|
On October 23 2011 02:27 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 02:21 MattyClutch wrote:On October 23 2011 02:08 testthewest wrote:
The new toss harrass unit is just a bad idea. So if my opponent does nothing, I do 500 minerals eco-dmg (as said by Blizzard in the Video). Well, if a banshee kills just 5 workers, that costs 250 minerals to replace, as well as 250 extra minerals that these 5 workers would have harvested in the time it needs to rebuild.
And then, when banshee returns home, she is a decent fighting unit, while or harrass unit is just dead weight on our supply.
I feel the same way. He was like 'and for all that you did 500 minerals damage assuming your opponent is AFK'. Hardly seems worth the effort. Might as well go for a traditional warp prism drop which has the ability to do damage to people who aren't asleep. The building take out feature of it could be quite useful, however. I see it more being useful in a traditional army just taking out static D, though it could harass via taking out buildings temporarily. But yeah from an econ point of view that unit looks like a waste of supply, build time, and resources. Protoss just like to cry. Actually the Oracle has a nice design, the idea is not bad. You just need to brain on how to use it, at which moment, at least let the game go. The replicant on the other hand is just a bullshit unit " look my unit arsenal is actually so weak and incomplete that i will borrow your unit to fix the shit out".
And you wonder why protoss complain?
|
On October 23 2011 03:49 Reaper51 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 03:46 EnclaveUSA wrote:even without the orcale dts can easily snipe spores No, they can't. Zerglings will kill dts not always before detection is destroyed my other concern is with the new terran mech deathball which is easily better than the bio ball and can be attainable by midgame
It sounds like you want Blizzard to give you protection from completely fucking up.
|
On October 23 2011 00:08 Shurayuki wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 00:02 Osmoses wrote:
I feel bad for protoss. The tempest feels like it's fulfilling a need that didn't exist. Archons and templars handled mass muta just fine. And introducing a capital ship just to counter that one composition is... stupid. It's stupid. As for the replicator, how do you balance something like that? That aside, it's gimmicky and silly. The oracle I think is fine, except for the "mineral bubble" spell. I mean what the hell blizzard. I don't even know how to attack that, it's so silly on so many levels.
edit: Also, just AXE the damn Thor already. We know you love it, you think it's sooo cool, but it doesn't FIT! did you ever like...play protoss? because Templar Archon doesn't do anything to well controlled MutaClouds, go ask any pros what they think about that and they will probably laugh in your face :o (Incontrol for example continuously raggin on about archons doing jack)
Gee wonder why all zergs don't just go mass muta then. No offense to InControl, but I don't really consider him an authority on this.
|
can you stasis a PF? or that shield thingy...what ever its called? Oh i would love this
|
On October 23 2011 03:12 Aiurr wrote:
If that gay warhouds are for real then I am switching to zerg. Terran is no fun anymore. Blizzard makes it into a stupid turtle race... I didn't want more turtling... I wanted more mobility...
I take it yo didn't play BW. Terran was slowwwww in that game. You needed heavy Siege tank in every MU.
The replicant on the other hand is just a bullshit unit "look my unit arsenal is actually so weak and incomplete that i will borrow your unit to fix the shit out".
Protoss' unit arsenal is weak and incomplete.  You're right.
|
On October 23 2011 03:38 Lazerlike42 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 03:36 RavenLoud wrote:
Well fuck, I really don't know why we complain that the whole package of t1-t3 units can actually beat t1 barracks unit with medivacs...but I like the terran changes. The shredder absolutely need a nerf against workers though...a couple of them will own/shut down the mineral line way better than any storm or baneling drops ever could. Nonsense. Storm and baneling drops are instantaneous. Shredders need to deploy, which gives you more than enough time to move your workers. By the time see the blip on the minimap that happens to be a warp prism, its too late. Same for an overlord. In terms of damage, the banelings would do almost twice as much damage as storm or the shredder, which effectively does the same damage as storm.
Yeah I don't know the exact stats, but from the short 20 sec video I gathered, it doesn't take more than a second or two to deploy. It also has the advantage of shutting down the mineral line until it's chased away. The DPS I witnessed seemed enough to require a large force to deal with a few of them and to devastate 20+ workers no less instantaneous than storm.
|
i am so gonna put shredders at watchtowers with tanks behind it ^^
helLOW 100% winrate TvZ shakuras
|
Haha the 63% of people that dont like the new terran units must play protoss and zerg because I dont see how you cannot like the new units XD Zerg units look really great, moving burrowed banes are going to be ridiculously awesome. As well as the new ultra ability, I remember reading and hearing about people asking for an ultra charge and the can do it while burrowed /drool. Think Ill actually be scared now when I see a bunch of ultras coming at me :D Not to impressed with the protoss changes, but who knows maybe they really got the best deal out of the races.... lol alright I tried to say that last part with a straight face. Maybe in Legacy of the Void guys....
|
On October 23 2011 03:51 Teejing wrote:
seems like position becomes less and less immportant, hots seems to take a step towards C&C and away from sc bw.
Not really, all races got some form of base defence/turtle options.
T: siege tank + shredders = no land unit can basically enter.
P: mass recall... need I say more?
Z: tunnelling claw banelings means workers can kite the dropped marines and as they walk past burrowed banelings, BAM, that's the end of that harass.
|
On October 23 2011 03:56 SuperYo1000 wrote:
can you stasis a PF? or that shield thingy...what ever its called? Oh i would love this
I don't *think* you can phase shift command structures.
|
On October 23 2011 03:56 Osmoses wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 00:08 Shurayuki wrote:On October 23 2011 00:02 Osmoses wrote:
I feel bad for protoss. The tempest feels like it's fulfilling a need that didn't exist. Archons and templars handled mass muta just fine. And introducing a capital ship just to counter that one composition is... stupid. It's stupid. As for the replicator, how do you balance something like that? That aside, it's gimmicky and silly. The oracle I think is fine, except for the "mineral bubble" spell. I mean what the hell blizzard. I don't even know how to attack that, it's so silly on so many levels.
edit: Also, just AXE the damn Thor already. We know you love it, you think it's sooo cool, but it doesn't FIT! did you ever like...play protoss? because Templar Archon doesn't do anything to well controlled MutaClouds, go ask any pros what they think about that and they will probably laugh in your face :o (Incontrol for example continuously raggin on about archons doing jack) Gee wonder why all zergs don't just go mass muta then. No offense to InControl, but I don't really consider him an authority on this.
Muta ling used to be "OP" for toss at one point, that's why they buffed the pheonix. However the reason why it was phased out is because if toss scouts a muta opening they will just kill the zerg with a 6 gate. Then it was a roach hydra corruptor time where every zerg QQ'd about the deathball, followed by the ling-infestor trend.
Now that 6 gate doesn't really work as well it's starting to come back. The removal of khaydarin amulet may have made them even harder to deal with than before. Sometimes toss resort to archon-mothership against muta harass.
|
|
|
I would trade my oracles for soul hunters anyday...
|
On October 23 2011 03:56 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 03:12 Aiurr wrote:
If that gay warhouds are for real then I am switching to zerg. Terran is no fun anymore. Blizzard makes it into a stupid turtle race... I didn't want more turtling... I wanted more mobility...
I take it yo didn't play BW. Terran was slowwwww in that game. You needed heavy Siege tank in every MU. Show nested quote +The replicant on the other hand is just a bullshit unit "look my unit arsenal is actually so weak and incomplete that i will borrow your unit to fix the shit out". Protoss' unit arsenal is weak and incomplete. You're right.
This isn't BW
|
Russian Federation473 Posts
i wonder about warhound's left hand (what's the purpose of this cylinder?)
and it seems to be a machine-gun on its top doesn't it?
|
So how exactly do you kill a shredder? Are they cloaked/burrowed/flying?
As for the overall protoss changes, I don't think protoss was helped too much with the new units and if level2 and level3 forge upgrades are going to cost more, 'we' are in trouble.
The one exception is being able to mass recall from a Nexus...THIS IS HUGE and more important than all other protoss changes added together. Protoss units will never have to stay home guarding the chicken coup and can constantly be in the field getting into scraps and being warped home just as they're about to be attacked. This is the one thing that has me really excited for in HOTS as a protoss player and I hope Blizzard doesn't kill this feature.
|
The swarm host video is great. No way a real player doesn't scan there and just destroy them. I'm a bit disappointed in the design as it seems pretty gimmicky and doesn't do what the zerg needs, which is area denial. Plus it doesn't look like it does much on it's own or in few numbers since the cooldown on making a unit seems pretty long. I wouldn't exactly describe this as being a siege unit.
Baneling movement, meh I'd rather not rely on them having no detection that would probably be pretty mandatory by hive tech for other races.
The viper seems ok, but if it's taking the place of overseers, I don't know. Wasn't scouting one of the biggest problems for zerg? I'm a bit weary on this if it makes from the spire being an air unit and all. Spire already takes so long, but then having to rely on it for both scouting and detection. The other abilities seem pretty nice, the "hookshot" being lolz, basically a flying neural parasite type spell that you'll only use on a few select units. I could definitely see some crazy chains going on to grab a colossus and pull it deep inside the zerg base.
...And then the hydra. Funny how most of zergs units require a speedupgrade to be actually effective. I'll take it though.
I know all of this is subject to change, but nothing really grabbed me with a "WOW" other than the viper and that was mainly for the darkswarm type ability.
|
Don't see the pros using the Tempest and here's why:
The basics:
Requires: Stargate, Fleet Beacon (which cost 300/200)
health 300
shield 150
Ground attack: 35 (not AOE)
Air attack: 22 (Psi-storm size AoE)
Cost: 300/300
Range: Tough to say...maybe 4-5 (not great)...ground range looks longer...maybe 7
Cool down: Again tough to say...maybe the same as an immortal
In the demo that Dustin showed, he stacked a large number of mutas by attacking one pylon, then with no micro let them stay clumped and engage 4 tempests directly in a slugfest. The tempests win with Dustin indicating this this was a little OP in favor of the tempest and that they would probably be nerfed in the future.
Even without the nerf, these units don't look that good. Psi storm does 80 damage vs the tempests 22 damage (same radius) plus psi storm has better range. If Dustin had done this same demonstration with unmicrod mutas vs psi-storm that would have looked bad for the mutas as well, but this is all very deceptive. For 22 attack and no ground AOE, I don't see this being effective against non-muta air units even in mass. Vs mutas, the mutas will simply fly away like they do with psi-storm. Even in head-to-head engagements.... Mutas have 120 hps, so if the tempest does 22 damage (if my source is correct) , then it will take 6 shots to kill a muta and that's off of a huge cool down.
If you add up all the money say three tempests + fleet beacon cost you get 1200/1100 in cost (plus 18 supply?). This doesn't make sense especially when so many zergs will go say ~10 mutas to contain and scout protoss, and then do a tech switch once protoss over-invest in anti-air.
The build time for each tempest will no doubt be ridiculous (over a minute a piece) and when you add in the build time for the fleet beacon (60 seconds), I don't see these units (even if they were effective 1 on 1) being constructed fast enough to counter mass muta.
In the end the most effective strategy protoss will have for mass muta will be guardian shield/blink stalkers + archons/storm for large flocks + timely aggression and scouting. Don't see the tempest as being viable although I wish it would be.
|
On October 23 2011 03:25 Fungal Growth wrote:
Think the Swarm Host's are getting a bad rap in the thread... In WOL, zerg doesn't have a cloak attack unit (burrowed roaches don't count) so this forces the opposition to get detection. Very important when zerg wants to maintain a defenders advantage. Many protoss builds skip the robo bay vs zerg...they will no longer be able to do this (well also because banelings will be able to move underground as well...but they will probably be too slow to be effective).
Burrowed roaches do count, as they can burrow to regain health after killing off the workers. Burrowed infestors can do damage too (as a recent pro example relative to this post's time will show).
|
3 new mech units huh?
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/5yj30.jpg)
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
