EPTOn October 23 2011 04:42 SuperYo1000 wrote:
ya...i think the mineral shield harass thing should be unbreakable for a reasonable amount of time....then maybe...just maybe it will be viable
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2011 04:40 MattyClutch wrote:
That is what I thought of when I saw that.
I was like so... this is my counter to people going mass muta and then not using them at all until I get out 4 fleet becon tech units? + Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://th04.deviantart.net/fs71/150/f/2011/145/9/1/rage_faces_by_shishywonka-d3h8gca.png)
That said it could work out well, I will wait to see it really used before I judge it. The only one I straight out dislike is our harass unit's mineral FF. If he hadn't done such a terrible job describing it I might like it better. He basically said "For tons of minerals and gas you can maybe get 500 minerals of lost mining time - if the other guy is AFK. All his workers and buildings will be fine though.". It was like even he thought it was a stupid idea.
In both cases I think it was just poorly explained and maybe they make a lot more sense when I can see them in actual games played by people with a solid amount of HOTS time.
For the other races units I think all the Zerg stuff looked neat, but might be a bit too much. They look terrifying. Again a wait and see thing.
I thought Terran looks fine except the shredder. And I can see the shredder working well and leading to neat games, I just don't think it (or really the replicant) feel very StarCraft-ish. They seem like units pulled from a Red Alert title. Don't get me wrong I loved Red Alert 1 & 2, but it has a very different feel from StarCraft 2.
On October 23 2011 04:29 Rorschach wrote:
Its silly to think a super expensive corsair that requires a fleetbeacon will be out in time to deal with muta.
Its range is 6 which isn't bad but with a relatively slow attack speed mutas will just not choose to engage like thors controls air space...
What I wonder is if it can be kited by vikings or is it fast enough to force an engagements. might make for some very interesting LATE game comps against terran with collosi and tempest synergizing well.....
On October 23 2011 04:23 Fungal Growth wrote:
Don't see the pros using the Tempest and here's why:
The basics:
Requires: Stargate, Fleet Beacon (which cost 300/200)
health 300
shield 150
Ground attack: 35 (not AOE)
Air attack: 22 (Psi-storm size AoE)
Cost: 300/300
Range: Tough to say...maybe 4-5 (not great)...ground range looks longer...maybe 7
Cool down: Again tough to say...maybe the same as an immortal
In the demo that Dustin showed, he stacked a large number of mutas by attacking one pylon, then with no micro let them stay clumped and engage 4 tempests directly in a slugfest. The tempests win with Dustin indicating this this was a little OP in favor of the tempest and that they would probably be nerfed in the future.
Even without the nerf, these units don't look that good. Psi storm does 80 damage vs the tempests 22 damage (same radius) plus psi storm has better range. If Dustin had done this same demonstration with unmicrod mutas vs psi-storm that would have looked bad for the mutas as well, but this is all very deceptive. For 22 attack and no ground AOE, I don't see this being effective against non-muta air units even in mass. Vs mutas, the mutas will simply fly away like they do with psi-storm. Even in head-to-head engagements.... Mutas have 120 hps, so if the tempest does 22 damage (if my source is correct) , then it will take 6 shots to kill a muta and that's off of a huge cool down.
If you add up all the money say three tempests + fleet beacon cost you get 1200/1100 in cost (plus 18 supply?). This doesn't make sense especially when so many zergs will go say ~10 mutas to contain and scout protoss, and then do a tech switch once protoss over-invest in anti-air.
The build time for each tempest will no doubt be ridiculous (over a minute a piece) and when you add in the build time for the fleet beacon (60 seconds), I don't see these units (even if they were effective 1 on 1) being constructed fast enough to counter mass muta.
In the end the most effective strategy protoss will have for mass muta will be guardian shield/blink stalkers + archons/storm for large flocks + timely aggression and scouting. Don't see the tempest as being viable although I wish it would be.
Don't see the pros using the Tempest and here's why:
The basics:
Requires: Stargate, Fleet Beacon (which cost 300/200)
health 300
shield 150
Ground attack: 35 (not AOE)
Air attack: 22 (Psi-storm size AoE)
Cost: 300/300
Range: Tough to say...maybe 4-5 (not great)...ground range looks longer...maybe 7
Cool down: Again tough to say...maybe the same as an immortal
In the demo that Dustin showed, he stacked a large number of mutas by attacking one pylon, then with no micro let them stay clumped and engage 4 tempests directly in a slugfest. The tempests win with Dustin indicating this this was a little OP in favor of the tempest and that they would probably be nerfed in the future.
Even without the nerf, these units don't look that good. Psi storm does 80 damage vs the tempests 22 damage (same radius) plus psi storm has better range. If Dustin had done this same demonstration with unmicrod mutas vs psi-storm that would have looked bad for the mutas as well, but this is all very deceptive. For 22 attack and no ground AOE, I don't see this being effective against non-muta air units even in mass. Vs mutas, the mutas will simply fly away like they do with psi-storm. Even in head-to-head engagements.... Mutas have 120 hps, so if the tempest does 22 damage (if my source is correct) , then it will take 6 shots to kill a muta and that's off of a huge cool down.
If you add up all the money say three tempests + fleet beacon cost you get 1200/1100 in cost (plus 18 supply?). This doesn't make sense especially when so many zergs will go say ~10 mutas to contain and scout protoss, and then do a tech switch once protoss over-invest in anti-air.
The build time for each tempest will no doubt be ridiculous (over a minute a piece) and when you add in the build time for the fleet beacon (60 seconds), I don't see these units (even if they were effective 1 on 1) being constructed fast enough to counter mass muta.
In the end the most effective strategy protoss will have for mass muta will be guardian shield/blink stalkers + archons/storm for large flocks + timely aggression and scouting. Don't see the tempest as being viable although I wish it would be.
Its silly to think a super expensive corsair that requires a fleetbeacon will be out in time to deal with muta.
Its range is 6 which isn't bad but with a relatively slow attack speed mutas will just not choose to engage like thors controls air space...
What I wonder is if it can be kited by vikings or is it fast enough to force an engagements. might make for some very interesting LATE game comps against terran with collosi and tempest synergizing well.....
That is what I thought of when I saw that.
I was like so... this is my counter to people going mass muta and then not using them at all until I get out 4 fleet becon tech units? + Show Spoiler +That said it could work out well, I will wait to see it really used before I judge it. The only one I straight out dislike is our harass unit's mineral FF. If he hadn't done such a terrible job describing it I might like it better. He basically said "For tons of minerals and gas you can maybe get 500 minerals of lost mining time - if the other guy is AFK. All his workers and buildings will be fine though.". It was like even he thought it was a stupid idea.
In both cases I think it was just poorly explained and maybe they make a lot more sense when I can see them in actual games played by people with a solid amount of HOTS time.
For the other races units I think all the Zerg stuff looked neat, but might be a bit too much. They look terrifying. Again a wait and see thing.
I thought Terran looks fine except the shredder. And I can see the shredder working well and leading to neat games, I just don't think it (or really the replicant) feel very StarCraft-ish. They seem like units pulled from a Red Alert title. Don't get me wrong I loved Red Alert 1 & 2, but it has a very different feel from StarCraft 2.
ya...i think the mineral shield harass thing should be unbreakable for a reasonable amount of time....then maybe...just maybe it will be viable
Either that or each bubble has 100+ hp and the entomb skill is 50 energy with good amounts of AoE.
