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On October 31 2011 09:46 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2011 09:42 Sadistx wrote:On October 31 2011 09:38 Plexa wrote:
Doesn't seem too bad to be honest. But I don't think it's another thing that Terran needs in their arsenal. I think it would be much better suited to Protoss whose drop play already isn't that good (in comparison) and would benefit from a unit that's able to zone out areas (think speedling counters vs muta/ling). Warp prism + sentries + HT. There, it's already in the game. It's more expensive than say T's drops, but just as if not more powerful. Protoss drops are fine. Protoss drops are fine, they're just less accessible than Terrans. That means that protoss wouldn't be dropping these as frequently as Terrans would be, and if they were I would wager that they become vulnerable to mutalisks or strong roach/hydra counter pushes. Show nested quote +On October 31 2011 09:43 Geovu wrote:
srsly though Plexa how can you watch that video and think "Yah I think this might be able to work"
:S I don't see why its much of an issue. It looks like queens can take them down just fine? Mass queen vs Protoss is common anyway. I have a feeling once people learn how to deal with them properly they won't be an issue. Obviously they solution isn't sending mass lings through a choke to clear them out 
Yeah the queens did well enough, so roaches will do the job fine.
Edit: Apparently I'm a idiot who needs to check his facts ^^:
Anywhere i can see all the costs of HOTS units Plexa? 
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On October 31 2011 09:48 DystopiaX wrote:
heard it wasn't droppable...that+can't drop on creep would be fine IMO. Also agree with everything Plexa said, the most surprising HOTS info for me was the fact that none of the new P units seem to be primarily intended for harass, which seems to be the most universal complaint amongst P players.
The Oracle was designed as a harass unit.
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@Zorgaz - they cost 150/50 each
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On October 31 2011 09:48 DystopiaX wrote:
heard it wasn't droppable...that+can't drop on creep would be fine IMO. Also agree with everything Plexa said, the most surprising HOTS info for me was the fact that none of the new P units seem to be primarily intended for harass, which seems to be the most universal complaint amongst P players.
Oracle is intended primarily for harass. In fact, it is intended for harass to such an extent that it cannot do anything else. Which makes it all the more amusing that it still doesn't solve the primary Protoss problems at all.
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On October 31 2011 09:31 razy wrote:![[image loading]](http://ru.memegenerator.net/cache/instances/400x/10/10773/11032178.jpg)
Ned never actually said 'Brace yourself'.
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lmao this video should not be the reason why ppl think shredder is op. brb running all my drones and zerglings into it to try to prove it's imba. marine drops are infinitely better than this shredder drop bs.
instead, talk about how you can use it to zone against zerg. tanks + shredders would be a powerful combo. however it costs a lot, and your units can't be inside it. just wait until people actually play the game before you whine. ppl on the internet complain so easily it's quite fascinating.
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Ty plexa for attempting to keep the ragers in check ^_^
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On October 31 2011 09:38 Zoia wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2011 09:37 akalarry wrote:
run your drones away, kill with roaches, terran loses 300 minerals/300 gas. you can't pull this off as harassment early game because with that much investment, zerg can just go kill you. They cost 150/50 not 150/150
Can we get a confirm/deny on this? it seems very relevant to the discussion even though numbers are obviously not final. I don't think it's OP or out of line at all, a single spine crawler can kill infinite shredders. Roaches will most likely be the other best response. It will be a tough unit on players who don't look at the minimap, just like the Oracle. The burrow time is long enough that pros will hardly ever be phased by this i imagine.Though, It does give the potential to deny mining time or punish zerg who are too ling heavy. The video illustrates the shredder in a way to make it look OP, but I really don't think it's too bad.
Also is the range 5 or 6? on the shredder?
Thanks for making the post though OP, the HotS custom game sounds awesome.
Edit: thanks for the info Plexa, that makes this look a lot stronger, but it still don't think it's that bad.
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On October 31 2011 09:50 Zorgaz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2011 09:46 Plexa wrote:On October 31 2011 09:42 Sadistx wrote:On October 31 2011 09:38 Plexa wrote:
Doesn't seem too bad to be honest. But I don't think it's another thing that Terran needs in their arsenal. I think it would be much better suited to Protoss whose drop play already isn't that good (in comparison) and would benefit from a unit that's able to zone out areas (think speedling counters vs muta/ling). Warp prism + sentries + HT. There, it's already in the game. It's more expensive than say T's drops, but just as if not more powerful. Protoss drops are fine. Protoss drops are fine, they're just less accessible than Terrans. That means that protoss wouldn't be dropping these as frequently as Terrans would be, and if they were I would wager that they become vulnerable to mutalisks or strong roach/hydra counter pushes. On October 31 2011 09:43 Geovu wrote:
srsly though Plexa how can you watch that video and think "Yah I think this might be able to work"
:S I don't see why its much of an issue. It looks like queens can take them down just fine? Mass queen vs Protoss is common anyway. I have a feeling once people learn how to deal with them properly they won't be an issue. Obviously they solution isn't sending mass lings through a choke to clear them out Yeah the queens did well enough, so roaches will do the job fine. Besides it costs 300/300 so dropping in to would be a big investment. Don't see this working in the higher leagues.
Browder did mention that it might be too powerful in lower leagues though and if it becomes a guaranteed "I win" button in Bronze they're going to tweak it.
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On October 31 2011 09:36 red4ce wrote:
Blizz could always just make it so the shredder isn't activated by workers the same way workers didn't trigger spider mines in BW.
Thats cuz all the workers floated in BW, and mines didnt activate for flying/floating units
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hmm this doesnt seem that bad. I think 1 queen shoujld be able to kill it though but it doesnt seem that bad. I mean you have time to spot the drop, and you have time before it deploys to the ground. It also rather expensive too. Droping 2 and it like dropping the resources worth of a CC.
It was no where near as bad as I though it would be which makes me glad :D
On October 31 2011 09:55 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2011 09:50 Zorgaz wrote:On October 31 2011 09:46 Plexa wrote:On October 31 2011 09:42 Sadistx wrote:On October 31 2011 09:38 Plexa wrote:
Doesn't seem too bad to be honest. But I don't think it's another thing that Terran needs in their arsenal. I think it would be much better suited to Protoss whose drop play already isn't that good (in comparison) and would benefit from a unit that's able to zone out areas (think speedling counters vs muta/ling). Warp prism + sentries + HT. There, it's already in the game. It's more expensive than say T's drops, but just as if not more powerful. Protoss drops are fine. Protoss drops are fine, they're just less accessible than Terrans. That means that protoss wouldn't be dropping these as frequently as Terrans would be, and if they were I would wager that they become vulnerable to mutalisks or strong roach/hydra counter pushes. On October 31 2011 09:43 Geovu wrote:
srsly though Plexa how can you watch that video and think "Yah I think this might be able to work"
:S I don't see why its much of an issue. It looks like queens can take them down just fine? Mass queen vs Protoss is common anyway. I have a feeling once people learn how to deal with them properly they won't be an issue. Obviously they solution isn't sending mass lings through a choke to clear them out Yeah the queens did well enough, so roaches will do the job fine. Besides it costs 300/300 so dropping in to would be a big investment. Don't see this working in the higher leagues. Browder did mention that it might be too powerful in lower leagues though and if it becomes a guaranteed "I win" button in Bronze they're going to tweak it.
He never said that. He said IF it does become like that and he said that in regard to all strategy and not just this.
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Canada11607 Posts
On October 31 2011 09:52 Toadvine wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2011 09:48 DystopiaX wrote:
heard it wasn't droppable...that+can't drop on creep would be fine IMO. Also agree with everything Plexa said, the most surprising HOTS info for me was the fact that none of the new P units seem to be primarily intended for harass, which seems to be the most universal complaint amongst P players. Oracle is intended primarily for harass. In fact, it is intended for harass to such an extent that it cannot do anything else. Which makes it all the more amusing that it still doesn't solve the primary Protoss problems at all.
Very true, which is why I think the Shredder is a much better designed unit. It's not necessarily designed for harass, but its utility is flexible so it can be used in a variety of situations including harass. I would take the shredder over the Oracle for Protoss despite Artosis' opinion of Oracle.
This unit will need balancing, but if it does have that flexibility, it's pretty cool.
Oh! I'm a reaver now. How ironic, if only...
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All stats will change, in beta and beyond. For example, if this unit can't be dropped and moves very slowly, its offensive usage becomes very limited. Blizzard can make all new units viable, within reason.
edit: I remember when people thought banelings are stupid units that would never work well in Starcraft and would be removed next patch. One year later, they are fine and crowds love them.
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Kind of dislike being forced into roaches vs. Terran, but we'll see how it's tweaked.
The biggest thing is that it seems to kill larva really fast, I hope they change that if nothing else.
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On October 31 2011 09:55 SheaR619 wrote:
He never said that. He said IF it does become like that and he said that in regard to all strategy and not just this.
How is that any different than what I said? The point is that the developers look at more than just whether or not the pros can handle it. Given that pros can handle just about anything I'm pretty glad they do.
What was that match in IEM where Strelok accidentally loaded a map where marines did 15 damage? The Zerg player even held his own in that situation. Even wildly overpowered things can look not so bad when a pro is dealing with them.
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Now since the shredder is made from the factory, when I see that I slap down my roach warren just incase terran is going mech. Or muta/banes if they're gonna be doing drops marine tank play (but still have a roach warren just to switch it up soemtimes). So I'd like to see how long it takes for someone to see a drop, make all the larva at the hatchery into roaches or a few mutas and see how long the shredder takes to burrow and see what happens. I wonder if they can stop it effectively or not. Lings are obviously bad against shredders.
So a little bit of an unfair comparison. But i do think what the shit with their HP :S
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On October 31 2011 09:43 Carush wrote:
it blows my mind that people are complaining about this already
its a fanmade version of a unmade game..............
seriously people come on
If anything, this should just show you how much people care about the content and the high expectations that players have for HOTS. I as much as anyone don't want Blizzard to screw this up ><.
Looking forward to Swarm Host, Viper necessary addition...Shredder overlaps with T too much already, yet doesn't fit with toss. I'd much rather that Blizzard get rid of:
1. Sensor tower.
2. Supply drop calldown.
3. Planetary fortress.
4. Bunker salvage.
If they even want to consider putting something which has as much potential as the shredder.
Besides, those 4 are really redudancies that shouldn't exist and are boo-boos. (Well, no one uses sensor towers enough to justify their existance, supply drop not needed as it is bandage for poor play, if you are going to have a shredder then the PF should go, bunker salvage debatable).
Either that or just don't put in the fucking shredder at all. It's just a glorified super mine that's too complex.
Also, fix the fucking goliath model. I'm getting scared ^^.
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I just think it's so wrong for the shredder being able to burrow down on the creep and slaughter. That could be compared as if a Zerg could take a spinecrawler and burrow it down anywhere on the map which the Zerg cant.
The creep is Zerg's territory I dont approve any of the ideas about the shredder being able to burrow down there, or warping in zealots on the creep cuz the pylon is beside the creep etc..it just feels wrong.
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Put 1 spine in your mineral line and stop crying. It will be strongest vs Terran with our lack of ground static D. Might not be dropable, might not work on creep, might not make it to release. Actually disregard all I have said. I like Zerg tears.
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so shredder + siege tanks + bunker?
Tell me how we gonna break this lol
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EPT
