CocA Incident Handled Correctly? - Page 11

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qwaykee

Norway266 Posts

November 17 2011 08:17 GMT

#201

As a non-korean I think it's quite the punishment.
As a korean I think it is justified.

mierin

United States4943 Posts

November 17 2011 08:27 GMT

#202

I think NesTea summed it up perfectly when he tweeted "those guys have no brains" or something of the like. It's ridiculous how either one of them thought they'd end up unscathed. Imagine if Jaedong were like, "hey Flash lose this set so we can get more TvZ practice." It's laughable...no real professional does things like that.

sixfour

England11061 Posts

November 17 2011 08:32 GMT

#203

On November 17 2011 17:27 mierin wrote:
I think NesTea summed it up perfectly when he tweeted "those guys have no brains" or something of the like. It's ridiculous how either one of them thought they'd end up unscathed. Imagine if Jaedong were like, "hey Flash lose this set so we can get more TvZ practice." It's laughable...no real professional does things like that.

I'd be delighted that there's more than one BW competition going on tbqh

vrok

Sweden2541 Posts

November 17 2011 08:33 GMT

#204

Threads like these make me rage at the amount of morons that think match fixing is OK and make excuses for it. Apparently, since he got punished, it's NOT OK for a professional to throw games. Get the message through your head already.

Telcontar

United Kingdom16710 Posts

November 17 2011 08:36 GMT

#205

Though it might seem harsh to us, you have to realise that the koreans have zero tolerance for this kind of behaviour. The SlayerS team especially seems keen on maintaning very professional standards and they've treated it as a serious breach of conduct. Are they justified in what they did? Yes. Why? Because technically CoCa and Byun did fix the outcome of the match. Sure they were just messing around and it was stupidity not maliciousness that drove them to act this way, but the end result was the same. Was it a tad harsh? Yes. Being sent home, forfeting code s, and not being allowed to participate in any tournaments until further notice is very severe. However, I do think an example needed to be made here that any kind of screwing around for whatever the reason is not acceptable.

One thing I don't like is how CoCa's getting most of the flak when it was Byun who repeatedly asked him to leave the game. Yes, CoCa was wrong for granting Byun's favour, but a player shouldn't be asking their opposition to leave even if it's your close friend. He's just as guilty, if not more of this brainless act. He's very lucky that he had much less to lose.

Lavi

Bangladesh793 Posts

November 17 2011 08:37 GMT

#206

I think slayers did the right thing. If slayer didn't take quick measure, then gsl might of done even crazier stuff since the korean community seems to be going crazy over it. Boxer is just giving coca tough love and saved him from mr.chae full anger.

Frankon

3054 Posts

November 17 2011 08:56 GMT

#207

The OP is missing a poll.

Poll: Was Coca/Byun behaviour suitable for a professional player?

no (35)

83%

yes (7)

17%

42 total votes

Your vote: Was Coca/Byun behaviour suitable for a professional player?

(Vote): yes
(Vote): no

The question is about that one series in ESV Korean Weekly (due to the constraint it had to be omitted from the poll)

starcraft911

Korea (South)1263 Posts

November 17 2011 08:57 GMT

#208

On November 17 2011 10:05 ohampatu wrote:
Pro's do this all the time, they plan around their maps, and will lose/create stupid builds/not try on maps they dont plan on winning.

You're out of your mind if you believe that pros go into matches without the intention of winning. They might try a build that is a "long shot" but they don't go into a game and WIN and then leave. Then they don't go on to LOSE the series. This isn't normal behavior and I think your judgement is highly suspect if you believe it is.

As a fan of s-sports and some traditional sports, the highlights that resonate in my mind are the matches that are full of tense moments where you don't know who is going to prevail and having someone take a dive is the exact opposite. It takes the value of it and lowers it.

I think SlayerS did the right thing. You can't have someone repping your team go out and do something like that and allow them to go unpunished. It sends the wrong message and SlayerS is a team of integrity.

zhurai

United States5660 Posts

November 17 2011 09:00 GMT

#209

On November 17 2011 17:56 Frankon wrote:
The OP is missing a poll.

Poll: Was Coca/Byun behaviour suitable for a professional player?

no (35)

83%

yes (7)

17%

42 total votes

Your vote: Was Coca/Byun behaviour suitable for a professional player?

(Vote): yes
(Vote): no

Oh my. someone actually voted yes D:

>_<

(@Frankon: I hope this poll is about the ACTIONS of CoCa+Byun... in _doing_ the match fixing, because it might be not clear.... if so.... o_o at the yes)

this thread is silly

matchfixing is bad End of story.

nam nam

Sweden4672 Posts

November 17 2011 09:01 GMT

#210

I think it was properly handled. You'd send a horrible message if you just let them of with a slap on the wrist.

obsKura

Ireland1061 Posts

November 17 2011 09:01 GMT

#211

I don't think it is ok to let the poor kid forfeit his Code S spot. He earned the spot himself through hard work and skill so he should keep it. I totally understand that SlayerS need to punish him, I think to let him not participate in any tourneys for a specific time frame and maybe also to promote him to their A team is justified and he will get it but come on. He is a 17 year old kid who made a stupid mistake. Looking on the mistake itself you see how silly it was to do this even in public on a chat of a tourney. I think we all agree on this that they we're both just not thinking about this and what they would really do with this BUt come on, give the kid his hard earned Code S spot back. :'(

simansh

257 Posts

November 17 2011 09:06 GMT

#212

I think there's 2 things going on here:

1 Korean culture. Koreans have more discipline and are more used to harsher punishment, anyone with korean parents will tell you.
2 Match fixing: for the sc2 players, BW recently got hurt a lot by a match fixing scandal. They are trying everything they can to not make e-sports have an image of 'a bunch of matchfixers'.

Hattori_Hanzo

Singapore1229 Posts

November 17 2011 09:07 GMT

#213

On November 17 2011 17:08 ZorBa.G wrote:

Show nested quote +

On November 17 2011 16:06 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:

On November 17 2011 13:36 ZorBa.G wrote:

On November 17 2011 12:36 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:

On November 17 2011 12:00 VPCursed wrote:

On November 17 2011 11:46 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:
Yes, "Starcraft 2 players throw games when against friends for fun and practice" is not an association I want.

In fact, thanks to this thread, I'm having serious doubts if I want to continue associating myself and my company with this community and even Blizzard Entertainment given their lack of action despite charging serious sums from organizers.

good riddance imo.

I see that you are a progamer yourself.

Therefore your words carry some weight in this community.
I have also taken into account of posters from Singapore and their opinion on this incident.

I have thus decided to cancel business plans for a US$120,000 Winner-take-all tournament operating out of Singapore on Blizzard's SEA server due to the lack of professionalism by both the professional community and their fan base.

Edit: Grammar.

What, is this guy trolling? If you were seriously someone looking to associate your company with the community, you wouldn't get involved with these types of threads. It's very unprofessional.

However, if your serious. This is actually a loss since nothing big ever happens on the SEA server..... like ever....

lol.

My sole reason for involving myself in these threads is to steer the community in a direction that is palatable to the general public. My posts reflect that. When a member of VP Gamers goes on a thread such as this one to tell a potential organiser he is not welcome in addition to the responses in the poll results of both this and the "SlayerSCoca forfeits Code S" thread, it is not possible in this climate to organise an event of the caliber I was planning.

To seek corporate sponsorship for an event that may be thrown by the participants colluding among themselves to split the prize money when stakeholders expect otherwise is wrong. The perception of "How can playing computer games be a sport?" is changed because of the argument, "Because they practice long and hard to give their best every game regardless of the prize or opponent."

How am I to answer my sponsors when they see SlayerSCoca's chat: "I'll let you win."?
Say he's just a kid? That's he's just practicing? That it is good he's doing it openly? It is only match fixing if he planned it before the start of the event/no money was involved? The prize is too small to play seriously? (Some of the arguments posted)

Let us not forget also, the recent PPSL fiasco.

But as long as the community puts the needs of the player above the sport (eSports), I cannot see myself producing an event at this present time given the current conditions.

Edit: Missing stuff.

I'm sorry buddy, you could be telling the truth. But for some reason I just do not believe you.

Also, I always thought what goes on within the competition shouldn't even bother sponsors. After all, it's just business. As long as there is exposure, that is all what counts. It's all about making money, if you are looking into sponsoring e-sports, SC2 is your best bet. No other game even comes close to what Starcraft has achieved. Please don't say it's not just about making money, because if it wasn't..... we would see bronze players sponsored. Why don't we see bronze players sponsored? Because no one cares about them and cbf watching their streams (no exposure for sponsors).

Now, for a business man like you to let a little hiccup like this deter you away from providing an investment. You obviously can not see the bigger picture. For 1 comment from a pro gamer and a small hiccup like this dilemma to deter you away..... it's kinda weak. I thought someone of your caliber would be smart enough to realise that this is only the minority, you need to open up your eyes to see how big the SC2 community really is.

I'm quiet disappointed that something so small can deter you away, really.

I wish to address your points as they are good questions:
a) regarding what goes on in a competition does not bother sponsors, it is a wrong assumption, sponsors spend good money to associate themselves with prestigious events and to be viewed favourably by the fans of said sponsored events. Any event that I bring to my clients must be above suspicion and satisfy my standards of conduct.

b) I agree SC2 has achieved a lot in one year than any other sporting good has produced in the last decade. Hence my interest and resulting research in the viability of creating an event large enough to generate both public and corporate interest,

c) Given what I have seen and heard, I would need some kind of guarantee that a similar fiasco does not occur in my event,

d) I do agree one is not indicative of the whole. This "hiccup" has me doubting the maturity of the pro-gamer base. If the cream of the crop that is SlayerS can act this way, what of the rest?

e) You have successfully argued your point, I will watch for now.

PikaXchU

Singapore379 Posts

November 17 2011 09:12 GMT

#214

I think u guys missed the point. The point is that this kind of behavior should never happen if sc2 were to become a recognized sport. Whether coca earned his code S spot through hard work or not doesn't matter. If u screw up like this, it's punishment altogether. He can still get it back, like a restart though. Count him lucky as he didn't get kicked out of slayers.

Slangen

Sweden1166 Posts

November 17 2011 09:16 GMT

#215

They simply saw that they had to make an example of this behavior. For the wellfare of Esports. Kind of sad for CoCa though.. He had a good chance in GSL this season.

Filter

Canada620 Posts

November 17 2011 09:16 GMT

#216

I think it comes down to something simple, Boxer expects more of his players. The SlayerS team is supposed to work their asses off and show the same class Boxer does.

I think the punishments fine, playing for Slayers is an honor and the team does an exceptional job of training it's players and getting them promoted, in return the players are expected to act like pros. He didn't and he's getting punished like he didn't.

Frankon

3054 Posts

November 17 2011 09:25 GMT

#217

On November 17 2011 18:00 zhurai wrote:

Show nested quote +

Yes it was about that match. Sadly the input limit in the Poll made me clear that part.

jimbob615

Uruguay455 Posts

November 17 2011 09:33 GMT

#218

i think it's harsh on CoCa, but it is setting a really good precedent to stamp out corruption which will ultimately reward us, the viewers.

i do wish CoCa had played in his Code S games though, i think he could have progressed over GuMiho and Jjakbi

Mithriel

Netherlands2969 Posts

November 17 2011 09:44 GMT

#219

I think punishment is fine. Its completely retarded what they did ( though nothing was on the line). This sets an example.and hoefully reminds others to not make mistake.

Ps. Wonder how.often things like this happens and Noone finds out ( easy to sort through pm's)

Liveon

Netherlands1083 Posts

November 17 2011 09:51 GMT

#220

why not just giving him a warning? He knows what he did was stupid even without getting
a. kicked out of the teamhouse
b. getting robbed from his code S spot
c. getting banned from the competition he threw the game in.

Especially the banning from the teamhouse, wtf is wrong with those people. He's a great player with a great attitude, he just wanted to do something nice for his friend. It's not like he tried to cheat people out of money or something -.-' .

Fuck everything about this.

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