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On September 16 2011 04:32 ThatGuy89 wrote:
infestor being the 'only decent unit zerg has' means alot of game revolve around them so any nerf is gonna force people to cry.
but no one, NO ONE, can say the infestor was fine as it was. Destiny has shown just how good they can be, practically winning games with them alone. Personally, like alot of people on this forum, i have no idea about how to balance this game. But, unlike alot of people on this forum, im able to admit that. Too many people hate on blizzard when all they are trying to do is fix it. So they've changed their minds a few times, so what? thats good if you ask me. Means they know when they've made mistakes and arent afraid to go back on themselves.
This game is only a year old, there are gonna be alot of changes made and reverted and brought back and whatever and theres also gonna be alot of changes that people wont agree with or understand. Just get on with it and see what happens.
The funny part is that all zerg units are decent to great (except maybe hydra, which is still great situationally), but if you listen to some people all zerg units apparently die the second anything touches them and deal about 2 damage.
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i think this is a good change because i dont think it will effect infestor use in zvt but it will make protoss a little more able to deal with zerg which seems to be a problem right now 0.0
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On September 16 2011 04:31 Heavenly wrote:
Have you guys considered the possibility that neural parasite wasn't intended to take over colossi or siege tanks as well as they do? You're whining that they no longer do what they use to---no shit, that's the entire point of the nerf, it wasn't working in the way that Blizzard intended. Now you can't mass infestors and do anything you want with them and take over all of the high tech units of the protoss army.
They've removed khydarian amulet instead of just making it less energy, removed flux vanes, made reaper speed worthless and are now making blue flame hellions much worse and more of a mech-centric upgrade than a "gonna get this because it's just so amazing the never use hellions again past my initial harass" upgrade---because they did things that broke the game. Now neural parasite is a situational spell, maybe use it against mass thor since it's same range---big deal, there are TONS of upgrades that are barely ever used from observer speed to medivac energy, get over it.
Loading screen for the game: Use neural parasite on *adjective* units like Colossus and Tanks.
Straight from the fucking loading screen.
BLIZZARD'S loading screen.
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On September 16 2011 04:34 HydraLF wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 04:32 tkRage wrote:On September 16 2011 04:28 humbre wrote:On September 16 2011 04:26 TolEranceNA wrote:On September 16 2011 04:25 humbre wrote:
QQ wins again Terran always win even if they dont qq  because they have twice as many talented players as other races Because they have the most cost efficient units. Because they don't have to react to game situations aside from defending attacks. Because their mechanics don't require thoughts. They go through the motions of their mechanics and that typically wins their games. Show me a Terran player making a conscious, spur of the moment making a decision. Protoss is the same way. there's no choices made. You choose a build, you execute it, and you play standard shit from there and you have a solid win rate. The only way to lose is to make drastic mistakes. Zerg makes conscious, game breaking decisions from minute 1 of every single game. Every drone you make is a risk. Show me protoss or terran risks? Every expo you take is a possible loss to a mechanical, robotic timing. Zerg has zero cost or supply effective units; lings are the closest, but with the massive amounts of splash damage (tanks hellions colossus ht) available at every stage of the game, lings become cost inefficient in any sort of straight up engagement. Roaches are supply inefficient and maxed roach-based army compositions are 100% inefficient. Hydras are a joke. Ultras are a joke. Broodlords are not time/cost efficient. Infestors are the closest thing we have to late game cost efficiency and that's being cut into oblivion here. Get off your high horse, theres nothing but biased opinions in this wall of text.
Rofl prove me wrong thanks
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Decent change. Would've preferred fungal slowing units than rooting them in place though.
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On September 16 2011 04:30 ReignFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 04:28 tkRage wrote:On September 16 2011 04:27 ReignFayth wrote:On September 16 2011 04:26 tkRage wrote:On September 16 2011 04:24 xbankx wrote:On September 16 2011 04:20 ReignFayth wrote:On September 16 2011 04:19 tkRage wrote:On September 16 2011 04:18 ReignFayth wrote:On September 16 2011 04:17 tkRage wrote:On September 16 2011 04:16 ReignFayth wrote:
[quote]
do you know who you're talking to?
like seriously...
it's just as stupid as idra saying morrow would suck with zerg when he played terran and morrow proved him wrong
zerg is not harder to play than protoss, it's just different I know exactly who I'm talking to rofl. You're not special, and in no way an authority on the game. are you sure? wouldn't you assume that someone like kiwikaki would be good at SC2 even before the game came out? What are you even talking about? someone who does very well in previous games tends to do well in another endeavor, you agree with that right? as long as the same effort/time has been put in Fayth you should just ignore them. Protoss is easier to win at low level when players can just go mass stalkers+colossus and win against everything. Most of these people posting here are at low level so they think toss=easy. However at high level, toss require precise attack timing and great micro. As we seen in GSL lately, toss don't really win these days. lol. I thought for a minute how to reply to this and all I could come up with is lol. Protoss is so easy its sad. And I'm high masters zerg. I picked up protoss for the first time and was winning high masters protoss games. It's not hard at all. 'great micro' click f a bunch of times. wow. ok SC2 mechanic is definitely very easy with every race, competing at a high level isn't any easier for protoss than terran or zerg, so please stop embarassing yourself The only one who should be embarrassed is you and your total lack of results. If you think protoss mechanics are as easy as T or Z, you're delusional as wel. the reason I don't have any results is because I barely play this game, I don't want to put the time required to compete at the highest level it doesn't change that even inactive, grandmaster on US is very easy to get to
can you (and rage) please stop your little argument. it destroys the thread and helps nobody. both of you made your points, so leave it there. None of you guys is that important that he has to speak the last word.
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On September 16 2011 04:34 tkRage wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 04:31 Heavenly wrote:
Have you guys considered the possibility that neural parasite wasn't intended to take over colossi or siege tanks as well as they do? You're whining that they no longer do what they use to---no shit, that's the entire point of the nerf, it wasn't working in the way that Blizzard intended. Now you can't mass infestors and do anything you want with them and take over all of the high tech units of the protoss army.
They've removed khydarian amulet instead of just making it less energy, removed flux vanes, made reaper speed worthless and are now making blue flame hellions much worse and more of a mech-centric upgrade than a "gonna get this because it's just so amazing the never use hellions again past my initial harass" upgrade---because they did things that broke the game. Now neural parasite is a situational spell, maybe use it against mass thor since it's same range---big deal, there are TONS of upgrades that are barely ever used from observer speed to medivac energy, get over it. Loading screen for the game: Use neural parasite on *adjective* units like Colossus and Tanks. Straight from the fucking loading screen. BLIZZARD'S loading screen.
Notice I said "as well as they do"? Quit whining because your 100/150 2 supply unit can no longer temporarily mind control 300/200 6 supply units as easily.
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On September 16 2011 04:32 tkRage wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 04:28 humbre wrote:On September 16 2011 04:26 TolEranceNA wrote:On September 16 2011 04:25 humbre wrote:
QQ wins again Terran always win even if they dont qq because they have twice as many talented players as other races Because they have the most cost efficient units. Because they don't have to react to game situations aside from defending attacks. Because their mechanics don't require thoughts. They go through the motions of their mechanics and that typically wins their games. Show me a Terran player making a conscious, spur of the moment making a decision. Protoss is the same way. there's no choices made. You choose a build, you execute it, and you play standard shit from there and you have a solid win rate. The only way to lose is to make drastic mistakes. Zerg makes conscious, game breaking decisions from minute 1 of every single game. Every drone you make is a risk. Show me protoss or terran risks? Every expo you take is a possible loss to a mechanical, robotic timing. Zerg has zero cost or supply effective units; lings are the closest, but with the massive amounts of splash damage (tanks hellions colossus ht) available at every stage of the game, lings become cost inefficient in any sort of straight up engagement. Roaches are supply inefficient and maxed roach-based army compositions are 100% inefficient. Hydras are a joke. Ultras are a joke. Broodlords are not time/cost efficient. Infestors are the closest thing we have to late game cost efficiency and that's being cut into oblivion here.
I can't believe you dared tell me I had no fucking idea what I was talking about when you're that delusional, go get counceling or something, the problem now isn't SC2's balance, it clearly is you
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I dislike when things like this happen (they reverted change from Beta pretty much) but oh well, not going to miss NP that much 
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On September 16 2011 04:35 tkRage wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 04:34 HydraLF wrote:On September 16 2011 04:32 tkRage wrote:On September 16 2011 04:28 humbre wrote:On September 16 2011 04:26 TolEranceNA wrote:On September 16 2011 04:25 humbre wrote:
QQ wins again Terran always win even if they dont qq because they have twice as many talented players as other races Because they have the most cost efficient units. Because they don't have to react to game situations aside from defending attacks. Because their mechanics don't require thoughts. They go through the motions of their mechanics and that typically wins their games. Show me a Terran player making a conscious, spur of the moment making a decision. Protoss is the same way. there's no choices made. You choose a build, you execute it, and you play standard shit from there and you have a solid win rate. The only way to lose is to make drastic mistakes. Zerg makes conscious, game breaking decisions from minute 1 of every single game. Every drone you make is a risk. Show me protoss or terran risks? Every expo you take is a possible loss to a mechanical, robotic timing. Zerg has zero cost or supply effective units; lings are the closest, but with the massive amounts of splash damage (tanks hellions colossus ht) available at every stage of the game, lings become cost inefficient in any sort of straight up engagement. Roaches are supply inefficient and maxed roach-based army compositions are 100% inefficient. Hydras are a joke. Ultras are a joke. Broodlords are not time/cost efficient. Infestors are the closest thing we have to late game cost efficiency and that's being cut into oblivion here. Get off your high horse, theres nothing but biased opinions in this wall of text. Rofl prove me wrong thanks
Show me a effective opening for pvz which doesn't put them miles behind and safe to all ins?
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With great powers (NP), comes great risk.
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On September 16 2011 04:36 ReignFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 04:32 tkRage wrote:On September 16 2011 04:28 humbre wrote:On September 16 2011 04:26 TolEranceNA wrote:On September 16 2011 04:25 humbre wrote:
QQ wins again Terran always win even if they dont qq because they have twice as many talented players as other races Because they have the most cost efficient units. Because they don't have to react to game situations aside from defending attacks. Because their mechanics don't require thoughts. They go through the motions of their mechanics and that typically wins their games. Show me a Terran player making a conscious, spur of the moment making a decision. Protoss is the same way. there's no choices made. You choose a build, you execute it, and you play standard shit from there and you have a solid win rate. The only way to lose is to make drastic mistakes. Zerg makes conscious, game breaking decisions from minute 1 of every single game. Every drone you make is a risk. Show me protoss or terran risks? Every expo you take is a possible loss to a mechanical, robotic timing. Zerg has zero cost or supply effective units; lings are the closest, but with the massive amounts of splash damage (tanks hellions colossus ht) available at every stage of the game, lings become cost inefficient in any sort of straight up engagement. Roaches are supply inefficient and maxed roach-based army compositions are 100% inefficient. Hydras are a joke. Ultras are a joke. Broodlords are not time/cost efficient. Infestors are the closest thing we have to late game cost efficiency and that's being cut into oblivion here. I can't believe you dared tell me I had no fucking idea what I was talking about when you're that delusional, go get counceling or something, the problem now isn't SC2's balance, it clearly is you
What an incredibly clear, intellectual, well-stated argument.
I'm so glad you gave us that insight.
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On September 16 2011 04:36 HydraLF wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 04:35 tkRage wrote:On September 16 2011 04:34 HydraLF wrote:On September 16 2011 04:32 tkRage wrote:On September 16 2011 04:28 humbre wrote:On September 16 2011 04:26 TolEranceNA wrote:On September 16 2011 04:25 humbre wrote:
QQ wins again Terran always win even if they dont qq because they have twice as many talented players as other races Because they have the most cost efficient units. Because they don't have to react to game situations aside from defending attacks. Because their mechanics don't require thoughts. They go through the motions of their mechanics and that typically wins their games. Show me a Terran player making a conscious, spur of the moment making a decision. Protoss is the same way. there's no choices made. You choose a build, you execute it, and you play standard shit from there and you have a solid win rate. The only way to lose is to make drastic mistakes. Zerg makes conscious, game breaking decisions from minute 1 of every single game. Every drone you make is a risk. Show me protoss or terran risks? Every expo you take is a possible loss to a mechanical, robotic timing. Zerg has zero cost or supply effective units; lings are the closest, but with the massive amounts of splash damage (tanks hellions colossus ht) available at every stage of the game, lings become cost inefficient in any sort of straight up engagement. Roaches are supply inefficient and maxed roach-based army compositions are 100% inefficient. Hydras are a joke. Ultras are a joke. Broodlords are not time/cost efficient. Infestors are the closest thing we have to late game cost efficiency and that's being cut into oblivion here. Get off your high horse, theres nothing but biased opinions in this wall of text. Rofl prove me wrong thanks Show me a effective opening for pvz which doesn't put them miles behind and safe to all ins?
Show me the same thing for Zerg?
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On September 16 2011 04:34 Heavenly wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 04:32 ThatGuy89 wrote:
infestor being the 'only decent unit zerg has' means alot of game revolve around them so any nerf is gonna force people to cry.
but no one, NO ONE, can say the infestor was fine as it was. Destiny has shown just how good they can be, practically winning games with them alone. Personally, like alot of people on this forum, i have no idea about how to balance this game. But, unlike alot of people on this forum, im able to admit that. Too many people hate on blizzard when all they are trying to do is fix it. So they've changed their minds a few times, so what? thats good if you ask me. Means they know when they've made mistakes and arent afraid to go back on themselves.
This game is only a year old, there are gonna be alot of changes made and reverted and brought back and whatever and theres also gonna be alot of changes that people wont agree with or understand. Just get on with it and see what happens. The funny part is that all zerg units are decent to great (except maybe hydra, which is still great situationally), but if you listen to some people all zerg units apparently die the second anything touches them and deal about 2 damage.
Hydra is great situationally........ Sir what are you smoking man? You can definitely argue about other unit, but hydra is just terrible
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On September 16 2011 04:35 zul wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 04:30 ReignFayth wrote:On September 16 2011 04:28 tkRage wrote:On September 16 2011 04:27 ReignFayth wrote:On September 16 2011 04:26 tkRage wrote:On September 16 2011 04:24 xbankx wrote:On September 16 2011 04:20 ReignFayth wrote:On September 16 2011 04:19 tkRage wrote:On September 16 2011 04:18 ReignFayth wrote:On September 16 2011 04:17 tkRage wrote:
[quote]
I know exactly who I'm talking to rofl. You're not special, and in no way an authority on the game. are you sure? wouldn't you assume that someone like kiwikaki would be good at SC2 even before the game came out? What are you even talking about? someone who does very well in previous games tends to do well in another endeavor, you agree with that right? as long as the same effort/time has been put in Fayth you should just ignore them. Protoss is easier to win at low level when players can just go mass stalkers+colossus and win against everything. Most of these people posting here are at low level so they think toss=easy. However at high level, toss require precise attack timing and great micro. As we seen in GSL lately, toss don't really win these days. lol. I thought for a minute how to reply to this and all I could come up with is lol. Protoss is so easy its sad. And I'm high masters zerg. I picked up protoss for the first time and was winning high masters protoss games. It's not hard at all. 'great micro' click f a bunch of times. wow. ok SC2 mechanic is definitely very easy with every race, competing at a high level isn't any easier for protoss than terran or zerg, so please stop embarassing yourself The only one who should be embarrassed is you and your total lack of results. If you think protoss mechanics are as easy as T or Z, you're delusional as wel. the reason I don't have any results is because I barely play this game, I don't want to put the time required to compete at the highest level it doesn't change that even inactive, grandmaster on US is very easy to get to can you (and rage) please stop your little argument. it destroys the thread and helps nobody. both of you made your points, so leave it there. None of you guys is that important that he has to speak the last word.
sure.. I mean I was posting about balance to begin with, I just got attacked personally and I replied
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On September 16 2011 04:21 ReignFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 04:18 tkRage wrote:On September 16 2011 04:18 slam wrote:
lol @ people trying to bash Fayth. lol @ Fayth trying to bash people, like somehow he's got game knowledge? If you claim that neural parasite needs a nerf, then you clearly don't understand this game AT ALL. neural parasite by itself might not need a nerf, but infestor needed one, it was too good overall, they could give a fucking dark archon to zerg with neural if anything with 9 range and I wouldn't mind
Come on, now. You're on the same team as KewiKaki, and I see him roll superb infestor usage a lot with good late game management. You know they're perfectly deal-able. Sure, it makes mid game a bit hard, but no harder than a zerg dealing with protoss *edit* endgame, right? I mean, you have to admit there comes a point in the game where zerg can no longer win when you have your HT colossus blink stalker and maybe mothership army up (and god help the zerg if you made like 8 phoenix to lift his infestors), right (or at least hard as shit to the point where pretty much no one can figure it out)? So shouldn't it in turn be REALLY hard to get to that "I can no longer lose state?"
I know it's horrible design, game wise, and by itself infestor would be way too powerful, but zerg units are pretty bad compared to protoss units late game, so you need the infestor to be that strong. I really don't like the logic that you need to kill a protoss before he gets this super army state the game is in, but it is. And now it's just easier to get there. Do you think that's a good thing for the balance of the game?
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On September 16 2011 04:33 Telcontar wrote:
The fact that they even considered making massive units immune to NP worries me a little. You really have to wonder about who is thinking up with these balance changes.
The range nerf is fine though 9 to 7 might be a little too much of nerf. 7.5/8 should still give zergs enough incentive to position & engage more carefully without making the spell extremely hard to pull off.
Isnt David Kim the lead balance person?
Im glad they changed back to massive otherwise the game would probably be pretty hard for zerg late game.
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I liked the old infestor they should revert it back.
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ITT: People qqing about their race and not being smart enough to make it better.
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On September 16 2011 04:37 TolEranceNA wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 04:34 Heavenly wrote:On September 16 2011 04:32 ThatGuy89 wrote:
infestor being the 'only decent unit zerg has' means alot of game revolve around them so any nerf is gonna force people to cry.
but no one, NO ONE, can say the infestor was fine as it was. Destiny has shown just how good they can be, practically winning games with them alone. Personally, like alot of people on this forum, i have no idea about how to balance this game. But, unlike alot of people on this forum, im able to admit that. Too many people hate on blizzard when all they are trying to do is fix it. So they've changed their minds a few times, so what? thats good if you ask me. Means they know when they've made mistakes and arent afraid to go back on themselves.
This game is only a year old, there are gonna be alot of changes made and reverted and brought back and whatever and theres also gonna be alot of changes that people wont agree with or understand. Just get on with it and see what happens. The funny part is that all zerg units are decent to great (except maybe hydra, which is still great situationally), but if you listen to some people all zerg units apparently die the second anything touches them and deal about 2 damage. Hydra is great situationally........ Sir what are you smoking man? You can definitely argue about other unit, but hydra is just terrible
Against double stargate play coupled with infestors and as a two hatch nydus hydra bust on Tal'darim after a protoss goes FFE into stargate, or in certain low econ ZvP where resources are tight and colossi tech is too risky to tech to, since hydras cost less than stalkers. What are you smoking? Sorry that not every unit for your race can be massed in all situations?
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EPT
