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On September 08 2011 06:02 lizzard_warish wrote:
I can put my finger on why GSL is getting boring, and so can most people from what I've seen; watching thirty tvt's in a row is fucking gay.
User was warned for this post
lizzard_warish may have been warned for his post, but I hold the same opinion. Speaking only for myself, I just can't stand to watch this many TvTs.
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On September 08 2011 06:10 EtherealDeath wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2011 06:09 FabledIntegral wrote:
I find MLG significantly more entertaining, there's almost always a game going on, less TvT, and I don't have to stay up til 2AM to watch it, but rather can do so midday. Watching things live makes things a million times better, which is the main reason why I don't watch IPL at all (haven't watched a single game). It's another reason I'm sort of turned off from the NASL. Wait what, IPL and NASL are not that late for me, and I'm on the east coast, which is about as terrible as it gets timing-wise for US viewers.
Oh, if I wasn't clear, I meant neither IPL nor NASL are live, and I don't get to watch GSL live because of time zones. MLG is the only one I can watch live.
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Its been said before, there's simply to much TvT.
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GSL seems really similar to OSL/MSL in its format on first glance, but has a few things that make it feel not quite right. I think two of the main reasons are: GSL happening way more often than OSL/MSL does, so it kind of dilutes the whole experience, and GSL never having an actual crowd area (besides finals) for the camera to pan over with people.. the crowd is much different at OSL/MSL games than it is at GSL.
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Drop the convoluted Code A/S system, it keeps the competition stale. Sure SC2 might be a bit too volatile, but that's a good thing for GSL at this point. I assume they were worried about building the stories behind players, but it simply isn't needed anymore. People know their favorites and underdogs, especially thanks to Artosis. Adopt either OSL or MSL system, so only top16 get seeded into the next season and give more space to the qualifiers, thus making each "season" run longer and generate more hype for the finals.
TSL is probably the closest to my ideal tournament, if somebody wasn't there, they weren't good enough and you could see that people were preparing for the matches. HuK's recent GSL games looked like they just caught him laddering.
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gsl is getting boring cos of whats at stake.With so much money and prestige to be won, people arent willing to try anything new or different they just wanna do what they know works in order to win.
its true, its so boring. And it doesnt seem to be helpful much either, and im only diamond. Plus i think they need to rotate the casters, tastosis are just really boring and predictable
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Am I the only one who just doesn't think it's getting boring? It has far better play than any other tournament out there, awesome casting, and is (for me at least) by far the most entertaining thing to watch.
I can imagine some tournament format tweaks helping a little, and a bigger studio/crowd would add some good atmosphere... but I really think it's already great.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On September 08 2011 06:20 Karliath wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2011 06:02 lizzard_warish wrote:
I can put my finger on why GSL is getting boring, and so can most people from what I've seen; watching thirty tvt's in a row is fucking gay.
User was warned for this post lizzard_warish may have been warned for his post, but I hold the same opinion. Speaking only for myself, I just can't stand to watch this many TvTs.
Although the TvTs may be tiresome, there is an elite cadre of high-level protoss and zerg players in GSL who regularly make it to the Ro8 and often to the Ro4 and finals-- I find TvTs are most common in group play. This is the first TvT finals in some time, and if MVP hadn't been against NesTea so early, it would probably be TvZ finals.
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A lot of the problems I think with GSL code S is Goms structure for group selection is flawed, yes it's fun to watch player chose groups / taunt each other but every single season you get 1 half the bracket completely stacked and the other having 1 or 2 clear winners.
Randomize the groups and I think the overall tournament would improve.
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On September 08 2011 06:17 susySquark wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2011 06:09 ShootingStars wrote:
The format is way too unstable... TvT is boring... my favorite players can't last more than 5 consecutive seasons haha I disagree - the fact that so many terrans are in code S actually shows that the system is quite stable, providing the most consistent players with rewards of code S. Nada has never left code S. MVP dropping down was a fluke quickly rectified. I think Clide has also never left code S. Nestea? Obviously never left. These guys may not all be stellar players, but they are damned good and consistent, and the system has rewarded them for it.
The thing is that the best system hasnt to be the most entertaining one.
As you can see, Code S is pretty stacked with Terrans. I wont argue on why there are consistently in Code S or not.
The format of GSL may pay off, the "best"(maybe not best, but most consistant) players stay in Code S, but if these players are mostly Terrans and Zergs, it gets boring after a month or two.
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As a zerg player, I have to agree with op. But it is more about Zerg players got destroyed in GSL and no hope can be seen. And I can feel it could be worse for Protoss players, especially when MC got demoted to code A today.
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On September 08 2011 06:02 lizzard_warish wrote:
I can put my finger on why GSL is getting boring, and so can most people from what I've seen; watching thirty tvt's in a row is fucking gay.
User was warned for this post
Just clearing things up that this poster probably only got warned due to his extreme language and use of "F" and "G" words. other than that, everyone is entitled to their opinion, and he has his, and thats why he wasnt banned he was just warned.
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i don't understand all the hate for TvT
it's the only matchup at the moment that plays like a proper starcraft match, although TvZ is getting close
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Are there some stats on these? MLG is obviously at a reasonable time and is probably more exciting than the first couple rounds of Code S since it starts and finishes a huge tournament with hundreds of games within 3 days. I'm not really sure how you can compare the two as they are quite different, I personally still love the Code S matches although even a terran such as myself would like to see other matchups more  . Also free VoDs! I don't get to watch as much GSL as I would like to.
tl,dr; MLG is condensed intense action with hundreds of excited fans and 4 awesome casters, GSL is spread out action with a quiet studio and 2 awesome casters, but I love them both! :D
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I agree with the warned guy. It's the damn TvT's personally I just can't get excited unless it's like Boxer vs MKP or something sick. Everytime I see TvT I just minimize, mute and put some good Kpop on.
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On September 08 2011 06:17 MK4512 wrote:
EVENTUALLY, Code S will weed out every weak player, and it will become the true pinacle of competition... Just wait for a bit.
I agree that the current code S system will work perfectly.... over time... possibly a long time....
But i also think the game and peoples skill and whats possible today is a highly volatile aspect of starcraft 2 as an esport.
Any tournament that has more of a "its any mans game, any dog can have his day" element such as seeding players from an open bracket, will allow more of this volatility to flow through into its tournament.
And i guess at the end of the day its just my opinion as to how good it is to be letting this volatility flow. Some people may think its less entertaining to let the volatility into the tournament. I feel it is more entertaining.
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On September 08 2011 06:25 Zanno wrote:
i don't understand all the hate for TvT
it's the only matchup at the moment that plays like a proper starcraft match, although TvZ is getting close
Nope, Zerg and Protoss players want to watch their match ups and see their champions win.
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On September 08 2011 06:20 plated.rawr wrote:
Coming from a fan of the BW proscene since 2006 or so...
I haven't really watched SC2GSL much, so I cannot say what I don't like about it specifically. I can say that no-name koreans playing each other isn't very attractive to me though, no matter what level of skill they bring.
For MLG on the other hand, I usually sit up all play hours, till around 8am local time. Two pretty central reasons to this, I think, are the players and the audience.
The players at MLG aren't just anonymous korean mechanic monsters - there's so many experienced players who's been with the international Starcraft scene for so long, with a massive history, both good and bad, behind them. The players feels a lot more alive, and while their gameplay is excellent, it's not perfect, and it is thus a lot easier to cheer for and empathise with them. They represent the geek dream we all sometimes sit with - "Hey, that guy could be me, dude!".
The audience is what interested me with BW originally. I think I saw a Blizzcon 2006 between Savior and... someone. At the time, my only real experience with BW was my own casual playing over the years, so I was pretty flabbergasted by the crowd enthusiasm and caster hyping. Together, they created a really special ambience that I've since seen in big korean and foreign BW events.
So yea, that's about it. Personality and ambience is what I like MLG and other foreign big events for.
This common misconception that Koreans don't have personalities and are simply mechanical monsters is a little bit irritating.
They have personalities. You'd be able to tell if you spent any time at all watching/reading interviews and/or keeping up with Milkis's Twitter (or even the Twitters of the players involved). Unfortunately, it seems that very few people do this and then go on to talk about how Koreans are just machines practicing 12 hours a day.
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On September 08 2011 06:24 roymarthyup wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2011 06:02 lizzard_warish wrote:
I can put my finger on why GSL is getting boring, and so can most people from what I've seen; watching thirty tvt's in a row is fucking gay.
User was warned for this post Just clearing things up that this poster probably only got warned due to his extreme language and use of "F" and "G" words. other than that, everyone is entitled to their opinion, and he has his, and thats why he wasnt banned he was just warned.
Mods use worse language than that
He was just made an example of not to start "terran op" speak
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On September 08 2011 06:23 TheButtonmen wrote:
A lot of the problems I think with GSL code S is Goms structure for group selection is flawed, yes it's fun to watch player chose groups / taunt each other but every single season you get 1 half the bracket completely stacked and the other having 1 or 2 clear winners.
Randomize the groups and I think the overall tournament would improve.
Or even seed the groups based on previous player performance, guaranteeing high-quality games as the tournament progresses, and having some more closely-matched finals games. This would definitely do more to shake things up than bringing in people through an alternative qualification scheme.
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EPT
