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On October 31 2011 09:55 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2011 09:50 Zorgaz wrote:On October 31 2011 09:46 Plexa wrote:On October 31 2011 09:42 Sadistx wrote:On October 31 2011 09:38 Plexa wrote:
Doesn't seem too bad to be honest. But I don't think it's another thing that Terran needs in their arsenal. I think it would be much better suited to Protoss whose drop play already isn't that good (in comparison) and would benefit from a unit that's able to zone out areas (think speedling counters vs muta/ling). Warp prism + sentries + HT. There, it's already in the game. It's more expensive than say T's drops, but just as if not more powerful. Protoss drops are fine. Protoss drops are fine, they're just less accessible than Terrans. That means that protoss wouldn't be dropping these as frequently as Terrans would be, and if they were I would wager that they become vulnerable to mutalisks or strong roach/hydra counter pushes. On October 31 2011 09:43 Geovu wrote:
srsly though Plexa how can you watch that video and think "Yah I think this might be able to work"
:S I don't see why its much of an issue. It looks like queens can take them down just fine? Mass queen vs Protoss is common anyway. I have a feeling once people learn how to deal with them properly they won't be an issue. Obviously they solution isn't sending mass lings through a choke to clear them out  Yeah the queens did well enough, so roaches will do the job fine. Besides it costs 300/300 so dropping in to would be a big investment. Don't see this working in the higher leagues. Browder did mention that it might be too powerful in lower leagues though and if it becomes a guaranteed "I win" button in Bronze they're going to tweak it.
and then if that were to happen it would probably end up sucking at higher levels, in which blizzard will attempt some crazy change to make them usable at top levels but not abusive at low levels
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On October 31 2011 09:38 Plexa wrote:
Doesn't seem too bad to be honest. But I don't think it's another thing that Terran needs in their arsenal. I think it would be much better suited to Protoss whose drop play already isn't that good (in comparison) and would benefit from a unit that's able to zone out areas (think speedling counters vs muta/ling).
I think the warp prism buff was actually perfect, and warp prism is about right where it should be atm. The only thing I might change would simply be hotkeys (I think you can do it manually, but I use all the default ones) as the shift to phase mode in and out is retarded and I've lost my prism on countless occasions smashing D for some reason, not sure why. That and the warpin radius could be a little bigger.
Warp prisms with speed are absolutely brutal.
What I think needs to be changed with Protoss simply is charge. I hated the ability since it was first implemented. You know what would fix a lot of harass issues? ZEALOT SPEED! Not increasing it by a pitiful amount like .5, but actually bringing back speedlots! Oh man, I miss those so much from SC2. They should make it so charge is a separate upgrade making Zealots immune to any slow/snares (I'm looking at you Conc/Fungal).
Oh man, how off topic am I now >_<.
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Holy shit people need to stop whining and making huge blanket statements. I can't imagine some of you guys in brood war if the community were this big back then.
"what the fuck blizzard spider mines fucking RIDICULOUS - i have to have obs everywhere on the map or my army instantly evaporates"
Like seriously, can you imagine the brood war whine fest there would be if the games positions in time were in reverse? "omg dark swarm, omg irradiate, omg psi storm, omg lurker kill entire worker line in two shot, omg omg omg"
Seriously, stop. Stuff like this is exactly what brood war had and look at how fucking balanced brood war is.
It's good that each race gets some things that appear at first sight to be ridiculous, because in reality they won't be.
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Zergs already have a shredder. They drop banes in your mineral line, just as much potential devastation.
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Premature zerg whining, lovely.
The beta isn't even realesed yet, you could make videos about ultralisk charge and movable banes too and it'd seem fucking stupid as hell, doesn't make it true though. Just wait and see.
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The unit hasn't been tweaked one bit so I don't see how a discussion about the power of the shredder would be meaningful at this point. I'm sure they made it overpowered as crap to show the function and idea of it at Blizzcon, The ten second video wouldn't have been as exciting if it just did 'ok-ish' damage.
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This is not OP at all. Show some real defense next time and you'll it'll be nothing more than an annoyance.
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They really have to give this to toss... we're the ones who need a way to hold pos on the map/have good drop harrass....
PLZ BLIZZARD I BEG OF YOU
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Terrans getting complete as a race. Don't even need the last expansion, lol.
Zergs are getting very very versatile and competent as well.
Toss need some more work.
The shredder is very usable imo. It takes forever and a day to deploy so it will not be dropped or anything. It will be used as a safety against warpins/speedlings runbys.
In fact this comment ''If they prove to be a win unit in bronze we'll change/remove them'' convinced me that it's the exact same reason they came up with this unit. Newbie terrans who were ahead in the game and about to end it, get completely demolished by 20 lings raping their scvs/production buildings. Shredders will make their lives easier.
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It's not a question of whether the Shredder is OP or not (though I think it is). It's whether the unit as a whole is even necessary in the Terran arsenal. And honestly, I really don't think it is. It's another super powerful defense unit that will be added to what the Terran already have: Siege Tanks, Bunkers, movable buildings, etc.
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Watching this video, it didn't look too bad. Had to wonder why the Zerg decided to spawn a crapload of Zerglings as a direct reaction to a Shredder drop though.
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I don't think it's much stronger than banshee harass, but definitely gives Terran a lot of versatility on top of their already versatile race.
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Shredder isn't so imba as long as it cannot be loaded onto a medivac... It's suppose to be like a structure isn't it? (similar to spine/spore crawlers)
And I think it needs a nerf on range because queens and roaches can't kill it without taking damage, and that's bad for Zerg especially early-mid game. Maybe have considerably less damage on non-light units?
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So it is an infinite AOE psi storm. Cool. It'll help mech be generally more useful if they make it the right price. Though there could be funny issues like it making the Pfort redundant for bases with narrow chokes. I rather pay for 3 of those than 1 Pfort since I can move those around, have an extra orbital that can move around too.
Fun :D
Powert Overtwelming, Gentlemen.
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On October 31 2011 10:25 trinxified wrote:
Shredder isn't so imba as long as it cannot be loaded onto a medivac... It's suppose to be like a structure isn't it? (similar to spine/spore crawlers)
And I think it needs a nerf on range because queens and roaches can't kill it without taking damage, and that's bad for Zerg especially early-mid game. Maybe have considerably less damage on non-light units?
I agree - personally I'd rather keep it "stronger" in terms of dmg output and not be able to be loaded into a medivac - but I'm not sure how it would make sense. I mean clearly, it's a movable unit so it's not planted into the ground, and furthermore, I mean, we can lift a friggin' Thor in the medivac!!
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But seriously, am I wrong that a spine crawler can kill a infinite number of shredder? Can't a spine kill a siege tank protected shredder even, given that if the tank is in range of the spine, the shredder de-activates? It seems to me that the counter to these guys is just spines and creep tumors...but we all know how much zerg hates spreading creep.
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Canada11607 Posts
On October 31 2011 10:25 trinxified wrote:
Shredder isn't so imba as long as it cannot be loaded onto a medivac... It's suppose to be like a structure isn't it? (similar to spine/spore crawlers)
Oh come now, if the old thor can be loaded into medivacs, why not shredders? Maybe the unit needs to be on another race, maybe other units stats need to be changed to allow for shredders. But dropping potential makes it more interesting.
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It seems like this isn't as effective as a normal marine drop. Maybe combined they would be nice, but when you think about it, all the zerg has to do is run the drones away (marines can chase, shredder can't) and then attack it with a queen which he/she should already have at the base.....
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On October 31 2011 10:28 SolidZeal wrote:
But seriously, am I wrong that a spine crawler can kill a infinite number of shredder? Can't a spine kill a siege tank protected shredder even, given that if the tank is in range of the spine, the shredder de-activates? It seems to me that the counter to these guys is just spines and creep tumors...but we all know how much zerg hates spreading creep.
1. How does creep counter it? I can clearly burrow on creep...
2. Sure, a spine can kill it, but not before all your drones are dead if you don't see it in time T_T. Of course, that's like most harass, but now you're forced to build static defense?! Which limits your offensive capabilities, etc. Forcing static defense is damage in and of itself.
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On October 31 2011 09:49 Perseverance wrote:
These seem OP...but so does the viper so =/= I guess. Only time will tell.
Well the problem here is that the only thing that looks OP about the viper would be death grip. And if that breaks the game, it could easily be removed.
The shredder on the other hand is a one role unit, and if that role is imbalanced or ridiculous, then the shredder itself will have to be scrapped.
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EPT
