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The Powert of the Shredder - Drops and Defense vid - Page 6

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
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kofman
Profile Joined August 2011
Andorra698 Posts
October 31 2011 01:49 GMT
#101
On October 31 2011 10:07 DarkRise wrote:
so shredder + siege tanks + bunker?
Tell me how we gonna break this lol

Broodlords.
CaptainCharisma
Profile Joined February 2011
New Zealand808 Posts
October 31 2011 01:50 GMT
#102
On October 31 2011 10:36 Najda wrote:
Actually I was really worried about the shredder but now having seen the video it's not too scary anymore. It looks really easy to just pull the drones away and defend with your queen(s) alone.


Exactly. Drops could be a problem for noobs, but any decent player will pull workers away kill the shredders without too many problems. A medivac full of marines seems more dangerous than shredders, surely? The shredder is merely a defensive unit imo. Even then it will be easily taken out unless it is supported e.g. with seige tanks.
EG.DeMuslim --- EG.ThorZain --- TSL.Polt --- LGIMMvp --- Mill.fOrGG --- EG.Stephano --- EGiNcontroL --- EG.IdrA --- MarineKing.Prime --- SlayerS_MMA --- Liquid'Hero
CaptainCharisma
Profile Joined February 2011
New Zealand808 Posts
October 31 2011 01:50 GMT
#103
On October 31 2011 10:49 kofman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 31 2011 10:07 DarkRise wrote:
so shredder + siege tanks + bunker?
Tell me how we gonna break this lol

Broodlords.


Swarm Host?

Viper?
EG.DeMuslim --- EG.ThorZain --- TSL.Polt --- LGIMMvp --- Mill.fOrGG --- EG.Stephano --- EGiNcontroL --- EG.IdrA --- MarineKing.Prime --- SlayerS_MMA --- Liquid'Hero
razy
Profile Joined February 2010
Russian Federation899 Posts
October 31 2011 01:51 GMT
#104
On October 31 2011 10:50 CaptainCharisma wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 31 2011 10:49 kofman wrote:
On October 31 2011 10:07 DarkRise wrote:
so shredder + siege tanks + bunker?
Tell me how we gonna break this lol

Broodlords.


Swarm Host?

Viper?


or just protoss
zhurai
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States5660 Posts
October 31 2011 01:53 GMT
#105
why do terrans need this again? >_>

don't they already have a unit to control space?
Twitter: @zhurai | Site: http://zhurai.com
DeltaX
Profile Joined August 2011
United States287 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-31 01:55:00
October 31 2011 01:54 GMT
#106
I half expect some small (1 damage) pulse when they start to burrow so that people can pull their drones in time. 1 spine would clean that up quite fast.

If blizzard got desperate they could prevent shredders from getting put in medicacs, but with some sort of warning it should be fine.


I see 8 marines as doing much more damage personally.
zhurai
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States5660 Posts
October 31 2011 01:55 GMT
#107
On October 31 2011 10:54 DeltaX wrote:
I half expect some small (1 damage) pulse when they start to burrow so that people can pull their drones in time. 1 spine would clean that up quite fast.

If blizzard got desperate they could prevent shredders from getting put in medicacs, but with some sort of warning it should be fine.

"Shredder deployed to the field"

like they do for nukes and nyduses? ;D

oh and shredders should beep very very loud to opponents when near enemy buildings

:DDDDDD
Twitter: @zhurai | Site: http://zhurai.com
Scribble
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
2077 Posts
October 31 2011 01:58 GMT
#108
The shredder is pretty fascinating to me. Every race needs units that are insanely powerful - overpowered if you will. If each race has something that strong, it forces their opponent to control their units better instead of just relying on unit comps to counter the threat. Units like the BW siege tank, reaver, and lurker.

It's a step in the right direction, even if it does cause a lot of whine. As long as P and Z have units which are just as overpowered in ways that don't directly counter each other, there shouldn't be a problem. The viper might be the zerg's super powered unit, and fungals/cloud will certainly require control and not unit comp to counter, but what is it for protoss?

Along that line of thought, I'd really be interested in seeing colossi get a massive damage buff, and a collision size such that they cannot clump on top of stalkers/other colossi. I'd love to at least see them experiment a little more with ideas like this on the PTR or in the beta.
Eufouria
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United Kingdom4425 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-31 01:59:39
October 31 2011 01:59 GMT
#109
Arguing about the balance of a unit in a simulator of a game that Blizzard is obviously not close to finishing making changes to. Nice.

I still hope the Shredder gets removed though. It seems like a pretty shit idea for a unit and that won't get much use outside of turtling and stupid gimmicky plays. Its just a super boring unit imo and, like many have complained about (complaining about the concept is fine, balance complaining is just stupid, I doubt the game is even at a stage where its being balanced) is that Terran just don't need it as a unit, there is a pretty large overlap between it and other units.

At most I'd want it implemented as some sort of upgrade to turrets, but I don't really like that idea either because it would make ling runbys less powerful.
BurningSera
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Ireland19621 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-31 02:03:47
October 31 2011 02:01 GMT
#110
On October 31 2011 09:38 Zoia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 31 2011 09:37 akalarry wrote:
run your drones away, kill with roaches, terran loses 300 minerals/300 gas. you can't pull this off as harassment early game because with that much investment, zerg can just go kill you.


They cost 150/50 not 150/150


lol the price reminded me of hellion, 100mineral with 2hit aoe can roast so many drones^^

if the price and aoe remained the same, i dont think that i will buy HotS lol not that i really whine, i mean the game is not even out yet nobody can tells what will the final product looks like but i am just THAT sick of blizzard's way in giving terran too many cost effective units.

speaking of which, i bet a shredder can 1v1 kill an ultra(300min/200gas) lol
is 2017, stop being lame, fuck's sakes. 'Can't wait for the rise of the cakes and humanity's last stand tbqh.'
Imalengrat
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Australia365 Posts
October 31 2011 02:03 GMT
#111

Mini Hydralisks look awesome!
Mass Motherships Counters Almost everything
SolidZeal
Profile Joined October 2010
United States393 Posts
October 31 2011 02:04 GMT
#112
On October 31 2011 10:30 FabledIntegral wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 31 2011 10:28 SolidZeal wrote:
But seriously, am I wrong that a spine crawler can kill a infinite number of shredder? Can't a spine kill a siege tank protected shredder even, given that if the tank is in range of the spine, the shredder de-activates? It seems to me that the counter to these guys is just spines and creep tumors...but we all know how much zerg hates spreading creep.


1. How does creep counter it? I can clearly burrow on creep...
2. Sure, a spine can kill it, but not before all your drones are dead if you don't see it in time T_T. Of course, that's like most harass, but now you're forced to build static defense?! Which limits your offensive capabilities, etc. Forcing static defense is damage in and of itself.


Yeah, I'm not saying that creep stops it, but it sure as hell can't stop creep tumors or spine crawlers. you don't have to build static D to stop a shredder drop, but a spine crawler WILL fight it off. You can use just units to kill a Shredder drop no problem. If you're slow on the draw it will force off timing time and if you suck it up, it will kill all your workers. This doesn't look much different than a marine drop in effectiveness.

The reason i bring up creep is that if a terran is heavily utilizing shredders to zone the map, you can take zones back using creep. If he brings in units to clear creep the shredder become vulnerable, or like I described, you can take them out later in the game with spine crawlers. Late game spine crawlers are.....well if you don't have them, then why the hell not?
In the clearing stands a boxer and a figher by his trade
Subversion
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
South Africa3627 Posts
October 31 2011 02:05 GMT
#113
I think the problem is Blizzard designed this unit as defensive, and probably haven't fully considered it's offensive capabilities.
caradoc
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada3022 Posts
October 31 2011 02:06 GMT
#114

Drop shredder on zerg main ramp, deploy, drop main mineral line. No zerglings/banelings are going to stop this drop.
Salvation a la mode and a cup of tea...
Zaurus
Profile Joined October 2010
Singapore676 Posts
October 31 2011 02:06 GMT
#115
On October 31 2011 10:32 Eps wrote:
This just shows the extremes of what can happen for an inadequately prepared opponent. 1 Spine shuts this down so hard. There's no way it'll have 7 range.

With the time it takes to set up, workers can easily run away. It looks like 2 Queens even without tranfuse will be able to take it down easily. Vid shows about 3-sec set up time.
Not to mention with the Viper's pull ability, I can see it dragging away somewhere safe unless it can't be targeted.
If I recall correctly, it can't even be deployed near Terran's own units or else they disengage as well.

I much rather have Spider Mines.


Even if someone has 0 reaction time, we don't have units all over the place at all the time. I hate it when people get all smart and give straight in your face type of answer that is common sense. You think we are all stupid? Of course we know we have to defend our mineral lines and watch for drops. When a medivac is flying in, how much resources worth of units should I pull to defend without risking my front? And at one time you can only react to one drop at a time no matter how fast you are. Dropping 2 shredder at 2 different mineral lines and attacking the front, is easy to execute and efficient, but defending is so hard. If you pull too much unit you are screwed. What if you decide to pull just 2 stalkers and a group of marauder and marine is in the drop?
SheaR619
Profile Joined October 2010
United States2399 Posts
October 31 2011 02:07 GMT
#116
It takes 4 ticks to kill 1 drone. That decent dps but not rediculas. I think it perfect =]
I may not be the best, but i will be some day...
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
October 31 2011 02:07 GMT
#117
Late game shredders in drops are OP as fuck lol
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
BurningSera
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Ireland19621 Posts
October 31 2011 02:08 GMT
#118
On October 31 2011 11:05 Subversion wrote:
I think the problem is Blizzard designed this unit as defensive, and probably haven't fully considered it's offensive capabilities.


so patchnote: the unit will not be activated when there is no CC within its radius of 500?
sounds balance to me lol (no sarcasm i am serious!)
is 2017, stop being lame, fuck's sakes. 'Can't wait for the rise of the cakes and humanity's last stand tbqh.'
pezit
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden302 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-31 02:14:23
October 31 2011 02:10 GMT
#119
No one good is gonna drop shredders because it is just way too slow, in the time it takes to activate the shredder a marine drop would have killed the entire worker line. The swarm host is just a ridiculous unit that will hopefully and probably change before release and the BC speed boost seems fine i guess.

Oh and the shredder is another red alert 2 unit making a comeback. I guess Dustin Browder thinks RA2 > Broodwar.
Jacob666
Profile Joined January 2011
United States285 Posts
October 31 2011 02:12 GMT
#120
Another thing thats OP, is toss making assimilator in your base then turning it into cannon, kills so many workers
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