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Well, after a few months of reading on here I figured it is about time to post:D I searched for this topic and couldn't find anything.
Allow me to begin with a scenario. I am playing Zerg on the bottom position of Xel'Naga Caverns and there is a Protoss on the top postion. I scouted that he is gathing a lot of Stalkers and Zealots so I am outside of his base with Zerglings and Banelings, keeping him in as he tried to expand. I then use the Overlord I had to the right of his base to convert into an Overseer. I then poke in to see that he is teching to Colossus. He shoots at my Overseer but I am easily able to slide out of his base without taking much damage, after Contaminating his Robotics Facility and Robotics bay to delay Colossi and dely Thermal Lance as I throw down a spire. I then poke back in the front of his base and drop a changeling. And get a good count on the Colossi.
Basicly my question is, how will Zerg scout effectivly in Heart of The Swarm without the overseer? Giving up a viper for a detector? Which will be hard to seperate from the rest of your army. I mean Terran can scan and Protoss has observers, we lost our scouting unit. How can we scout like the other races can? I supose we can run lings in or swarm host locousts. But not like Terran and Protoss can just walk in.
I am not asking for someone to magically save the Overseer I just need sugestions on how to scout after it is gone.
Any feedback or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I just don't want to lose the Overseer and if we do I don't know how I will scout efficiantly. Thanks!
-iDONTrush
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Maybe you should wait for the game to come out before worrying about how you're going to scout.
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I use the overseer extensively every game. I'm going to miss it. Especially changelings..... Late game PvZ when you need overseers at every base for DTs, you can spam changelings as part of your macro and scout the entire map, for FREE, with ZERO SUPPLY ZERO COST units... Not to mention the cute things you can do with them (expo block, ramp block, follow an army)
I think overlord speed will be the new thing, and vipers will make them detectors when you need it. I've been trying to just get overlord speed more often (as well as burrow) because they are so cheap and worth so much. I personally hope the Viper's parasite ability works on enemy units too, that would be awesome.
On November 10 2011 07:13 Emporio wrote:
Maybe you should wait for the game to come out before worrying about how you're going to scout.
thats not nice. He's asking how to scout now, in WoL, without overseers, to be ready for the expansion.
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Their Parasite? Abduct? It does. I love the Overseer but usually for early DT's before there is a lot of them (before you scout them) I just use a Spore and Spine crawler pair. I could use overlords but they just arent as tough!
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Well, you should consider that Zerg has an easy time taking map control. Creep spread, fast units, and Overlords everywhere should give you a pretty good idea of what's going on, even if you can't always get in their base.
As for direct scouting, Ovie speed is probably gonna be your best bet. A one-time investment of 100/100 isn't too much to ask, I think.
If you're going Mutas, you're gonna be in their base anyway so there's that.
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That is true I suppose. And with the new Corrupters (if they are effective) I will be in their base some as well.
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Plus Reapers will be nice for quick scouting.
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This is something I thought about as well.
I like the viper/detector idea. That is a cool feature that will have some unique uses being able to make a variety of units detectors. But I'm thinking the same thing. Right now, I've gotten in the habit of having an OL parked somewhere near their base that I turn into an overseer the minute I get my lair and drop in a changeling or fly it through their base. It is already hard enough to scout as zerg, but I was finding that the timing of doing that with the cheaper overseer cost was great. And if they didn't kill the overseer I just drop changlings into their base every min or so and see what is going on.
Now I'm sorta scratching my head. Is it assumed that OL speed just has to be a must now? I think a lot of zerg players have all agreed scouting can be tough at times and HoTS has done nothing that helps with that.
I'm hoping the overseer stays in the game, and perhaps just gets some new features once they realize that most players at this point are finding it valuable and needed.
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maybe its hard at first but when overlord speed is upgraded, it is the best unit for map awareness imo as they're abundant to be spread out.
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I used is a lot. I am not sure why they would take it out. I feel like the game, as far as scouting goes, will be too imbalanced once the Overseer is gone. It was nice to take a peak now and again but a few stimmed marines just destroy an Overlord....quickly....
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I've been thinking the same thing! On one hand it seems like they are convinced to remove the Overseer and make it much more difficult for Zerg to get detection in order to buff DTs, which cannot do much once scouted. On the other hand, it removes Zergs race specific scouting unit - undoubtedly this will have to change.
I wouldn't worry because it is very apparent that there will need to be some change before HotS release. Things are going to change a lot in the beta. Some thoughts I have had is that maybe:
1. Overlord speed upgrade will be Hatchery tech.
2. Another unit gets the ability to cast Changelings (possibly Overlords, although making all Overlords have energy could have unintended side effects).
3. Vipers are fast (not as fast as Mutas obviously :D)
4. Viper detection ability is usable on enemy units (maybe an energy decrease on the ability as well to allow for scouting more). This brings it's own problems as well - it would practically require every Zerg player to make Vipers, and in ZvP a Protoss player can destroy a Zergs offensive/defensive capabilities by using Feedback.
Those are just some random thoughts I had, would be interesting to see what other people think!
TL;DR - Don't worry, things will change in beta if it's not balanced.
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On November 10 2011 07:25 iDONTrush wrote:
I used is a lot. I am not sure why they would take it out. I feel like the game, as far as scouting goes, will be too imbalanced once the Overseer is gone. It was nice to take a peak now and again but a few stimmed marines just destroy an Overlord....quickly....
any race can prevent scouting.
its designed so that if a player wanted to prevent scouting at all cost, its possible (except against scan).
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On November 10 2011 07:25 iDONTrush wrote:
I used is a lot. I am not sure why they would take it out. I feel like the game, as far as scouting goes, will be too imbalanced once the Overseer is gone. It was nice to take a peak now and again but a few stimmed marines just destroy an Overlord....quickly....
Overlords have just as much health as Overseers do, so Marines can kill Overseers just as quickly. What's your point? I find it hard to believe that Overlords with speed are not a viable scouting option.
Also, what league are you?
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I agree ruhrohaggy. A lot has to change in beta. In fact, have you heard any news of the beta?
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On November 10 2011 07:18 iDONTrush wrote:
Their Parasite? Abduct? It does. I love the Overseer but usually for early DT's before there is a lot of them (before you scout them) I just use a Spore and Spine crawler pair. I could use overlords but they just arent as tough!
Abduct is the grapple.
Ocular parasite is the thing that makes something a detector.
I think overlord speed is the best bet. Those guys are fast, send 2 or 3 if youre really needing to know. 300 minerals + upgrade cost when you're on 2-3bases trying to decide what to do is not too much to ask. It also lets you get to drops which are pretty critical imo.. Late game when you have too many roaches/lings and need supply for more big units, its nice to already have scouted their base with overlords and know where you can suicide those units effectively.
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On November 10 2011 07:32 wongfeihung wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 07:25 iDONTrush wrote:
I used is a lot. I am not sure why they would take it out. I feel like the game, as far as scouting goes, will be too imbalanced once the Overseer is gone. It was nice to take a peak now and again but a few stimmed marines just destroy an Overlord....quickly.... Overlords have just as much health as Overseers do, so Marines can kill Overseers just as quickly. What's your point? I find it hard to believe that Overlords with speed are not a viable scouting option. Also, what league are you?
Overseers are inherently faster and are armored.
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Maybe I am missing something, but why would you want to make an enemy unit a detector? Does it drain it's energy or something.
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err afaik speed overlords work pretty good, put 4 banelings in it and you wipe out protoss economy too!
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On November 10 2011 07:37 iDONTrush wrote:
Maybe I am missing something, but why would you want to make an enemy unit a detector? Does it drain it's energy or something.
if it granted vision of that unit and made it a detector for you, like queens could do in brood war.
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EPT
