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CocA Incident Handled Correctly? - Page 14

Forum Index > SC2 General
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turamn
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States1374 Posts
November 17 2011 13:00 GMT
#261
I don't really understand why there's any grey area one way or another...match fixing is match fixing. It's pretty much the worst thing you can do in eSports. If he's guilty, then he should be prepared to suffer the most severe of consequences. He's lucky that SC2 isn't KESPA governed, or he might be banned for life.
Chaosvuistje
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands2581 Posts
November 17 2011 13:00 GMT
#262
Matchfixing should be met with fire.
Fire as in lighting the diamond encrusted sigar as you sit on your jetsky made of dollars and gold.

Sure if it was done here in holland he would get a minor tap on the fingers. But I'm not Korean and I don't know jack about what they really look down upon. So I don't see it as a terrible punishment if they really feel like its a bad thing.

All depends on the values
figq
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
12519 Posts
November 17 2011 13:00 GMT
#263
On November 17 2011 21:57 Ganseng wrote:
I think the op misinterprets the accident. in fact, coca helped his teammate get a spot in code a by losing that game and maybe the next one, so there is a clear gain for him in dropping that game.
but i don't feel qualified to judge the severity of the deed and of the punishment.

edit yeahaaa! i'm marine now! ))
There was actually no Code A spot at stake. (see previous posts)
/there should be a bot to post this at every 4-5 posts
If you stand next to my head, you can hear the ocean. - Day[9]
rotegirte
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany2859 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-17 13:08:35
November 17 2011 13:02 GMT
#264
On November 17 2011 21:40 Numy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 17 2011 21:35 Chanted wrote:
I feel that this kind of tournement behaviour should not go unpunished. If they dont strike down on this harsly, more people will be inclined to do similar acts.

Sucks for Cocoa though, but he will bounce back im sure


If he doesn't will we just keep saying "Have to make a scapegoat so others won't do but it sucks for Coca".


Unfortunate, yes. But some do blow the punishment out of proportion. He is not the only one "not on Slayers A-team". It's a reminder to everybody what it takes to earn that privilege. He is not suddenly the outcast being spitted upon. In the KR netizen public, maybe. But none of us really can tell how things are handled internally and especially on a personal level. None of us can tell how he is being treated by Boxer, Cella and Jessica, what they told him exactly. There's a certain sentiment inside TL saying "he'll never make it back". On the other hand, from Slayers' point of view "with such a mentality, one might not have been fit for the A-team anyway".

Forfeiting Code S is a huge deal, I get it. But on the other hand, it's a 2-month ban at the end of the year. Not a life-ban. Plus, there is to be more permeability to be expected with GSL's new format. I feel that's not the important part anyway- for Coca that is. I do imagine being thrown out of the house is the biggest disgrace, Yet again, we can't comment on how things will go on from this point. Is he really being left in the rain by his team? Or is it "show us that you're worth it". He will have to go through internal selections again. Being measured against all the others that are eager to climb up the ranks. Either he comes out on top or some other talent steals the show. At that time, it will be left to the team's upper echelon to judge. But that is part of the everyday process within a team
Masayume
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Netherlands208 Posts
November 17 2011 13:02 GMT
#265
An example had to be made, CoCa and Byun were the ones used to set this example. CoCa is a great Zerg player and will surely climb back up into Code S and continue to own it up, returning to the pro house once he does. They are still young and very skilled, and didn't get booted from the teams so it's fine imo.
Balance. Enjoy the process instead of focusing on musts.
figq
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
12519 Posts
November 17 2011 13:03 GMT
#266
On November 17 2011 22:00 turamn wrote:
I don't really understand why there's any grey area one way or another...match fixing is match fixing. It's pretty much the worst thing you can do in eSports. If he's guilty, then he should be prepared to suffer the most severe of consequences. He's lucky that SC2 isn't KESPA governed, or he might be banned for life.
Because there was no "match-fixing"?
If you stand next to my head, you can hear the ocean. - Day[9]
firehand101
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Australia3152 Posts
November 17 2011 13:06 GMT
#267
You do make it out to be quite appealing on Coca's side of the story, but the fact remains that he did throw the match on purpose. Should we expect to understand why the punishment was so 'harsh'? No, we are not Korean. We are not slayers boxer and we do not play or respect the game nearly as much as they do. Progaming is everything to these people, and match fixing and throwing away matches on purpose even for no gain, shows they do not take their role seriously. I know it may seem harsh to you, but over there this is the easiest way out Coca could have hoped for...
The opinions expressed by our users do not reflect the official position of TeamLiquid.net or its staff.
Falcor
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada894 Posts
November 17 2011 13:09 GMT
#268
i dont see the big deal. It would be different if it was fixing a whole tournament or multi team fixes. But this was just something stupid done during the spur of the moment done between friends. Every sport always has some kind of hey did x team purposfuly let y team win during the late season even tho team x shoulda won easily. Just so team x didnt have to face team z.

Its just this time they litterally spelt it out lol
figq
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
12519 Posts
November 17 2011 13:12 GMT
#269
On November 17 2011 22:06 firehand101 wrote:
throwing away matches on purpose even for no gain, shows they do not take their role seriously.
Not in this case - it was for very serious purpose: self-development and practice (particularly ZvT practice). You can also compare it to people who nuke themselves to demonstrate their advantage (and sometimes lose), but applied to a series in which you would handicap yourself with 1 game to make it more challenging and to extend your practice with 1 more game.
If you stand next to my head, you can hear the ocean. - Day[9]
Ganseng
Profile Joined July 2011
Russian Federation473 Posts
November 17 2011 13:44 GMT
#270
On November 17 2011 21:59 Numy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 17 2011 21:57 Ganseng wrote:
I think the op misinterprets the accident. in fact, coca helped his teammate get a spot in code a by losing that game and maybe the next one, so there is a clear gain for him in dropping that game.
but i don't feel qualified to judge the severity of the deed and of the punishment.


Firstly Byun isn't his teammate. Secondly there was no code A spot up for grabs. So clearly there is no gain for dropping that game. You are the one that misinterprets the situation.

well i was misinformed by this thread:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285566
but now when i read some explanations i still don't see a fair play in this game. it was matchfixing spoken out aloud, no matter for what purpose.
rblstr
Profile Joined February 2011
Ireland398 Posts
November 17 2011 13:47 GMT
#271
On November 17 2011 22:44 Ganseng wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 17 2011 21:59 Numy wrote:
On November 17 2011 21:57 Ganseng wrote:
I think the op misinterprets the accident. in fact, coca helped his teammate get a spot in code a by losing that game and maybe the next one, so there is a clear gain for him in dropping that game.
but i don't feel qualified to judge the severity of the deed and of the punishment.


Firstly Byun isn't his teammate. Secondly there was no code A spot up for grabs. So clearly there is no gain for dropping that game. You are the one that misinterprets the situation.

well i was misinformed by this thread:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285566
but now when i read some explanations i still don't see a fair play in this game. it was matchfixing spoken out aloud, no matter for what purpose.


It wasn't match fixing. It would be match fixing if they went into the game and Coca played bad / made mistakes on purpose in order to lose the game. But he CLEARLY says in the FULL chat log to the game that he didn't care if he win or lost he wanted to forfeit for more practice.
Ganseng
Profile Joined July 2011
Russian Federation473 Posts
November 17 2011 13:53 GMT
#272
On November 17 2011 22:47 rblstr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 17 2011 22:44 Ganseng wrote:
On November 17 2011 21:59 Numy wrote:
On November 17 2011 21:57 Ganseng wrote:
I think the op misinterprets the accident. in fact, coca helped his teammate get a spot in code a by losing that game and maybe the next one, so there is a clear gain for him in dropping that game.
but i don't feel qualified to judge the severity of the deed and of the punishment.


Firstly Byun isn't his teammate. Secondly there was no code A spot up for grabs. So clearly there is no gain for dropping that game. You are the one that misinterprets the situation.

well i was misinformed by this thread:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285566
but now when i read some explanations i still don't see a fair play in this game. it was matchfixing spoken out aloud, no matter for what purpose.


It wasn't match fixing. It would be match fixing if they went into the game and Coca played bad / made mistakes on purpose in order to lose the game. But he CLEARLY says in the FULL chat log to the game that he didn't care if he win or lost he wanted to forfeit for more practice.

i don't see principal difference here. press surrender button without any reason to do so or make moves on purpose that will lead you to defeat is the same for me.
he didn't make any secret out of his intentions, yes it's true. but even if you don't make a secret of your misdemeanour, it's still misdemeanour.
if you want more practice, you can always play customs. if you play in a televised tournament, be so nice and show a gg.
Frankon
Profile Joined May 2010
3054 Posts
November 17 2011 13:57 GMT
#273
even if this wasn't match-fixing (which some people try to prove) there is still a issue of players acting in a way inappropriate for a progamer... Remember Choya got banned by GOM for playing rock paper scissors on blizzard ladder in pvp.
adun12345
Profile Joined May 2011
United States198 Posts
November 17 2011 13:57 GMT
#274
This sort of behavior is entirely inconsistent with any sense of professional ethics on the part of the players - if you want to call yourself a "progamer," then you need to act like a professional. For a progamer, an important component of professional behavior is living up to the expectations of your fans, your tournament, your team, and your sponsors to play the best games of Starcraft (or any other game) you possibly can. Throwing a match, whether through per-meditation or a spur-of-the-moment desire to goof off, is nothing short of a betrayal of that expectation. There are plenty of venues for less serious play. In a professional tournament environment, that kind of behavior is entirely unacceptable.

It's good to see these players' teams taking an active role in enforcing professional standards in their players' conduct. Continuing to foster an atmosphere of professionalism is important to the future growth of the E-Sports scene.
rblstr
Profile Joined February 2011
Ireland398 Posts
November 17 2011 13:57 GMT
#275
On November 17 2011 22:53 Ganseng wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 17 2011 22:47 rblstr wrote:
On November 17 2011 22:44 Ganseng wrote:
On November 17 2011 21:59 Numy wrote:
On November 17 2011 21:57 Ganseng wrote:
I think the op misinterprets the accident. in fact, coca helped his teammate get a spot in code a by losing that game and maybe the next one, so there is a clear gain for him in dropping that game.
but i don't feel qualified to judge the severity of the deed and of the punishment.


Firstly Byun isn't his teammate. Secondly there was no code A spot up for grabs. So clearly there is no gain for dropping that game. You are the one that misinterprets the situation.

well i was misinformed by this thread:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285566
but now when i read some explanations i still don't see a fair play in this game. it was matchfixing spoken out aloud, no matter for what purpose.


It wasn't match fixing. It would be match fixing if they went into the game and Coca played bad / made mistakes on purpose in order to lose the game. But he CLEARLY says in the FULL chat log to the game that he didn't care if he win or lost he wanted to forfeit for more practice.

i don't see principal difference here. press surrender button without any reason to do so or make moves on purpose that will lead you to defeat is the same for me.
he didn't make any secret out of his intentions, yes it's true. but even if you don't make a secret of your misdemeanour, it's still misdemeanour.
if you want more practice, you can always play customs. if you play in a televised tournament, be so nice and show a gg.


He did show a gg, thats the point.. He played all the matches and they were submitted to be casted. They were good games too, both players playing to win. At the end of the day why do we accept player A surrendering to player B as player B winning even if player A has won the game?
bubblegumbo
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Taiwan1296 Posts
November 17 2011 13:58 GMT
#276
I think as long as he is allowed to come back again to play in big tournaments after a period of reflection then it should be fine, this is definitely not as bad as the Savior and co. incident, but they should be disciplined in someway without ruining their progaming career completely.
"I honestly think that whoever invented toilet paper is a genius. For man to survive, they need toilet paper!"- Nal_rA
whitefluff
Profile Joined November 2011
United States22 Posts
November 17 2011 13:59 GMT
#277
Honestly, the punishment is not even remotely severe. Coca was not cut entirely from slayers, merely placed on the B team.

This is not the end of his career (I hope). It is merely a lesson that in a competitive environment, any form of intentional loss is unacceptable.

And lets be honest. In January, who here believes they won't be seeing coca on the SlayerS A team again? I mean really people.
MarineKingPrime is my favorite terran!
ishboh
Profile Joined October 2010
United States954 Posts
November 17 2011 14:00 GMT
#278
i think that is completely reasonable that he be taken from code S and for him to have to re-earn his spot. match fixing is serious business.

If he is willing to throw a match to help a friend get into code S, then he deserves to have his code S status taken away.
rblstr
Profile Joined February 2011
Ireland398 Posts
November 17 2011 14:03 GMT
#279
On November 17 2011 23:00 ishboh wrote:
i think that is completely reasonable that he be taken from code S and for him to have to re-earn his spot. match fixing is serious business.

If he is willing to throw a match to help a friend get into code S, then he deserves to have his code S status taken away.


Please read the whole thread before posting please. Nothing you said is true and its only adding to the misinformation already floating around these threads.
Silvanel
Profile Blog Joined March 2003
Poland4769 Posts
November 17 2011 14:03 GMT
#280
Punishment is not to severe. It is just right. No excuses for such behavior.
Pathetic Greta hater.
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