EPTCocA Incident Handled Correctly? - Page 16
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marttorn
Norway5211 Posts
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bonifaceviii
Canada2890 Posts
No comment on the severity of their action, but you don't CHAT TO DISCUSS ABOUT THROWING A GAME TO YOUR PARTNER WHILE IT'S BEING TELEVISED. I think Coca needs to grow up a little before competing in competitive Starcraft again. | ||
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Treva
United States535 Posts
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Glioburd
France1911 Posts
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FlamingTurd
United States1059 Posts
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bonifaceviii
Canada2890 Posts
Hell, I'd be okay if there was a clause somewhere in a programer contract that says WHEREAS the undersigned does not go full fucking retard while representing Slayers in front of an audience; | ||
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[17]Purple
United Kingdom3489 Posts
On November 18 2011 02:37 Glioburd wrote: He didn't cheated, just helped a friend. He doesn't deserve punishment. He didn't cheat that is true, but he did give a win to his friend which in itself is wrong in competitive game such, no especially as Starcraft. Whether he deserves his punishment depends on your personal morals and views of the situation and I would say that he completely deserved it, I was more surprised that it wasn't more severe in fact. Despite that CoCa is still a great player and this was a huge mistake, but mistakes should never be overlooked and avoiding punishment would mean that they would "potentially" do it again. | ||
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Kamikiri
United States1319 Posts
That being said, I am not from the Korean culture so I don't know their views on things like this so whatever. | ||
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mooshoo
United States37 Posts
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Jakkerr
Netherlands2549 Posts
On November 18 2011 02:48 [17]Purple wrote: He didn't cheat that is true, but he did give a win to his friend which in itself is wrong in competitive game such, no especially as Starcraft. Whether he deserves his punishment depends on your personal morals and views of the situation and I would say that he completely deserved it, I was more surprised that it wasn't more severe in fact. Despite that CoCa is still a great player and this was a huge mistake, but mistakes should never be overlooked and avoiding punishment would mean that they would "potentially" do it again. You do know that most progamers have fixed matches like this but they just weren't caught right? When there's isnt anything to win for you except for a few dollars and the other guy can earn quite a lot it sounds normal to me to just let the other guy win if he's a friend. I would do the same thing as Coca did for sure. | ||
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MuK_x
743 Posts
I feeling bad for CoCa. | ||
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ArcticFox
United States1092 Posts
Fact of the matter is, he threw games to let his friend win. It's cheating, it's wrong, and it undermines the entire competitive spirit of the game. The punishment seems to fit to me, and he's lucky his entire career isn't ruined because of this. On the flip side, if he had just soft-played and kept his mouth shut, nothing at all would have happened to him and we wouldn't even be talking about this right now. I'm going to use a very American example, so apologies in advance to the non-Americans -- in Football, when it gets down to playoff time, there's usually a game between a team that's already in the playoffs with their seed locked no matter what, and a team that desperately needs the win to get into the playoffs. Usually, the team that's already in the playoffs will rest their starters in the 2nd half, or even after the first quarter, to preserve them for the games that matter. You'll have the occasional pundit say something about how the team was just sort of "let into" the playoffs, but most people don't care about it. But if the other team just came right out and said "oh yea, we let them win because we like them better than xxx team", like some dumbass 2nd-stringer on the team does every once in a while, it brings up a huge shitstorm about the competitiveness of the teams, and they start imposing all of the rules and penalties they have in place for it. Long story short -- yes, it happens, it probably happens a LOT more than we realize because people are smart enough to keep their mouths closed about it. Let the punishment stand, and hopefully it will keep it from happening so much in the future. We have to take the integrity of the game seriously if we truly want Starcraft 2 taken seriously as a sport, e- or otherwise. | ||
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Deezl
United States355 Posts
When Boxer plays his kids, Boxer goes all out, just saying. No free rides in eSports | ||
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adun12345
United States198 Posts
On November 18 2011 02:51 Jakkerr wrote: You do know that most progamers have fixed matches like this but they just weren't caught right? When there's isnt anything to win for you except for a few dollars and the other guy can earn quite a lot it sounds normal to me to just let the other guy win if he's a friend. I would do the same thing as Coca did for sure. To your second point - Coca isn't just a guy playing with his friend. Playing Starcraft 2 is Coca's job. He has a responsibility to his fans, to his team, and to his tournament to act in a professional manner as befits his choice of profession. Part of that responsibility is to play the best he possibly can, and not throw games where he is clearly in the lead. If Coca violates that responsibility - even if he violates that responsibility to help a friend - he needs to take his knocks. In this particular case, the benefit for Byun was sufficiently small that I think Coca's behavior speaks more to a significant lack of professionalism on his (and, to be fair, Byun's) part, rather than some deep-felt desire to help a friend in need. To your first point - I question the validity of your claim that "most" progamers have fixed matches like this (if you have data to support such a conclusion, I would very much like to see it). That said, any progamer who throws a match during a tournament deserves to be penalized for his or her unprofessional behavior. If E-Sports is going to continue to grow, it can't just be an "Old Boys' Club" - it needs standards of professional behavior for its participants that are enforced. | ||
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sunman1g
United States334 Posts
absolutely ridiculous if you ask me | ||
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adun12345
United States198 Posts
On November 18 2011 03:36 sunman1g wrote: i absolutely do not agree with the punishment nor the reaction. absolutely ridiculous if you ask me Do you disagree with the idea that progamers need to be professional in their behavior, especially when engaged in a tournament? If not, do you believe that Coca's decision to leave a game he had won simply because the other player asked him was professional? | ||
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VeNoM HaZ Skill
United States1528 Posts
But as it stands I feel the punishment is too widespread for the crime. The ban from the weeklies is very reasonable and the most sensible. As for dropping out from Code S (still not sure if this was voluntary or not), I feel conflicted on that: While the ESV KRW is it's own tournament, one of the biggest assets it presents is a Code A spot (connecting ESV<-->GOM). Even though the recent format changes have made the spot less valuable, it still is one of the larger rewards. However, since Coca is Code S and has no use for this spot (much like Taeja), it can be reasoned that the tournament ban is not enough. While I do not feel that it's the most fitting punishment, (even Chae seems to agree that the punishment shouldn't step outside of the tournament in which the offense was made); it's not as bad as it seems considering the new format. Losing Code S is much like not being seeded into a MSL/OSL, you have to play through the prelims, in order to get dumped into the main tournament; to a player of Coca's skill, this wouldn't be considered a horrible setback. *Note: yes I am indeed implying that the drop from Code S may have been pressured (by Slayers, not GOM). However, the entire team house deal seems to be far too much. If the choice is made for the player to be removed from Code S, then fine. But, to remove said player from his practice environment? Are you really trying to sabotage his ability to legitimately re-qualify? It is absolutely way too much on the part of any team, especially if Slayers plans on retaining Coca. This entire debacle was spurred by Coca's lack of players to practice with, which is the team's (Slayers) duty to provide for it's players. So their best idea is to put him in the exact same position? Some intelligent person said "Boxer's job right now should be acting as an older brother: guiding Coca, helping him to learn from his mistakes, and also help to fix them." Instead he basically gets Harry Pottered, locked under the stairs, out of sight out of mind. I've lost a little bit of respect for Slayers as a team. | ||
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turkit
Ireland67 Posts
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Fusilero
United Kingdom50293 Posts
On November 18 2011 01:02 purecarnagge wrote: Why wasn't Byun disciplined at all? The cussing, the begging for a win? Prime banned Byun from participating from any tournaments until further notice. | ||
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zeehar
Korea (South)3804 Posts
On November 18 2011 03:46 VeNoM HaZ Skill wrote: However, the entire team house deal seems to be far too much. If the choice is made for the player to be removed from Code S, then fine. But, to remove said player from his practice environment? Are you really trying to sabotage his ability to legitimately re-qualify? It is absolutely way too much on the part of any team, especially if Slayers plans on retaining Coca. This entire debacle was spurred by Coca's lack of players to practice with, which is the team's (Slayers) duty to provide for it's players. So their best idea is to put him in the exact same position? Some intelligent person said "Boxer's job right now should be acting as an older brother: guiding Coca, helping him to learn from his mistakes, and also help to fix them." Instead he basically gets Harry Pottered, locked under the stairs, out of sight out of mind. I've lost a little bit of respect for Slayers as a team. the removal from the house is not permanent. otherwise they would have just released him from the team. i don't get the sense that the people crying about how kicking him out from the house is extreme have followed BW and their teams, so i shall elaborate. players who went on large slumps were sometimes sent home from the practice house to get their shit together. it's not unprecedented. hell, even  Bisu was sent home to recover physically and mentally during one of his slumps early in his SKT1 career.if you are willing to send a player home for a while because they're playing badly, what makes you think they won't be doing that when a player has done something as shortsightedly retarded and damaging to the team as a whole, like what coca did? | ||
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