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On September 16 2011 04:26 tkRage wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 04:24 xbankx wrote:On September 16 2011 04:20 ReignFayth wrote:On September 16 2011 04:19 tkRage wrote:On September 16 2011 04:18 ReignFayth wrote:On September 16 2011 04:17 tkRage wrote:On September 16 2011 04:16 ReignFayth wrote:On September 16 2011 04:14 tkRage wrote:On September 16 2011 04:12 ReignFayth wrote:On September 16 2011 04:08 ThE_OsToJiY wrote:
I'm not sure whats worse. It will be near impossible to neural collosus micro'd by someone with even a hint of intelligence, and tanks will becomes a pretty damn good counter to festors. Also won't be able to np mothershits at all :| mothership shud NOT be NP wtfffffffffffffff Go play Zerg, and get back to me in three months when you make your way out of Diamond, k? do you know who you're talking to? like seriously... it's just as stupid as idra saying morrow would suck with zerg when he played terran and morrow proved him wrong zerg is not harder to play than protoss, it's just different I know exactly who I'm talking to rofl. You're not special, and in no way an authority on the game. are you sure? wouldn't you assume that someone like kiwikaki would be good at SC2 even before the game came out? What are you even talking about? someone who does very well in previous games tends to do well in another endeavor, you agree with that right? as long as the same effort/time has been put in Fayth you should just ignore them. Protoss is easier to win at low level when players can just go mass stalkers+colossus and win against everything. Most of these people posting here are at low level so they think toss=easy. However at high level, toss require precise attack timing and great micro. As we seen in GSL lately, toss don't really win these days. lol. I thought for a minute how to reply to this and all I could come up with is lol. Protoss is so easy its sad. And I'm high masters zerg. I picked up protoss for the first time and was winning high masters protoss games. It's not hard at all. 'great micro' click f a bunch of times. wow.
You can stop now and get out. It's embarrassing.
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Has the people on the balance team gotten sudden memory loss. NP was this distance at one point(cant remember when, probably beta though) and it did not work. The infestors just turned into expensive shit that did nothing when trying to use NP. Then again it could be my memory failing on me.
Granted the game is different now with strats and what not, most importantly alot more players actually using the ability. But the point that infestors got obliterated due to the distance being retardedly short for what the ability is and does was so obvious. This will probably(I say probably coz I dont think of myself as nostradamus or the greatest theoretical analyzer of this game ever) not work and NP will be so situational that i will go back to a secondary ability with limited success.
I hope this will be the end all of the infestor balancing and it will at last find it's groove, I really do...but I'm not holding my breath.
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On September 16 2011 04:28 tkRage wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 04:27 ReignFayth wrote:On September 16 2011 04:26 tkRage wrote:On September 16 2011 04:24 xbankx wrote:On September 16 2011 04:20 ReignFayth wrote:On September 16 2011 04:19 tkRage wrote:On September 16 2011 04:18 ReignFayth wrote:On September 16 2011 04:17 tkRage wrote:On September 16 2011 04:16 ReignFayth wrote:On September 16 2011 04:14 tkRage wrote:
[quote]
Go play Zerg, and get back to me in three months when you make your way out of Diamond, k? do you know who you're talking to? like seriously... it's just as stupid as idra saying morrow would suck with zerg when he played terran and morrow proved him wrong zerg is not harder to play than protoss, it's just different I know exactly who I'm talking to rofl. You're not special, and in no way an authority on the game. are you sure? wouldn't you assume that someone like kiwikaki would be good at SC2 even before the game came out? What are you even talking about? someone who does very well in previous games tends to do well in another endeavor, you agree with that right? as long as the same effort/time has been put in Fayth you should just ignore them. Protoss is easier to win at low level when players can just go mass stalkers+colossus and win against everything. Most of these people posting here are at low level so they think toss=easy. However at high level, toss require precise attack timing and great micro. As we seen in GSL lately, toss don't really win these days. lol. I thought for a minute how to reply to this and all I could come up with is lol. Protoss is so easy its sad. And I'm high masters zerg. I picked up protoss for the first time and was winning high masters protoss games. It's not hard at all. 'great micro' click f a bunch of times. wow. ok SC2 mechanic is definitely very easy with every race, competing at a high level isn't any easier for protoss than terran or zerg, so please stop embarassing yourself The only one who should be embarrassed is you and your total lack of results. If you think protoss mechanics are as easy as T or Z, you're delusional as wel.
the reason I don't have any results is because I barely play this game, I don't want to put the time required to compete at the highest level
it doesn't change that even inactive, grandmaster on US is very easy to get to
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On September 16 2011 04:25 TolEranceNA wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 04:24 xbankx wrote:On September 16 2011 04:20 ReignFayth wrote:On September 16 2011 04:19 tkRage wrote:On September 16 2011 04:18 ReignFayth wrote:On September 16 2011 04:17 tkRage wrote:On September 16 2011 04:16 ReignFayth wrote:On September 16 2011 04:14 tkRage wrote:On September 16 2011 04:12 ReignFayth wrote:On September 16 2011 04:08 ThE_OsToJiY wrote:
I'm not sure whats worse. It will be near impossible to neural collosus micro'd by someone with even a hint of intelligence, and tanks will becomes a pretty damn good counter to festors. Also won't be able to np mothershits at all :| mothership shud NOT be NP wtfffffffffffffff Go play Zerg, and get back to me in three months when you make your way out of Diamond, k? do you know who you're talking to? like seriously... it's just as stupid as idra saying morrow would suck with zerg when he played terran and morrow proved him wrong zerg is not harder to play than protoss, it's just different I know exactly who I'm talking to rofl. You're not special, and in no way an authority on the game. are you sure? wouldn't you assume that someone like kiwikaki would be good at SC2 even before the game came out? What are you even talking about? someone who does very well in previous games tends to do well in another endeavor, you agree with that right? as long as the same effort/time has been put in Fayth you should just ignore them. Protoss is easier to win at low level when players can just go mass stalkers+colossus and win against everything. Most of these people posting here are at low level so they think toss=easy. However at high level, toss require precise attack timing and great micro. As we seen in GSL lately, toss don't really win these days. I can have a conversation about Toss = Bad player? Or Toss = Bad race for many hours. However, i will not feed you.
No need because obviously protoss players are all terrible. There is a reason why there is only 3 toss that breaks 50% win rate and 1 of them is at like 51% and another pads his winrate with weekly online tourny.
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On September 16 2011 04:28 humbre wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 04:26 TolEranceNA wrote:On September 16 2011 04:25 humbre wrote:
QQ wins again Terran always win even if they dont qq  because they have twice as many talented players as other races
course man
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I feel stupid asking this but to me ghosts and HT seem pretty effective against infestors. One of the worst abusers of the infestors Destiny has to incorporate changes to his style because people metagame him.
Just like terran scanning for hive to see if broodlords are on the way why cant a scan or an observer check for the infestation pit?
Is it really that difficult to deal with infestors if you have ghosts or HT with your army.
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On September 16 2011 04:28 humbre wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 04:26 TolEranceNA wrote:On September 16 2011 04:25 humbre wrote:
QQ wins again Terran always win even if they dont qq because they have twice as many talented players as other races
Takes a lot of talents to copy others 1 base build and execute it.
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ITT: Mediocre pros know more than balance team, good to know.
The balance team has done fine. The fungal nerf really isn't anything, and the neural nerf just makes it so infestors cant neural from 500 miles away and nothing can reach them. you have to have some risk involved when neuraling an important unit. it shouldn't just be "oh free neural ez win gg"
Also the baneling nerf isnt even a nerf.
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Have you guys considered the possibility that neural parasite wasn't intended to take over colossi or siege tanks as well as they do? You're whining that they no longer do what they use to---no shit, that's the entire point of the nerf, it wasn't working in the way that Blizzard intended. Now you can't mass infestors and do anything you want with them and take over all of the high tech units of the protoss army.
They've removed khydarian amulet instead of just making it less energy, removed flux vanes, made reaper speed worthless and are now making blue flame hellions much worse and more of a mech-centric upgrade than a "gonna get this because it's just so amazing the never use hellions again past my initial harass" upgrade---because they did things that broke the game. Now neural parasite is a situational spell, maybe use it against mass thor since it's same range---big deal, there are TONS of upgrades that are barely ever used from observer speed to medivac energy, get over it.
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Maybe this means NP will be used after a lot of units have died of? Like, you start off by sending in your roaches or whatever units you have, along with casting fungal growth from a safe distance. Then once 3/4 of your roaches or whatever are dead, along with 3/5 of your enemy's units, your infestors get closer and NP any collosi or thors remaining. But as I write this I realise this is kind of stupid because you'd want to snipe collosi at the start of battle, not the end. *shrug*
It seems to me like a range-nerfed NP is a risk, the kind of risk you might take on occasion when the situation presents itself, but... being a risk, would you bother to spend resources on the upgrade for it? I'm still thinking that maybe NP should come automatically and FG should be an upgrade, like Malestrom is for high temps. That could possibly even create a strategic choice between deciding to get the energy upgrade first or the FG upgrade first.
Just ideas...
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On September 16 2011 04:30 Hephaistas wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 04:28 humbre wrote:On September 16 2011 04:26 TolEranceNA wrote:On September 16 2011 04:25 humbre wrote:
QQ wins again Terran always win even if they dont qq because they have twice as many talented players as other races course man
This logic is flawless! how come no1 thought about it before?
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blizzard seems just as lost and clueless as ever.
I don't mind that they nerf/buff shit but the ideas behind their changes just show a complete lack of intelligence to approaching this game as an esport. the direction and decision making behind their changes are heading sc2 to a sad place.
oh well d3/dota2 soon. ^_^
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infestor being the 'only decent unit zerg has' means alot of game revolve around them so any nerf is gonna force people to cry.
but no one, NO ONE, can say the infestor was fine as it was. Destiny has shown just how good they can be, practically winning games with them alone. Personally, like alot of people on this forum, i have no idea about how to balance this game. But, unlike alot of people on this forum, im able to admit that. Too many people hate on blizzard when all they are trying to do is fix it. So they've changed their minds a few times, so what? thats good if you ask me. Means they know when they've made mistakes and arent afraid to go back on themselves.
This game is only a year old, there are gonna be alot of changes made and reverted and brought back and whatever and theres also gonna be alot of changes that people wont agree with or understand. Just get on with it and see what happens.
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On September 16 2011 04:28 humbre wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 04:26 TolEranceNA wrote:On September 16 2011 04:25 humbre wrote:
QQ wins again Terran always win even if they dont qq because they have twice as many talented players as other races
Because they have the most cost efficient units. Because they don't have to react to game situations aside from defending attacks. Because their mechanics don't require thoughts. They go through the motions of their mechanics and that typically wins their games. Show me a Terran player making a conscious, spur of the moment making a decision.
Protoss is the same way. there's no choices made. You choose a build, you execute it, and you play standard shit from there and you have a solid win rate. The only way to lose is to make drastic mistakes.
Zerg makes conscious, game breaking decisions from minute 1 of every single game. Every drone you make is a risk. Show me protoss or terran risks? Every expo you take is a possible loss to a mechanical, robotic timing.
Zerg has zero cost or supply effective units; lings are the closest, but with the massive amounts of splash damage (tanks hellions colossus ht) available at every stage of the game, lings become cost inefficient in any sort of straight up engagement. Roaches are supply inefficient and maxed roach-based army compositions are 100% inefficient. Hydras are a joke. Ultras are a joke. Broodlords are not time/cost efficient. Infestors are the closest thing we have to late game cost efficiency and that's being cut into oblivion here.
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the skepticism around the range nerf is maybe because the things you are NPing have longer range than NP. the point is though, NP only has to get off "1 hit" to be effective while the other units have to get off several. so yes, they will get that first hit on you, but if you land yours, thats still a won engagement. what ostojiy said about microing away though is true only for colossus. thors will not be able to micro away from NP really, and to be honest collosus have been microing away anyways regardless of NP.
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On September 16 2011 04:26 tkRage wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 04:24 xbankx wrote:On September 16 2011 04:20 ReignFayth wrote:On September 16 2011 04:19 tkRage wrote:On September 16 2011 04:18 ReignFayth wrote:On September 16 2011 04:17 tkRage wrote:On September 16 2011 04:16 ReignFayth wrote:On September 16 2011 04:14 tkRage wrote:On September 16 2011 04:12 ReignFayth wrote:On September 16 2011 04:08 ThE_OsToJiY wrote:
I'm not sure whats worse. It will be near impossible to neural collosus micro'd by someone with even a hint of intelligence, and tanks will becomes a pretty damn good counter to festors. Also won't be able to np mothershits at all :| mothership shud NOT be NP wtfffffffffffffff Go play Zerg, and get back to me in three months when you make your way out of Diamond, k? do you know who you're talking to? like seriously... it's just as stupid as idra saying morrow would suck with zerg when he played terran and morrow proved him wrong zerg is not harder to play than protoss, it's just different I know exactly who I'm talking to rofl. You're not special, and in no way an authority on the game. are you sure? wouldn't you assume that someone like kiwikaki would be good at SC2 even before the game came out? What are you even talking about? someone who does very well in previous games tends to do well in another endeavor, you agree with that right? as long as the same effort/time has been put in Fayth you should just ignore them. Protoss is easier to win at low level when players can just go mass stalkers+colossus and win against everything. Most of these people posting here are at low level so they think toss=easy. However at high level, toss require precise attack timing and great micro. As we seen in GSL lately, toss don't really win these days. lol. I thought for a minute how to reply to this and all I could come up with is lol. Protoss is so easy its sad. And I'm high masters zerg. I picked up protoss for the first time and was winning high masters protoss games. It's not hard at all. 'great micro' click f a bunch of times. wow.
You're embarrassing yourself. I find you very embarrassing.
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
The fact that they even considered making massive units immune to NP worries me a little. You really have to wonder about who is thinking up with these balance changes.
The range nerf is fine though 9 to 7 might be a little too much of nerf. 7.5/8 should still give zergs enough incentive to position & engage more carefully without making the spell extremely hard to pull off.
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On September 16 2011 04:25 humbre wrote:
QQ wins again
shut up.
I dont like blizzard to change things so quickly at all, zerg has been dominating a couple of months now at most in ZvP and toss should get some more months to figue things out.
What I dont like about those changes is that they make game just more boring in general. In a year from not the game might be perfectly balanced, but in such a boring way where there are no exciting maneuvers left at all. "oh there are 2 blueflame hellions in the base, if the zerg doesnt react in the next 30 seconds he might have a slightly damaged eco line left" or "oh noes some unit got NPd, if he doesnt targetfire the infestor with literally any ranged unit at all this might cost him the game"
Lets have some game breaking units left in this please , or am I the only one noticing that if something is overpowered in a matchup, they just nerf it instead of finding fun solutions that could make the other races respond better to what is felt like imbalance at the time . It may be harder but it could keep the game fun from a spectator perspective , instead of just balanced.
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On September 16 2011 04:30 HydraLF wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 04:28 humbre wrote:On September 16 2011 04:26 TolEranceNA wrote:On September 16 2011 04:25 humbre wrote:
QQ wins again Terran always win even if they dont qq because they have twice as many talented players as other races Takes a lot of talents to copy others 1 base build and execute it.
Pretty sure he was talking about Terran, not Protoss.
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On September 16 2011 04:32 tkRage wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 04:28 humbre wrote:On September 16 2011 04:26 TolEranceNA wrote:On September 16 2011 04:25 humbre wrote:
QQ wins again Terran always win even if they dont qq because they have twice as many talented players as other races Because they have the most cost efficient units. Because they don't have to react to game situations aside from defending attacks. Because their mechanics don't require thoughts. They go through the motions of their mechanics and that typically wins their games. Show me a Terran player making a conscious, spur of the moment making a decision. Protoss is the same way. there's no choices made. You choose a build, you execute it, and you play standard shit from there and you have a solid win rate. The only way to lose is to make drastic mistakes. Zerg makes conscious, game breaking decisions from minute 1 of every single game. Every drone you make is a risk. Show me protoss or terran risks? Every expo you take is a possible loss to a mechanical, robotic timing. Zerg has zero cost or supply effective units; lings are the closest, but with the massive amounts of splash damage (tanks hellions colossus ht) available at every stage of the game, lings become cost inefficient in any sort of straight up engagement. Roaches are supply inefficient and maxed roach-based army compositions are 100% inefficient. Hydras are a joke. Ultras are a joke. Broodlords are not time/cost efficient. Infestors are the closest thing we have to late game cost efficiency and that's being cut into oblivion here.
Get off your high horse, theres nothing but biased opinions in this wall of text.
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EPT
