when the hard numbers show the game is balanced. Unless of course balanced means Terran wins 60% of their games. I must be blind, but I'm not seeing nearly as many Terran whine posts as there were Z/Ps last months | ||
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HeavenResign
United States702 Posts
On December 06 2011 00:31 Jono7272 wrote: There's a colour blind version.. Whoops. Thanks! | ||
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HeavenResign
United States702 Posts
On December 06 2011 00:33 thezanursic wrote: I must be blind, but I'm not seeing nearly as many Terran whine posts as there were Z/Ps last months I actually edited that once I saw PvT nearly switched places in the last month. I would far from say the matchup is broken (in terms of balance) as the numbers appear to be identical just in reverse places, but I wouldn't use the term balanced either like I did in that post. But in the SC2 discussion there's been multiple ones, just hidden as [D] threads about design when the OP is actually just diamonds complaining that they aren't winning. | ||
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pyrogenetix
China5098 Posts
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Valikyr
Sweden2653 Posts
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HeavenResign
United States702 Posts
On December 06 2011 00:31 WinteRR wrote: T 55% -> 45%. They went and broke TvP. Great. . It's just funny you say that because if that is the truth then that means P went from 45 to 55. Oh wait, they're the same exact numbers meaning that the matchup has always been broken as far as you're concerned. Unless T being favored means that is business as usual :p. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45409 Posts
On December 06 2011 00:29 thezanursic wrote: I wouldn't go that far well balanced isn't the word it's not there yet. Let's take a look what I mean 50.5 % Z overall 50.3 % P overall 49.1 % T overall Looks fine now let's take a look at the specific match ups PvT is 8.4 % favored for P (I think this should be left the way it is we gotta wait a month for it to stablize, but if it doesn't I suggest buff the EMP to 1.75 (2 is to much 1.5 is to little if the MU doesn't change soo 1.75 and is that even possible) ZvT is 4 % favored for T (Leave it this is almost perfect just leave it) PvZ is 7 % favored for Z (Something needs to change Zerg has been dominating this match up for a few months now) I agree that the specific match-ups are vital to look at, as opposed to just the overall win percentage, but there's no way that buffing the most versatile unit in the game that finally got nerfed a tiny bit can be a good thing. Now that the ghost's EMP radius has been decreased, Terran should learn to deal with it (the same way the high templar's storm radius had the exact same nerf- and Protoss learned to figure out PvT... which took forever). I don't know about PvZ. I've read some builds to counter muta-ling (like blink stalkers and storm), and so hopefully it's a matter of unit control on the Protoss's side. You can't really harrass a Zerg in the later stages of the game if they have speedlings and mutalisks, but I hear that they're relatively weak earlier on before mass muta pops out. | ||
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Cycle
United States300 Posts
Seriously, I read through almost every comment as of the first 4 replies on page 10, and it's incredibly frustrating how many players write off the terran race as one that plays itself, or takes no skill, or is easy. I know this comes usually from protoss players, whose results via the TLPD Race Winrate Graphs haven't been stellar in the past, but comments like that aren't really constructive and hurt terran players like me. I was very glad to see Jinro make a response; unfortunately even with pro-status people don't really listen. And the reason why terran players can't whine is because for nearly all of sc2, terran has been considered the OP race. If a terran player says, "Hey man, I've having trouble in this matchup/against this unit comp" what do the other races usually say? "Make more rax, use stim, a-move your marines", and rarely something constructive. Sure, this racism exists against zerg and protoss as well, but terrans have been dealing with it since the beta. When players say that terran takes no skill to play, you take away from all the hard work terran players put into this game. We try just as hard as everyone else to macro and micro at the same time, engage at just the right spots, take expansions when we need to, etc. For those who haven't played terran much at all and just write it off as eZ, just try playing some games for a while. + Show Spoiler [Unnecessary background for me] + I played zerg for 4 months up until diamond league, then switched to terran for a while up until diamond league, then switched to protoss for a while up until diamond league, then played random, then finally decided upon sticking with terran because it fit my need to be aggressive the most. So this post is coming from someone who actually played all the races and is somewhat familiar with basic mechanics and strategies. | ||
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Alpino
Brazil4390 Posts
On December 05 2011 19:56 Roblin wrote: the last month is often low on games in these pictures, my guess is it will be updated with more games. edit: I have a grin on my face because this is the first time since beta that terran does not have the highest winrate of the three races. 2011 february, Protoss has higher winrate. | ||
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Roxy
Canada753 Posts
If it was deemed that protoss was in fact favored vs terran, i think a change to emp would not be warranted. I would suggest that EMP is fine and a different terran buff would be more appropriate. Something that would not affect terran early game but could give them a boost in the late game. perhaps +2 marauder dmg vs light per upgrade or something. very fine line though, once the zealots are gone, the protoss army evaporates faster than broodlords and archons in a toilet. i would actually be more in favor of a mech buff. again, very fine line. imo tanks are a lot stronger than most people give them credit for. people just dont use them rigtht and seige too late. | ||
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Gladiator6
Sweden7024 Posts
On December 06 2011 00:19 decaf wrote: So basically we have a really well balanced game right now. Who else is waiting for HOTS to destroy this? David Kim and Dustin Browder. It would be so sad if it would take another year of balance to get it to this again.  | ||
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Lysanias
Netherlands8351 Posts
Cute stats, just nice to see nothing else to do with it the metagame is way to volitile right now and will be for a while. | ||
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PredY
Czech Republic1731 Posts
On December 06 2011 00:44 eYeball wrote: David Kim and Dustin Browder. It would be so sad if it would take another year of balance to get it to this again. tbh, i can't wait for hots. tvp is such a bullshit (design wise) | ||
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thezanursic
5497 Posts
On December 06 2011 00:43 Roxy wrote: I would suggest that the disparity between PvT is absolutely caused because of the EMP difference, but i would also suggest that it originated because of a correction period, not so much a swing in "balance". I think next months numbers would be a lot more telling about how balanced the match up is. If it was deemed that protoss was in fact favored vs terran, i think a change to emp would not be warranted. I would suggest that EMP is fine and a different terran buff would be more appropriate. Something that would not affect terran early game but could give them a boost in the late game. perhaps +2 marauder dmg vs light per upgrade or something. very fine line though, once the zealots are gone, the protoss army evaporates faster than broodlords and archons in a toilet. i would actually be more in favor of a mech buff. again, very fine line. imo tanks are a lot stronger than most people give them credit for. people just dont use them rigtht and seige too late. +2 Extra against shield per upgrade? or +*insert number* per upgrade. I can't see any way that wouldn't make TvZ more T favored unless a +X against shields Note: I don't want any buffs until we get more information and wait for the terrans to adjust. I mean obviously the EMP nerf will knock down the numbers and will keep them lower than they were before the question is by how much. | ||
pPingu
Switzerland2892 Posts
On December 06 2011 00:48 PredY wrote: tbh, i can't wait for hots. tvp is such a bullshit (design wise) Yeah, really not an exciting mu for the moment, it's really *make an army, win the battle, win*. Just hope balance will not be completly fucked up. | ||
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thezanursic
5497 Posts
On December 06 2011 00:56 pPingu wrote: Yeah, really not an exciting mu for the moment, it's really *make an army, win the battle, win*. Just hope balance will not be completly fucked up. As I said a post above Mech has to do more dmg against shields. | ||
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Sackings
Canada457 Posts
On December 06 2011 00:48 PredY wrote: tbh, i can't wait for hots. tvp is such a bullshit (design wise) protoss design in general is terrible , blizz can still make this game rival BW but units like the tempest are making me lose faith | ||
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