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On November 01 2011 01:29 Loxley wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2011 01:27 BoomNasty wrote:
Forgive me if I am wrong, but it seems like all of these problems are coming from European tournaments? Wouldn't it be smart to just not attend tournaments by sponsors/organizers you know aren't trustworthy. Everything outside of Europe does not seem to have a problem with prize money. You've seen IPL season2 in darkforce' list? That was in may, and certainly US. So far only european programers are posting here, therefore more EU tournaments are listed. I guess this problem is borderless.
thats why I said forgive me if im wrong. i wasnt sure if it was just european tournaments. ipl tournaments seems to be legitimate especially since they did the live tournament
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Same thing happened in Heroes of Newerth. If it wasn't a tourney not paying up, your ex team-mate was taking the money and running.
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Not only a sc2 problem, I had the same in cod. People saying "just boycott them", sure you can boycott some small cups, but you can't ignore the big stuff like IEM's, where this is unfortunately also an issue.
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This is just so unprofessional. TL could do a HUGE service to the players if they set up some "debt" page (or linked to one) where they out tournament and sponsors who dont pay up.
Also, I really don't think major casting personalities should attend tournaments that don't treat their participants well.
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On November 01 2011 01:30 skipgamer wrote:
Actually, I just had a thought, has anyone tried contacting Blizzard about this? They do give tournaments licenses to play SC2, perhaps some kind of system can be set up where if there is a certain % of players not receiving prize money from a tournament, they aren't provided with a tournament license until all debts to players are made.
Blizzard are in the perfect position to disallow tournaments to host their game. It could even be seen as a good marketing move (especially in recent light of their decisions) to be the first e-sport that could guarantee tournaments pay their players.
I hope someone with an ear at Blizzard at least mentions the idea.
Blizzard can't even take the time to whitelist tournament venues until the venue calls them the day of screaming that they are getting kicked off of b.net. I've seen it happen at both MLG and IPL. I really doubt they'll take the time to do this
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Hope things work out, this shit is ruining e-sports! CMON GUYS WHERE'S THE SPIRIT! PAY UPPP
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For temporary measure, I think managers of each team should handle the prize money won by their team members. I think in the perspective or the tournament organizer, having to communicate with 10 or more players for the prize would be very difficult task. It would be very good if there is a place (eg. TLPD?) where team website and manager's contact information is listed so both organizers and managers can communicate with each other for the prize money.
But yes, we need to have a governing body for this. BUT no kespa plz. =(
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That sucks man...this might be a call for a governing body to stop this kind of thing.
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This is so sad to hear!
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Wow, this is bullshit! I think its time to form foreing Kespa. It was formed in Korea because players were misteated by tournaments, wasn´t it?
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On November 01 2011 00:54 eXigent. wrote:
I personally would seek legal methods regarding the bigger sums of money. Threatening to take these companies to court in a case where you will 100% win, they will have no choice other than pay you now, or risk going to court and damaging their companies name. I feel as though they think they can push gamers around because we do not have anyone backing us legally. I would most certainly persue that route if someone owed me 2000 euros.
K so you pay for a lawyer to take them to court and you win. Now pay your lawyer and a 30% tax on the winnings. Congrats you earned 4 Euros and 23 cents.
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Blizzard should not give tournament licenses to organisers unless said organisers can provide concrete evidence that they can pay the prizes they are offering. Its that simple. There should be a code of conduct for anyone wanting to host a tournament along the lines of:
1) Evidence of prize money held in escrow ready to paid out to the participants
2) Some form of free streaming so members of the public can watch
3) Details of how this tournament is to hosted, whether offline or online, and the format
The programers are the lifeblood of the SC2 esports scene, they work incredibly hard and fly round the world and only a tiny percentage of them get a decent living out of it. Respect them please!
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I heard from quite a lot of players, that there where a lot of problems with paying out prize money too. I even helped some getting in contact with admins/sponsors esp when there are language barriers involved and tournament admins are not beeing able to proper communicate.
Still, this is not always the tournament organizers beeing super greedy. Sometimes you as an organizer make a contract with a sponsor and they simply don't pay up in time. So this leaves the organizers in a hole of shit. Becasue they are blamed by the players and the general audience (/r/pitchfork anyone? hehe) for sponsors not holding on to signed contracts. I am not saying this is always the case, I don't even know if this is the majority or the minority. But I am saying that it is not always that simple. So beeing to fast on judging people/tournaments, might not always be the best idea 
Still, this thread absolutly deserves attention, it is good that it is not that one sided.
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United States1070 Posts
Wow, that sucks. I think I remember FruitDealer complaining that for a time after he won the first GSL that he didn't receive his prizemoney yet... so I guess this kind of thing is common, sadly.
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On November 01 2011 01:29 Dingobloo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2011 00:58 RevThirteen wrote:
Is there no way to take legal action with a lawyer against these tournaments? Often times hiring a lawyer and taking them to court would cost more than the prize money itself, you'd have to do it on principal.
You can just go to a small claims court since the prize money is below $20-50k. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_claims_court
Of course, things get complicated if the defendent does not that have a base of operations in the country you're sueing.
Still; the cost is minimal, you're supposed to represent yourself and in most cases you can get a judgement in a day.
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this really sucks for you guys, hope you'll get paid.
Reminds me of the G8 or something like that on Counter-strike 1.6, SK was in mouse as well and so on, they were supossed to boycott the tournaments that don't pay on time but it totally failed. Some of the team didn't respect the boycott :s
You guys are living from tournament money as well, not like you could live really well without it... i hope this post will make things move !
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Very good thread, a central public list is indeed needed.
Was surprised to find that ESL is named so often here. You'd think that the 'shady tournaments' would be run by new kids on the block, not by well established organizers.
That twitter post by Carmac is pretty damn hypocritical. He shouldn't caution against a bubble: he should make sure that the company he works for doesn't run tournaments promising money that they don't have.
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On November 01 2011 01:26 Agnosthar wrote:
Tournaments need to start stating beforehand the timescales for paying out prizemoney. Even if it does take them a long time it allows the players to plan and budget their finances accordingly. Clear timescales means players don't have to harrass the organizations asking whether they're going to get paid and when.
I'm pretty sure it's common knowledge that you can expect to wait a lot of time. In the current state, anyone who considers prize money winnings in their own financial planning is acting foolishly.
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On November 01 2011 01:35 zeru wrote:I'm surprised that this many people dont know it is like this. But yeah it totally sucks. I remember there being talk on TL about this months ago and rakaka.se made some charts ![[image loading]](http://www.rakaka.se/images/7774-rakaka_prize_money.jpg)
Can we all agree that MLG is the best tournament there is?
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EPT
