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On November 01 2011 01:06 Origine wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2011 00:50 DarKFoRcE wrote:
I have been thinking of creating such a thread for months, im happy that you made the step. i have a word file on my computer with all cups that i still get prizemoney from, i will copy it here. please note that some of those tourneys are very recently, so its not a big deal that i havent gotten the money yet, but some are almost, or even more than 1 year ago (for example i havent gotten the 3000 SEK from the dreamhack BYOC qualifier that all the first place finishers of the qualifiers were supposed to get).
I hope you can forgive me the slighty unorganized format of my list, but i think it should be clear what is meant in each case. it IS possible that one of those tourneys did pay me, and i forgot to take the tournament off the list, but its not very likely... but yea just wanted to put this here as a warning that i cannot guarantee that the list is 100% perfect (but pretty close to 100).
Dailymotion Cup
EPS Season 17
EPS Summer 2011
Dreamhack Winter 2010 BYOC Qualifier (3000 SEK)
Epiccup invite turnier
Virus invite turnier
IPL Season 2
WCG National Finals
GeForce Pro Turnier
TheGreat Showmatch
Zotac Monthly Final September
16.10.2011 Polarfluke OPtoberfest ~~340$
19.10.2011 ESL Monthly Final September
One thing i am very happy about is that i have recently gotten my NASL Season 1 prizemoney, even though it was a bit later than promised, it still came relatively quickly, compared to many other events!
Another thing that annoys me is that you usually have to ASK via email for the prizemoney, only in rare cases are you actually being contacted by the tournament organizers about the prizemoney...
In some cases i had to write many many emails, which costs alot of time and energy and is really making me quite angry at times. Sry but you can delete Virus invite tournament, since Virus is about to disband due to.... not paying promised salaries and shit, aka having 0$ to run the team (being part of Virus i know what i'm talking about >,>) this is another concern, but it sux as well. You wont receive the money any time soon unfortunately t__t To add something that DrooL said about ESL taking their time to pay, EPS.fr season 1 ended like 1 year ago or so, no cash prizes have been paid to the players from the play-offs (season 2 as well obviously  )
oh i dont really expect that i will ever that the money from that tourney, but i still have it on my list just so the list is complete
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On November 01 2011 01:10 HolydaKing wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2011 01:08 Zandar wrote:
Another thing that can be done is for the community to twitter the sponsor of those tournaments with "Why don't you pay prizemoney?"
Like the 1000s who twittered "Thanks Pepsi for sponsoring GSL"
Sponsors really can't have bad publicity in large numbers like that and might react by changing their payment behaviour?
That can't be done because we actually don't know which sponsors promised to pay prizemoney and which did and if they did or if they did not.
If organisers are familiar with their sponsors and know it will take them 5 months to pay - Mention it. Clarify it for all players involved. If you win anything, a tournament official should approach you with the story behind the late-payments. Or better yet, just mention it in their tournament threads as additional information, example: All players will receive their money in 3-4 months from now. They will be contacted by a tournament official after all results are finalized.
This will create some more goodwill, and players know when they can expect their winnings.
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On November 01 2011 01:08 Resilient wrote:
This thread is only 2 pages long and the amount of well respected pro-gamers coming forth to support ClouD is surprising. I was not aware EU tournaments in particular, were so terrible at cashing their advertised prizes.
NA progamers are still enjoying their mornings. But I almost sure that when they come to TL and check this thread, they'll have some similar stories to share about NA tournaments.
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It's been this way for ages, and it's pretty depressing. Some friends and I have waited for over a year for prize money from i-series LANs. Something needs to change for this e-sports bubble to be taken seriously.
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You should mail the tourney sponsors, like Intel, geforce etc, and tell them that their sponsored tournaments doesn't pay up. They care very much about their online reputation.
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On November 01 2011 01:14 Loxley wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2011 01:10 HolydaKing wrote:On November 01 2011 01:08 Zandar wrote:
Another thing that can be done is for the community to twitter the sponsor of those tournaments with "Why don't you pay prizemoney?"
Like the 1000s who twittered "Thanks Pepsi for sponsoring GSL"
Sponsors really can't have bad publicity in large numbers like that and might react by changing their payment behaviour?
That can't be done because we actually don't know which sponsors promised to pay prizemoney and which did and if they did or if they did not. If organisers are familiar with their sponsors and know it will take them 5 months to pay - Mention it. Clarify it for all players involved. If you win anything, a tournament official should approach you with the story behind the late-payments. Or better yet, just mention it in their tournament threads as additional information, example: All players will receive their money in 3-4 months from now. They will be contacted by a tournament official after all results are finalized.This will create some more goodwill, and players know when they can expect their winnings.
Yeah, we dont know which sponsors promised to pay money...so we send a letter to all sponsors. People won't want their name attached with companies that can't pay out prize pools. Even if they weren't the ones responsible, they will want this problem fixed and will take steps to do so
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Sweden164 Posts
The only time such things ever happened to me was with ESL. Every other organization has paid reasonably fast.
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After having won smaller sums of money from ESL's EMS TF2 tournaments, I feel for you. Even though the money usually ended up in our managers bank account around 12 months or longer after the finals, it's a shitty thing to do. This behaviour would never be accepted in most other industries. If an organization has money to pay out, they need to take a loan and make it THEIR problem. Tournament competitors are (in my very personal and farfetched opinion) a form of the organizers brands. "Oh, player X won $Y in tournament Z. Z is awesome for making my favourite player able to entertain me!". I know this isn't the correct definition, but I sometimes think of it in this way.
The only positive experience I've ever had with prize money is from the Assembly lan in Finland. They actually payed us our prize money INSTANTLY. Organizers could learn a thing or two from them, for sure.
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On November 01 2011 01:06 Willes wrote:
Make it public, for example: all tournaments where the prizewinners need to mail/harass the admins for the money are put on a list which will be continiously updated here on tl.net.
Everybody can read the list.
Everybody can decide to not play on tournaments that are well known for not paying.
They will think twice about it if they know that it has consequences.
I agree let the community show the sponsors that don't pay or force players to ask over and over for months that we do not appreciate that kind of support of e-sports, they are doing it to garner favor with the community after all.
The prize money should be available from the moment the player wins, or else don't run the tournament.
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I once won a $4,500 tourney sponsored by Dell, I was told I would contacted within 2 days, 2 weeks later I was never contacted. I called their customer support and complained to higher ups in the gaming division, who said they had generally had no idea about said tournament but ended up honoring it. Lucky that the sponsor was a major company, I guess. They knew Dell had legitimately sponsored it, that is, they just couldn't figure out who the hell was supposed to handle it, so they did it themselves, which was awesome.
They had to go through and read all the terms and conditions and shit though before going through with it. That took forever...
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This will only make MLG more popular. lol
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This sucks so much  I cant think of a solution. Since there is still so much money in the open, you cant just stop all the tourneys since then they wouldnt pay for sure. An organisation for "paysafe" regarding tournaments would be needed. Since you have to register tournaments at blizzard anyway, the prizemoney should be proven to exist before everything starts and so on...
Fell bad for all the pros missing their money
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United Kingdom14464 Posts
So in general, ESL are the worst? Carmac seems so public and easy to contact, I thought it would be easy to get communication with higher ups.
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On November 01 2011 01:17 Thorzain wrote:
The only time such things ever happened to me was with ESL. Every other organization has paid reasonably fast.
Glad people are showing up, i hope even more show up and tell their experiences.
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wow, didnt realize how widespread this is. IPL 2?? ESL??
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On November 01 2011 01:19 lazyfeet wrote:
This will only make MLG more popular. lol
If they pay in time, unlike many others, then they deserve it.
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On November 01 2011 01:17 appe wrote:
After having won smaller sums of money from ESL's EMS TF2 tournaments, I feel for you. Even though the money usually ended up in our managers bank account around 12 months or longer after the finals, it's a shitty thing to do. This behaviour would never be accepted in most other industries. If an organization has money to pay out, they need to take a loan and make it THEIR problem. Tournament competitors are (in my very personal and farfetched opinion) a form of the organizers brands. "Oh, player X won $Y in tournament Z. Z is awesome for making my favourite player able to entertain me!". I know this isn't the correct definition, but I sometimes think of it in this way.
The only positive experience I've ever had with prize money is from the Assembly lan in Finland. They actually payed us our prize money INSTANTLY. Organizers could learn a thing or two from them, for sure.
I'm with appe here. Luckily my team also had a manager to deal with all of that so we could just focus on playing.
I retired in March this year and I'm still waiting for some prizemoney/gear...... derrrppp
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This isn't a recent problem but something that haunts esports since its early days. The CPL didn't ever pay some teams the prize money for events in 2002 and 2003 and still continued to live on for quite a while.
Nonetheless, even it might seem counter-intuitive at first, blacklists and publicly calling out organizations won't help anyone. Hosting a big event requires a lot of work, and the prize money is a rather small (yet important) aspect overall. So don't expect anyone to be there to just "replace" today's organizers if they are forced to quit. Even if they're at fault, there's no point in boycotting as it'll only make everyone wait longer or not receive any money at all. So it's not really coincidence that most teams prefer to be quiet as long as the organizers play fair (which the CPL ultimately didn't, so it was boycotted and forced to quit after all).
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On November 01 2011 01:09 yoigen wrote:
this needs a spotlight
Im sure its in TL's (and ESPORTS) best interest that those things are known and talked about. On the other hand, i think spotlighting such a thread is somewhat tricky, considering TL runs partly on sponsors money. This looks like a job for Super Reddit 
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On November 01 2011 01:17 appe wrote:
After having won smaller sums of money from ESL's EMS TF2 tournaments, I feel for you. Even though the money usually ended up in our managers bank account around 12 months or longer after the finals, it's a shitty thing to do. This behaviour would never be accepted in most other industries. If an organization has money to pay out, they need to take a loan and make it THEIR problem. Tournament competitors are (in my very personal and farfetched opinion) a form of the organizers brands. "Oh, player X won $Y in tournament Z. Z is awesome for making my favourite player able to entertain me!". I know this isn't the correct definition, but I sometimes think of it in this way.
The only positive experience I've ever had with prize money is from the Assembly lan in Finland. They actually payed us our prize money INSTANTLY. Organizers could learn a thing or two from them, for sure.
I think that even if we can't simply boycott tournaments that are late to pay their players, I think it's good to have this kind of issue publicly available so that we can put some pressure on the tournaments that don't pay their prizemoney within a reasonable timeframe. The fact that players have to beg for it in itself is completly unaceptable in the first place >_<.
Is there a twitter to contact ESL concerning this problem?
edit: I tweeted carmarc about this issue, feel free to do the same ( but be respectfull) because according to his description i feel he is the one we should contact concerning ESL:
"Intel Extreme Masters - if anything breaks, you blame me. I run pro gaming for ESL." mbcarmarc
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EPT
