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Prize money in Starcraft 2 - Page 8

Forum Index > SC2 General
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brainox
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany292 Posts
October 31 2011 16:42 GMT
#141
Lets see if Carmac or someone responsible for those tournaments will show their point of view ... probably not but i would like to read what for example Carmac has to say about this
Piou
Profile Joined August 2010
Belgium415 Posts
October 31 2011 16:42 GMT
#142
by the way, i thought teams were taking a cut of the cash prize, do they get the money or do they have the same problem ?

The role of a team is also to take care of the players, they should harass the admins to get your money as well...
http://www.youtube.com/PiouStarcraft - http://www.facebook.com/pioustarcraft
FreudianTrip
Profile Joined July 2011
Switzerland1983 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-31 16:44:32
October 31 2011 16:42 GMT
#143
On November 01 2011 01:37 FabledIntegral wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2011 01:33 FreudianTrip wrote:
On November 01 2011 00:54 eXigent. wrote:
I personally would seek legal methods regarding the bigger sums of money. Threatening to take these companies to court in a case where you will 100% win, they will have no choice other than pay you now, or risk going to court and damaging their companies name. I feel as though they think they can push gamers around because we do not have anyone backing us legally. I would most certainly persue that route if someone owed me 2000 euros.


K so you pay for a lawyer to take them to court and you win. Now pay your lawyer and a 30% tax on the winnings. Congrats you earned 4 Euros and 23 cents.


Well you already had to pay the 30% regardless, no?


Yes, and?

Having been on the inside while a few of the GameReplays HoN tourneys were going on, it isn't just the people running it being incompetent or greedy. Sponsors take a long ass time to pay up sometimes.
Finrod1
Profile Joined December 2010
Germany3997 Posts
October 31 2011 16:43 GMT
#144
Mad respect for cloud, darkforce, delphi, nightend, satinii, thorzain, nerchio... for voicing their opinions and not beeing to afraid!
GTR
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
51589 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-31 16:43:28
October 31 2011 16:43 GMT
#145
ESL is probably the worst organisation out of the whole lot. As far as I am aware, I am pretty sure IdrA still hasn't been paid his EPS prize money from Brood War.
Commentator
Quasimoto3000
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States471 Posts
October 31 2011 16:43 GMT
#146
I am 100% for blacklisting events that are known not to pay up to players.
Every sunday a nun lays from my gunplay
elementt
Profile Joined June 2011
Portugal36 Posts
October 31 2011 16:43 GMT
#147
get in contact with ur team, if they are any good they will go after those tournaments organizers. Worry about practicing and playing, let ur team do what they are supposed to do, to take care of you. If they don't well, maybe a new team will be better for you.

About the tournaments, its becoming a trend, tournament organizers make their prize money based on "if we get x nr of players" and that kind of crap. Real tournament already have the money ready and don't need to get X nr of participants and if they do, they should pay that players in the event, not years after the event, while they enjoy good vacations/holidays with ur money.
Currently working for ESFI. * NesTea/FruitDealer!!! + www.twitter.com/mjcfernandes
Bonkarooni
Profile Joined October 2010
United States383 Posts
October 31 2011 16:43 GMT
#148
On November 01 2011 01:40 DoomsVille wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2011 01:22 Zocat wrote:
Funny that one the same day where Cloud decides to go public with that carmac posts on his twitter "More likely than not we are witnessing "the SC2 bubble." It's not too overblown but still. Caution is advised." and "Many teams and some leagues will get horny and step out of bounds.".
Maybe he should put his own house in order first before saying that kind stuff...

Anyone that doesn't realize this is a bubble is idiotic. You have a bajillion tournaments springing up everywhere, small cups/dailies/weeklies.

The small cups realized hosting events is cheap. It costs almost nothing to host a GO4SC2. The investment is time/money. The payoff a few months ago was great. You would have thousands watching for less than $500 an investment. And so everyone started copying their model. And this was fine. Everything was working great.

But then one day the big companies realized content is cheap to produce. IPL, NASL, EGMC, and even MLG recently found out online tournaments are cheap. They do talk shows, interviews, news programs etc. etc. etc. They cost peanuts compared to large events and they pay off in spades. They broadcast on a very regular basis now and they dwarf over all the small cups/tournaments. You can have big names playing in a playhem/z33k tournament but no one will watch because they'll see some random IPL/NASL/EGMC/MLG broadcast on or some rebroadcast or some talk show.

The bubble is starting to collapse. The small events are realizing the viewers aren't there anymore. The Craftcup has already shut down. Most streamers can't get anywhere near the numbers they used to get. And hosting large events is almost as futile because every single weekend there is a major event.

TL;DR - There are too many events now. Some of them are going to collapse. It is just a matter of time.


Craftcup was always going to collapse, cause they didn't have a decent model/dedicated streamers to show their content Playhem runs daily tournaments, and their viewership is growing slowly but surely. Yeah, there are only so many people who are going to be able to watch a tournament every day, but...there's still enough to make everyone happy. Yeah, a few lesser known tournaments may die, but just because a company goes under doesn't mean "The bubble has collapsed"
DoomsVille
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada4885 Posts
October 31 2011 16:44 GMT
#149
On November 01 2011 01:37 AllHailTheDead wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2011 01:28 DoomsVille wrote:
I don't think many of you realize the consequences of actually blacklisting tournaments.

Blacklisting an event leads to it's eventual shut down. You have to remember, most of these events do eventually pay. ESL is notorious for taking forever to pay, but they do pay. An event that takes a year to pay is better than no event at all.

Honestly, there is only one solution... there needs to be a kespa-like organization formed. One that can ensure that players aren't wasting their time/energy/money going to events where they won't be paid. Events need to be able to provide proof that they have the necessary funds to pay players before anyone commits to going. There needs to be a governing body that can speak on behalf of all foreign and Korean proteams. This won't work unless everyone agrees.




im sorry but I completely disagree with the first part(i like your 2nd idea tho)


If someone has to wait a year to get 2000 then it is completely not worth it and the tournament deserves to be shut down

and If you disagree then you must not pay any bills or have a job because anyone old enough would know that 2000 over a year is nothing when you can make twice that in a month

If you were a progamer and you were sitting at home on a wednesday night with nothing to do. You have a few options.

1) Ladder
2) Get some of your teammates and practice
3) Play in a small online tournament where you can win some money

Which do you choose? Even if 3) takes a year to pay, it is most often better than the other 2 options.

If you have nothing to do this weekend, wouldn't you rather go to IEM? Even if you know they will take a year to pay?

You also have to realize, the players/teams need these big events to operate. If sponsors aren't getting recognition, why the hell would they pay teams?
0ne
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Spain2464 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-31 16:47:02
October 31 2011 16:44 GMT
#150
On November 01 2011 01:36 BoomNasty wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2011 01:35 zeru wrote:
I'm surprised that this many people dont know it is like this. But yeah it totally sucks. I remember there being talk on TL about this months ago and rakaka.se made some charts

[image loading]



Can we all agree that MLG is the best tournament there is?

To be fair MLG has one of the smallest prize pools but still it's really good that you don't have to wait to get the money.
Bonkarooni
Profile Joined October 2010
United States383 Posts
October 31 2011 16:44 GMT
#151
mbcarmac on twitter. Lets tweet him and ask him whats up guys
KingVietKong
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States170 Posts
October 31 2011 16:44 GMT
#152
Even if they have new owners I'm not surprised at ESWC not paying, though I guess it's a bit early still. Maybe a few weeks should be given as a grace period, but it shouldn't take even that long.

I always thought ESL had their shit more together though. To see several pros without their dues from them is kind of.... sad and unsettling.
jmbthirteen
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States10734 Posts
October 31 2011 16:45 GMT
#153
On November 01 2011 01:40 ToguRo wrote:
this is awful .... but it does make me appreciate GSL,MLG,IEM, etc. that are professionally run and not screwing people over

Iem is run by the ESL guys so I would take that out of the organizations you listed.
www.superbeerbrothers.com
zeru
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
8156 Posts
October 31 2011 16:45 GMT
#154
--- Nuked ---
BoomNasty
Profile Joined June 2011
United States265 Posts
October 31 2011 16:45 GMT
#155
On November 01 2011 01:44 0ne wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2011 01:36 BoomNasty wrote:
On November 01 2011 01:35 zeru wrote:
I'm surprised that this many people dont know it is like this. But yeah it totally sucks. I remember there being talk on TL about this months ago and rakaka.se made some charts

[image loading]



Can we all agree that MLG is the best tournament there is?

To be fair MLG has one of the smallest prize pools but still it's really that you don't have to wait to get the money.


you missed my post about halo and mw2 having larger prize pools and still paying out int he same time. not to mention they are increasing prize pool next year.
I like..
lazyfeet
Profile Joined April 2010
United States468 Posts
October 31 2011 16:45 GMT
#156
On November 01 2011 01:40 ToguRo wrote:
this is awful .... but it does make me appreciate GSL,MLG,IEM, etc. that are professionally run and not screwing people over

I thought IEM and ESL are from same company with different tournament names.
LUCK is What Happens When Preparation Meets Opportunity.......
Adreme
Profile Joined June 2011
United States5574 Posts
October 31 2011 16:45 GMT
#157
On November 01 2011 01:43 Bonkarooni wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2011 01:40 DoomsVille wrote:
On November 01 2011 01:22 Zocat wrote:
Funny that one the same day where Cloud decides to go public with that carmac posts on his twitter "More likely than not we are witnessing "the SC2 bubble." It's not too overblown but still. Caution is advised." and "Many teams and some leagues will get horny and step out of bounds.".
Maybe he should put his own house in order first before saying that kind stuff...

Anyone that doesn't realize this is a bubble is idiotic. You have a bajillion tournaments springing up everywhere, small cups/dailies/weeklies.

The small cups realized hosting events is cheap. It costs almost nothing to host a GO4SC2. The investment is time/money. The payoff a few months ago was great. You would have thousands watching for less than $500 an investment. And so everyone started copying their model. And this was fine. Everything was working great.

But then one day the big companies realized content is cheap to produce. IPL, NASL, EGMC, and even MLG recently found out online tournaments are cheap. They do talk shows, interviews, news programs etc. etc. etc. They cost peanuts compared to large events and they pay off in spades. They broadcast on a very regular basis now and they dwarf over all the small cups/tournaments. You can have big names playing in a playhem/z33k tournament but no one will watch because they'll see some random IPL/NASL/EGMC/MLG broadcast on or some rebroadcast or some talk show.

The bubble is starting to collapse. The small events are realizing the viewers aren't there anymore. The Craftcup has already shut down. Most streamers can't get anywhere near the numbers they used to get. And hosting large events is almost as futile because every single weekend there is a major event.

TL;DR - There are too many events now. Some of them are going to collapse. It is just a matter of time.


Craftcup was always going to collapse, cause they didn't have a decent model/dedicated streamers to show their content Playhem runs daily tournaments, and their viewership is growing slowly but surely. Yeah, there are only so many people who are going to be able to watch a tournament every day, but...there's still enough to make everyone happy. Yeah, a few lesser known tournaments may die, but just because a company goes under doesn't mean "The bubble has collapsed"


Ya its more of a deflation than a collapse. A collapse would be if MLG and IPL both had to shut down due to both of them taking each others viewers too much.
TotalBiscuit
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United Kingdom5437 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-31 16:47:10
October 31 2011 16:45 GMT
#158
Well I'm glad a progamer actually said this publicly. This was actually one of the biggest reasons we started SHOUTcraft Invitational, because I'd talked to a number of great gamers who were trying to go fulltime pro, particularly in the UK scene, but couldn't because prizemoney was so unreliable. They had to take jobs which cut into their practice time to simply be able to eat and keep a roof over their heads. Our goal with SCI was to never host a tournament that we didn't have the money on hand, ready to pay and then payout within 24 hours to any player that had a Paypal account (wire transfer takes a little longer).

This kind of stuff hurts the scene for the reason given above. You can't rely on your income then you have to supplement it in way that cut into your practice time. Going pro in any game is a big risk, this only compounds that.
CommentatorHost of SHOUTcraft Clan Wars- http://www.mlg.tv/shoutcraft
Idnn
Profile Joined June 2011
6 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-31 16:46:15
October 31 2011 16:45 GMT
#159
This is awful that they don't pay out, they should be banned from making tornaments for atleast 1 year.
Liquid`HayprO
Profile Joined March 2003
Iraq1230 Posts
October 31 2011 16:46 GMT
#160
yeah ive had similar experiences. would be nice if they got more professional. u get dqed for being 15 min late.
Team LiquidOur friendship will be the stuff of legend.
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