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So many people who have not even watched the match, and have not investigated what actually happened; and are still using the word "match-fixing".
On November 17 2011 18:25 Frankon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 18:00 zhurai wrote:On November 17 2011 17:56 Frankon wrote:The OP is missing a poll. Poll: Was Coca/Byun behaviour suitable for a professional player? no (35) 83% yes (7) 17% 42 total votes Your vote: Was Coca/Byun behaviour suitable for a professional player? (Vote): yes
(Vote): no
Oh my. someone actually voted yes D: >_< (@Frankon: I hope this poll is about the ACTIONS of CoCa+Byun... in _doing_ the match fixing, because it might be not clear.... if so.... o_o at the yes) this thread is silly matchfixing is bad End of story. Yes it was about that match. Sadly the input limit in the Poll made me clear that part. The behavior is suitable for a professional player, if they play a practice session. The mistake was treating this particular situation as a practice session. That's why the only punishment should be from the tournament itself, for the disrespect.
(and even it's not too excessive - ban until January)
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You realise stuff like this will go on all the time in tournaments which don't matter.
I dont even see what the problem is, its not like ppl were making bets upon the game so whether he wants to win or lose a game is completely up to him. If whoever ran this tourney is pissed that some players dont take it seriously they should just not invite them or whatever.
Seems retarded such a big deal is made out of something so trivial. Some people need to get things into perspective.
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Why yes this is a stupid mistake made by a couple of young guys, it is absolutely unforgivable in this industry. Its exactly what Artosis said during the GSL when they got to Coca's group.
He called it unprofessional and rude, while that particular tournament may not be watched as much as the GSL by the Foreign community, it is by the Koreans and also that tournaments reward is a Code A spot. I agree that it isn't match fixing of any serious kind but it does seem quite suspicious considering that Byun needs a code A spot, Coca doesn't. Regardless of what tournament it is these players should be completely professional in every single appearance they make. Remember that they are wearing their Teams name and all of their sponsors names in every single appearance and that it is their job to fight, to play the sport.
I wish none of this happened because tbh I actually loved Coca and was going to be cheering for him along with MVP in their Code S group. Yes its life changing, its meant to be.
tldr;
He didn't do his job, on purpose. Punishment deserved. For the Pros this is not a game, this is a professional sport and business and he represents one of the best in SlayerS. He needs to be 100% professional.
Edit: Even if a Code A spot is not a reward it doesn't make any difference. Footballers are not sponsored/employed to allow the opposite team to score. F1 Drivers are not sponsored/employed to allow the opposition to overtake them. This may not be fully accepted as a sport in the West yet, but in Korea it absolutely is and I would like it to be here as well. Part of it being accepted as a sport is maintaining certain standards.
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Obviously Coca needed to be shown his place and the reaction is somehow justified because people will not resort to cheating in games or giving others wins. Sort of like if the police catches an underage smoking and has him suspended from school, taken away from home and his is life ruined. It's toying with another persons career but others will see that it's not worth doing. I think I would give Coca a less severe punishment but I can see why GOM and ESV decided otherwise.
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Edited my post. It makes no difference if that was the reward or not.
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On November 17 2011 16:06 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 13:36 ZorBa.G wrote:On November 17 2011 12:36 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:On November 17 2011 12:00 VPCursed wrote:On November 17 2011 11:46 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:
Yes, "Starcraft 2 players throw games when against friends for fun and practice" is not an association I want.
In fact, thanks to this thread, I'm having serious doubts if I want to continue associating myself and my company with this community and even Blizzard Entertainment given their lack of action despite charging serious sums from organizers. good riddance imo. I see that you are a progamer yourself. Therefore your words carry some weight in this community. I have also taken into account of posters from Singapore and their opinion on this incident. I have thus decided to cancel business plans for a US$120,000 Winner-take-all tournament operating out of Singapore on Blizzard's SEA server due to the lack of professionalism by both the professional community and their fan base. Edit: Grammar. What, is this guy trolling? If you were seriously someone looking to associate your company with the community, you wouldn't get involved with these types of threads. It's very unprofessional. However, if your serious. This is actually a loss since nothing big ever happens on the SEA server..... like ever.... lol. My sole reason for involving myself in these threads is to steer the community in a direction that is palatable to the general public. My posts reflect that. When a member of VP Gamers goes on a thread such as this one to tell a potential organiser he is not welcome in addition to the responses in the poll results of both this and the "SlayerSCoca forfeits Code S" thread, it is not possible in this climate to organise an event of the caliber I was planning. To seek corporate sponsorship for an event that may be thrown by the participants colluding among themselves to split the prize money when stakeholders expect otherwise is wrong. The perception of "How can playing computer games be a sport?" is changed because of the argument, "Because they practice long and hard to give their best every game regardless of the prize or opponent." How am I to answer my sponsors when they see SlayerSCoca's chat: "I'll let you win."? Say he's just a kid? That's he's just practicing? That it is good he's doing it openly? It is only match fixing if he planned it before the start of the event/no money was involved? The prize is too small to play seriously? (Some of the arguments posted) Let us not forget also, the recent PPSL fiasco. But as long as the community puts the needs of the player above the sport (eSports), I cannot see myself producing an event at this present time given the current conditions. Edit: Missing stuff.
You're either an excellent troll or a terrible businessman.
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I don't get it...
Sure, what Coca did was stupid in hindsight, but it is a far cry from match fixing and hell, it could even be a great gesture of sportsmanship. All I see Coca did was giving his friend a second shot at winning a match that I am betting Coca was pretty confident in winning. After dropping game 2 Coca still tries pretty hard to win game three. Not like he actually purposely drop game three afterward just so his friend can get another shot.
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whatever reason there is, throwing a game is wrong. You can't base it on the intent of the person as it can be hidden. With that logic, people can throw games left and right and just say "i just want more practice". It was a right punishment. We can't let these things slip.
It wasn't premeditated, but that part is also bad as someone was so willing to just leave or forfeit a game for whatever reason. It does not create entertainment and would hurt e-sports. Imagine if this wasn't punished. How could you punish the next guy who does that? He'd simply point to this one and say it was unfair if they'd be punished while the previous person didn't.
It was the right choice. Right gravity, as it was not premeditated or for any personal gain.
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I see it as differences in culture and cultural viewpoints.
I also feel the whole commotion in Kr, is due to the sheer lack of professionalism and disrespect for the tournament/game. Respect is generally a big deal in Asian societies.
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On November 17 2011 18:53 sOda~ wrote:
You realise stuff like this will go on all the time in tournaments which don't matter.
I dont even see what the problem is, its not like ppl were making bets upon the game so whether he wants to win or lose a game is completely up to him. If whoever ran this tourney is pissed that some players dont take it seriously they should just not invite them or whatever.
Seems retarded such a big deal is made out of something so trivial. Some people need to get things into perspective.
Good to know that there are tournaments that dont matter. We should get rid of them.
Then we would be left only with GSL, DH, IEMs and some MLG's...
And in a year SC2 would be dead in the west.
Those "tournaments which don't matter" are providing the scene with fresh blood. Without them we would be left only with old sc:bw progamers.
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I really do not understand how people think what coca did was ok regardless of his need/desire for practice?
He entered a tournament and he broke the rules of course he deserved to be punished for it! He gave up his code s spot and quite rightly so and I trust the slayers coach and staff will deal with him as they see fit which is their right as he's contracted to them.
The people saying this is all for boxer to save face seem wide of the mark it's more to the point these two are being made an example of so this sort of thing doesn't become more widespread throughout the starcraft community which is undeniably a good thing.
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Punishment was too hard, dropping Code S was more then enough punishment, but putting him on B team was stupid.
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i believe it was handled correctly
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On November 17 2011 19:11 Tristran wrote:Edited my post. It makes no difference if that was the reward or not. It only makes difference as much as what happened within this tournament shouldn't be involved with the GSL in any way. The rest of your argument just doesn't apply to the situation, which was that Coca needed Terran practice (next opponent was Protoss) in the absence of his Terran teammates, so he would have forfeited the match anyway due to schedule conflicts - which is fine, and in fact only 6 of the 16 matches of this round were really played (counting this one). So, to get one more game of ZvT practice, he conceded at the end of the 2nd game. They could have not sent the silly replays anyway, but probably thought it would be entertaining - and it was, because the games were not staged (the match wasn't rigged or anything).
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We must remember that CoCa, being part of a team and a tournament has obligations to several parties:
(1) to his team to always show professionalism in and out of the team house;
(2) to the sponsors of his team, who gives them food and money to help them focus on practicing the game only;
(3) to the sponsors of the tournament, who gave cash, among other things, so that this tournament would be held;
(4) to the tournament organizers, who worked hard to set this tournament up for them to play in; and
(5) to the fans, who want to witness the highest level of game play and professionalism that is demanded.
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You have to understand the culture is much much different then here in US or in Europe.. It's all about honor and respect. What CoCa did IMO was very dishonorable and there is no bigger insult then to dishonor the great SlayerS team, as well as his coach, fans, sponsors, etc.
I feel stepping down from Code S and skipping a few tournaments is a rightful punishment.
Understandably he probably didn't think it was a big deal but truthfully it's all about playing with honor and having respect for the game,
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I think this is all kind of stupid to be honest. Players in group stages always throw games in favor of helping certain players through or denying other players through to help them or their teammates in the next bracket stages of tournies since BW. Just because they actually typed it out now it's all the sudden a big deal.
Maybe I am misunderstanding what is the issue but if that's it its kind of dumb and should be left alone. no punishment.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
On November 17 2011 19:55 SpoR wrote:
I think this is all kind of stupid to be honest. Players in group stages always throw games in favor of helping certain players through or denying other players through to help them or their teammates in the next bracket stages of tournies since BW. Just because they actually typed it out now it's all the sudden a big deal.
Maybe I am misunderstanding what is the issue but if that's it its kind of dumb and should be left alone. no punishment.
it's impressive how consistently retarded you are, you never miss a beat
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(1) You don't trow games in televised matches, at least not like that.
(2) You don't use curse words in televised matches, just for fun.
(3) for practice you can play custom
(4) It isn't even close related to the White-Ra event. Making that statement makes your post biased as hell, and makes you look silly.
1 Season and he can be back in Code S. he made a BIG mistake and he deserves this punishment 100%.
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EPT
