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Capped
United Kingdom7236 Posts
Basically, i would leave ESV to do what they want about him, it was their tourney that him and the other dude fucked up. Ban for life if they want too. In regards to the GSL, i think he should have lost his Code S and been forced to withdraw yeah. Banned untill 2012 and then allowed to requalify through code B. ( No fast tracks. ) I feel in this case, that would be a suitable punishment  | ||
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SeaSwift
Scotland4486 Posts
On November 17 2011 20:29 Capped wrote: But it was still a highly respected tournament with a code A slot up for grabs (eventually). God, mods should put a sign above the OP with this detail in it: There was no Code A slot up for grabs eventually. Mr Chae was still in negotiations with the ESV, and no Code A slot had been decided upon. Thus, claiming it was evil and Coca deserves flagellation for giving his team-mate a free Code A spot is ignorant as fuck. Sure, there was a possibility at some point of the ESV Monthly ending up giving out a Code A spot. This was the opening series in the ESV WEEKLY. That's the equivalent of Idra's resignation in several small EU tournaments, and yet there was no knee-jerk reaction from the internet about that, because it didn't fucking matter. That he was doing it for a team-mate should be irrelevant to the rules. | ||
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EsMors
53 Posts
ESV should of course be allowed to ban him for as long as they want. The same goes for Slayers, I assume the players in the team were all aware that the team doesn't want them to do things like this, yet CoCa did anyway, and gets his due punishment. | ||
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Hantak
Chile59 Posts
I think that sure, what they did goes against everything a "pro" is meant to do on his area, but they are getting the sharp side of the edge just to make a point, "any kind of forfeit or matchmaking is not allowed and will NOT be accepted by any means". I can understand the reasons why they got punished like they where, but still seems a bit excessive to me. I still hold great respect to SlayerS team, but they shold at least let Coca train on the team house... either try to work with him or cut him lose. Heres a link to another thread on the topic + Show Spoiler + | ||
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SeaSwift
Scotland4486 Posts
On November 17 2011 20:43 EsMors wrote: ESV should of course be allowed to ban him for as long as they want. The same goes for Slayers, I assume the players in the team were all aware that the team doesn't want them to do things like this, yet CoCa did anyway, and gets his due punishment. It's fairly obvious that SlayerS are doing what they are to save face for sc2 in Korea. References to the sAviOr incident have been made, and SlayerS want to appear to be "tough on crime", so acted in response. I have no doubt that, were the public not bothered at all by this, Coca would have had no severe repercussions at all. And this is why it is a tragedy - uninformed people making uninformed comments and having uninformed opinions lead to a minor mistake being made huge and yet the Korean culture and the history of "match-fixing" (although I hesitate to call it that) make it near impossible for Coca to have the punishment reduced. The whole situation has been blown way out of proportion, and Coca is the one to suffer for it. | ||
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Capped
United Kingdom7236 Posts
On November 17 2011 20:35 SeaSwift wrote: God, mods should put a sign above the OP with this detail in it: There was no Code A slot up for grabs eventually. Mr Chae was still in negotiations with the ESV, and no Code A slot had been decided upon. Thus, claiming it was evil and Coca deserves flagellation for giving his team-mate a free Code A spot is ignorant as fuck. Sure, there was a possibility at some point of the ESV Monthly ending up giving out a Code A spot. This was the opening series in the ESV WEEKLY. That's the equivalent of Idra's resignation in several small EU tournaments, and yet there was no knee-jerk reaction from the internet about that, because it didn't fucking matter. That he was doing it for a team-mate should be irrelevant to the rules. Well, my post wasnt really about the fact of it having a code A slot, it was just one of the outcomes of their actions, fine i was wrong. I dont think im "ignorant as fuck" thanks, ive heard from every source i could find (Here, reddit, mentioned on ESV weekly themselves, by artosis.) so i thought it was pretty safe to say that? fuck me -_-. And giving a team mate a free win while playing him (If you get to the bracket with him then resign, or do it the dumbass way they did and discuss and do it in game.) is completely different to just resigning in a tournament ? I dont see how you could get that conclusion, that leaving a tournament for no reason and giving <random person> a bye is the same as leaving a game then losing on purpose to give your team mate the win. (take out the team mate and put <random person> in and it still isnt right.) Im not the person who is "Ignorant as fuck" here imo, but i still wont sit here and call you it -_- | ||
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zul
Germany5427 Posts
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
(not talking about Idra and DeMuslim, since somebody told me that they asked the admin about it beforehand) | ||
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figq
12519 Posts
On November 17 2011 21:07 Capped wrote: That's not what happened. All the 3 games were played at their max. But Coca won game 2 and in the end conceded it in favor of his Terran opponent, in order to get a 3rd game for his ZvT practice, for his all-Terran group in the GSL, because all his Terran teammates were busy with another event. He says all that in chat.the same as leaving a game then losing on purpose to give your team mate the win. | ||
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Tektos
Australia1321 Posts
In my opinion, they should have a temporary suspension from the ESV but removing Coca's Code S spot and removing him from the A team is VERY VERY harsh. Match fixing is not okay, what they did was obviously wrong but the situation has exploded to much larger proportions than it ever should have. | ||
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SeaSwift
Scotland4486 Posts
On November 17 2011 21:07 Capped wrote: Well, my post wasnt really about the fact of it having a code A slot, it was just one of the outcomes of their actions, fine i was wrong. I dont think im "ignorant as fuck" thanks, ive heard from every source i could find (Here, reddit, mentioned on ESV weekly themselves, by artosis.) so i thought it was pretty safe to say that? fuck me -_-. It wasn't aimed specifically at you. It was aimed at all the uninformed people who discussed it. Why discuss it without looking up a first-hand source (preferably Diamond or an interview with Mr Chae) to verify the facts first? And listing reddit, a forum thread and Artosis of all people as sources isn't a bright idea. On November 17 2011 21:07 Capped wrote: And giving a team mate a free win while playing him (If you get to the bracket with him then resign, or do it the dumbass way they did and discuss and do it in game.) is completely different to just resigning in a tournament ? I dont see how you could get that conclusion The short answer is that I didn't get to that conclusion, and in your haste to assert you position as not-ignorant-as-fuck you seemed to missed that. I said it WAS equivalent to resigning in a tournament. On November 17 2011 21:07 Capped wrote: Im not the person who is "Ignorant as fuck" here imo, but i still wont sit here and call you it -_- I think you just did, while also looking for a socially acceptable way to go about it. If you think I'm ignorant, call me ignorant, but don't make a vague attempt at civility while also insulting me. | ||
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Chanted
Norway1001 Posts
Sucks for Cocoa though, but he will bounce back im sure | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On November 17 2011 21:35 Chanted wrote: I feel that this kind of tournement behaviour should not go unpunished. If they dont strike down on this harsly, more people will be inclined to do similar acts. Sucks for Cocoa though, but he will bounce back im sure If he doesn't will we just keep saying "Have to make a scapegoat so others won't do but it sucks for Coca". | ||
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TiTanIum_
Brazil1335 Posts
On November 17 2011 21:18 figq wrote: That's not what happened. All the 3 games were played at their max. But Coca won game 2 and in the end conceded it in favor of his Terran opponent, in order to get a 3rd game for his ZvT practice, for his all-Terran group in the GSL, because all his Terran teammates were busy with another event. He says all that in chat. So he couldn´t have played again, against the same opponent? Makes no difference, though, and will only send the message: "Don´t get caught" instead of: "Don´t do this ever again". | ||
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Elean
689 Posts
Partial and false information (there was a gain). No reference to the other threads about the exact same topic. I hope mod either edit the op or close this thread. | ||
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ToTcH
Switzerland27 Posts
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figq
12519 Posts
On November 17 2011 21:47 TiTanIum_ wrote: If they had any intention to mislead, cover, or cheat - they would not have sent any replays anyway, which would have resulted in exactly the same outcome for Byun. Not sure what you mean.So he couldn´t have played again, against the same opponent? Makes no difference, though, and will only send the message: "Don´t get caught" instead of: "Don´t do this ever again". | ||
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neo_sporin
United States516 Posts
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Ganseng
Russian Federation473 Posts
but i don't feel qualified to judge the severity of the deed and of the punishment. edit yeahaaa! i'm marine now!  )) | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On November 17 2011 21:57 Ganseng wrote: I think the op misinterprets the accident. in fact, coca helped his teammate get a spot in code a by losing that game and maybe the next one, so there is a clear gain for him in dropping that game. but i don't feel qualified to judge the severity of the deed and of the punishment. Firstly Byun isn't his teammate. Secondly there was no code A spot up for grabs. So clearly there is no gain for dropping that game. You are the one that misinterprets the situation. | ||
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