EPTThen we can replace the Overseer with the Viper, which is multiple times better, and still get the sneaky scouting info with Speed OL's and changelings.
The Overseer and Zerg Scouting - Page 3
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Ridiculisk
Australia191 Posts
Then we can replace the Overseer with the Viper, which is multiple times better, and still get the sneaky scouting info with Speed OL's and changelings. | ||
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Conquerer67
United States605 Posts
On November 10 2011 10:04 Ridiculisk wrote: I would like to see perhaps the changeling kept, but moved to the Overlord at Lair tech. Then we can replace the Overseer with the Viper, which is multiple times better, and still get the sneaky scouting info with Speed OL's and changelings. Actually a good idea, imo. So it would be like creep spread is, except it would spawn a changeling. | ||
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
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Insomni7
667 Posts
Overlords are a seriously underrated tool by mid level players. Speed overlords can basically give you entire map vision and slow down your opponent from taking expansions, etc. Utilizing overlords will make you feel like you have a lot more control over what's going on in the game, rather than "wtf, he has 5 bases?" I absolutely agree, speed overlords are just as good as overseers and with the added bonus of dropping creep. I'm not so sure about map control outside of zvz. I find that lings provide less risky map control. I don't want to get supply blocked when protoss moves out cause his blink stalkers are faster than my speed overlords. | ||
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PR4Y
United States260 Posts
if so, your best alternative is to just skip the overseer and get speed. trade off the cost of two overseers for being able to use ovvy scouts ALL GAME (not to mention the ovvy spread / creep highway / expo blocking potential)... speed is a very good mid-lategame upgrade, and even entering into the beginning of midgame when you just hit lair tech, getting ovvy speed right away isn't exactly make-or-break (unless you have already scouted a timing attack / allin - which would make speed pointless) | ||
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TBone-
United States2309 Posts
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DeltaX
United States287 Posts
Speed on hatch tech would open the option of scouting early if you wanted to invest the extra resources into it. You still have the option to hope you can see what you need if you don't want to spend it. Removing the spells from the overseer is just admitting that it will not be a very interesting unit, but then you could just consider it an upgraded overlord. I find this unlikely, but it should be an option if nothing else works out. I also really like the idea that was mentioned to allow the viper to cast the detection spell on enemy units for sight. It would need a decent range, but would allow zerg to scout pretty well if the opponent didn't want to kill the unit. | ||
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Nourek
Germany188 Posts
I'm not too worried atm, especially at my own level, but I don't really understand why removing the overseer is planned. | ||
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FirstGear
Australia185 Posts
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Iksf
United Kingdom444 Posts
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RavenLoud
Canada1100 Posts
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Ganseng
Russian Federation473 Posts
i don't see why viper should overtake his role. | ||
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PresenceSc2
Australia4032 Posts
On November 10 2011 08:23 envisioN . wrote: A scan from the Orbital is one less MULE which translates to about 270 minerals. Hallucination costs 100/100 (the same as overlord speed hmmmm). Get overlord speed. Its useful. A viking can chase down a overlord with speed T_T . imo they need to increase the upgraded speed or the base speed. | ||
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HystericaLaughter
Australia720 Posts
On November 10 2011 11:58 FirstGear wrote: Opening 14 gas, 14 pool into expo, the fastest you can get lair is 6.45 and the fastest overlord speed is completed is 7.45. Conversely a dt rush can get dts out at about 6.45. So invisible units are out a full minute before reliable scouting is available. This change opens up a whole range of 1 base all ins that aren't reliably scoutable anymore. I don't know how it will change things, but even if GM stayed the same it has the potential to change other leagues significantly. That is such a poorly thought out post. How is this timing any different to what it was previously? 1 base dt will be no more difficult to scout without the overseer, because you scout 1 base dt with slow overlords, not overseers. Another point, although irrelevant, is that you can tell a dt/void ray rush by the sentry count of the Protoss player, you often don't need to actually see the tech structure. | ||
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GloryOfAiur
United States127 Posts
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ALPINA
3791 Posts
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SoKHo
Korea (South)1081 Posts
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Tippecanoe
United States342 Posts
Why and where is the issue of scouting? | ||
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NeonFox
2373 Posts
On November 10 2011 16:54 Tippecanoe wrote: Vipers move at 3.75 speed and you can make them the same time you can make an overseer AND they are useful because they are real spell casters. Why and where is the issue of scouting? They cost 200 gas, you need 2 if you want to have a viper with detection, and you can't sacrifice a 200 gas unit to scout like you do with an overseer. People are not saying the viper is bad, it's all about timing. It delays scouting of the opponents base and increases the cost, and it delays mobile detection by a lot. I don't see them keeping it like this. | ||
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
On November 10 2011 07:13 Emporio wrote: Maybe you should wait for the game to come out before worrying about how you're going to scout. uncalled for. he is asking a very legit question. and I do agree that not having the overseer (which i now love due to the low gas cost) is going to suck. I mean i fking love the viper (used it in HOTS custom) but i dont really give a shit about it's detect ability. it doesnt work well as a detector. imo, they should keep both the overseer and the viper. On November 10 2011 16:54 Tippecanoe wrote: Vipers move at 3.75 speed and you can make them the same time you can make an overseer AND they are useful because they are real spell casters. Why and where is the issue of scouting? lolwut? its like people dont even read the unit details. you really think paying 200 gas for a scout is okay? | ||
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