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On September 08 2011 06:30 EcstatiC wrote:
GSL is too abusive.
when you give them most creative and inventive players a full week to prepare for their matches, the builds they develop simply become too abusive of either the racial imbalances or their opponents weaknesses, so although it does produce high level games, a lot of the games in Code S, because the players want to win so much and have so much time to prepare, theyre not willing to risk playing entertaining games and produce entertaining SC2, rather they would just have a build order win that doesnt do anything for the crowd.
on the other hand, when players have to play 20 games against all different races, all within a weekend, they have no time to prepare for each match, then they start playing for standard openings, and produce longer, more entertaining games, since they just dont have the time to analyse an opponents playstyle and develop a build to counter. so to have abusive builds, they have to be developed and played essentially blind, which is a huge risk, and so you get players willing to rely more on playing standard games, and let their overall skill, whether it be micro and game or decision making take over, and thats where entertaining SC2 is produced.
You know, your argument essentially implies that SC2 is a bad game. :/ If the highest level of preparation and creativity results in crappy games, then that means that the game itself isn't a good esport.
Similarly, for me it's mostly the fact that most games in the GSL are just bad. After you get over all the 1 base all-ins, proxy raxes and bunker rushes, you get really one-sided macro games, way too much TvT, and after enduring all of that, you can perhaps watch an entertaining match. This was my experience with the last two GSLs.
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Its hard to compare the two. MLG is a compact event where you get all the action in 3 days of nonstop starcraft with enormous wait time between games that gives the illusion each is special or something.
You are more aware of who you are watching because you've heard of him somewhere else.
GSL on the contrary is a month long tournament with increasing wait time as long as it progresses full of players that you might not know or care about but with overall higher skill.
The obvious race disproportion in gsl doesn't help either and since the broadcasts cover every single game you can't artificially alter the matches spectators get to see.
Apples and oranges.
GSL could improve drastically by actually doing interviews that don't answer every question with "I'll win with a crushing victory" or "I'll practice harder to show my fans appreciation". Its like they have an attorney sitting right next to them whispering what to say to avoid a lawsuit.
In short. If GSL wants more viewers they need to make these code S (which sounds so S-pecial) yet mean so little to foreigners... known and have some sort of defining characteristic.
A simple "tank yu to al my fans" would give them more popularity than getting to ro16 id bet.
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Too much games and super high frequency of them.
GOM needs to gave a break or show less games.
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On September 08 2011 06:35 tabbott26 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2011 06:08 latan wrote:
I can put my finger on it, it's because I can't stay up that late to watch live games. Welcome to the world of EU, who have to stay up stupidly late to watch your MLGs.
Dreamhack, IEM, Assembly, etc.
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I prefer MLG because of the schedule.
I tried to watch GSL but it's far too late in the night for me (in North America) to watch during the week. Also I only have a moderate amount of time to watch games so it's far easier to watch during the weekend once in a while than the millions of GSL games (I don't really know but there seems to be so many of them...).
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Blazinghand
United States25562 Posts
On September 08 2011 06:37 Sandro wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2011 06:35 tabbott26 wrote:On September 08 2011 06:08 latan wrote:
I can put my finger on it, it's because I can't stay up that late to watch live games. Welcome to the world of EU, who have to stay up stupidly late to watch your MLGs. Dreamhack, IEM, Assembly, etc.
I think we can all agree that, in a scene of worldwide tournaments, we all have to make some sleep-schedule sacrifices to watch tournaments live. It's a good thing that there are so many great pro games around the world being played, in my opinion.
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I like watching GSL alot more than mlg, the breaks are way shorter and the players a lot better on average. Though i can understand people who complain about constant TvTs I don't see how mlg is better. The last 3 tournaments were all extremely terran heavy once the bracket play started.
I admit though that i miss daily Tastosis' casts. Although I think the other casters are nice as well, I dont the any other caster duo has the same quality as they do. Im really looking forward to Khaldors casting though.
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On September 08 2011 06:29 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2011 06:25 Zanno wrote:
i don't understand all the hate for TvT
it's the only matchup at the moment that plays like a proper starcraft match, although TvZ is getting close Lol "proper". Give me a break. Call it what you want, but any mirror has half the unit diversity of a non-mirror matchup. Not to mention that terran games are generally the most boring to watch. Hellions are perhaps the only sort of exciting thing tvt had going for it. Slow tank contains and viking wars are something I don't even consider worth watching.
1) there's real defenders advantage and lots of positional play
2) comebacks are possible and frequent, compared to something like PvP where it's like "oh i lost two extra stalkers gg"
3) TvT is really the only matchup where every single unit is useful at some phase in the game, except for perhaps reapers, but even nada killed someone with mass reapers once so who knows. pure bio is falling out of favor but not completely and i think will ultimately turn into a map dependent thing
compare that to TvP where unless you do one of the many forms of tank allins, all you really do is a-move marauders and micro a few things that support marauders
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On September 08 2011 06:33 tree.hugger wrote:
Or...
just get rid of Code S and Code A and have one tournament with seeds, just like every other tournament in the world. Why is GSL so needlessly complicated?
Because a two tier system helps to separate the best from the rest, and then showcase those players. Look at people like Kyrix. A lot of people don't believe in Code S. It takes a few seasons, because players can get a lucky win or two, but then it evens out. Give it until November/ December, and Code S will mainly only contain the players who deserve to be there...
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I don't like MLG's system at all for it being just a weekend tournament. Should just be double elim for everyone the whole way through, I think we'd get to see a lot more of the actual tournament instead of just pool matches of the same players over and over that way also.
GSL's system is hilariously bad. It should be possible for someone to start at the bottom qualifiers and work their way through to the championship.
The MSL and OSL had great systems for this, giving the top 8 from the last tournament a seed into the ro32 of the next, but everyone outside of that going a step back in the qualifying process.
There are too many good players, especially in korea, to have Code S so set apart. If you forced everyone currently in code S to try to qualify again, many would not make it back. That means for every amazing champion player we have in Code S, we have just as many champion caliber player that simply can't get in because of the low turnover, and lots of players of a lesser caliber staying in Code S because of the rules.
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Blazinghand
United States25562 Posts
On September 08 2011 06:40 Zanno wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2011 06:29 Mohdoo wrote:On September 08 2011 06:25 Zanno wrote:
i don't understand all the hate for TvT
it's the only matchup at the moment that plays like a proper starcraft match, although TvZ is getting close Lol "proper". Give me a break. Call it what you want, but any mirror has half the unit diversity of a non-mirror matchup. Not to mention that terran games are generally the most boring to watch. Hellions are perhaps the only sort of exciting thing tvt had going for it. Slow tank contains and viking wars are something I don't even consider worth watching. 1) there's real defenders advantage and lots of positional play 2) comebacks are possible and frequent, compared to something like PvP where it's like "oh i lost two extra stalkers gg" 3) TvT is really the only matchup where every single unit is useful at some phase in the game, except for perhaps reapers, but even nada killed someone with mass reapers once so who knows. pure bio is falling out of favor but not completely and i think will ultimately turn into a map dependent thing compare that to TvP where unless you do one of the many forms of tank allins, all you really do is a-move marauders and micro a few things that support marauders
I think all the matchups have merit, actually. PvP, for example, is so intense and micro-oriented that it's riveting. Watching Huk v Killer had me glued to the edge of my seat sweating like a fish for the entire game! TvT is very positional, but watching the mechanics and tactics fly around in the other matchups is entertaining as well 
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hard to complain about a weekend jampacked full of great games like MLG, at the same time its the things like GSL that keep me interested in the sport long-term, every week there always seems to be at least one match that i'm stoked for and keeps me intrigued. thats just me though.
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On September 08 2011 06:21 AudionovA wrote:
Its been said before, there's simply to much TvT.
Yes couldn't agree more, however I doubt there's something they really can do about it. However I'm always curious why MLG always gets so many terran invites, perhaps because it's the dominating race in korea or because of something else perhaps...
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On September 08 2011 06:36 Highways wrote:
Too much games and super high frequency of them.
GOM needs to gave a break or show less games.
I agree with this. Especially during the first 2 weeks of the past few seasons, they have 5-6hours of casting per day, maybe even more. Its too much to watch. Plus with the team league happening at the same time, its a lot of starcraft to take in.
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On September 08 2011 06:42 eYeball wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2011 06:21 AudionovA wrote:
Its been said before, there's simply to much TvT. Yes couldn't agree more, however I doubt there's something they really can do about it. However I'm always curious why MLG always gets so many terran invites, perhaps because it's the dominating race in korea or because of something else perhaps...
I think MLG_Adam specifically said they aim to invite the returning champion (which, surprise, is always a korean terran) and 1t 1p and 1z.
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On September 08 2011 06:42 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2011 06:40 Zanno wrote:On September 08 2011 06:29 Mohdoo wrote:On September 08 2011 06:25 Zanno wrote:
i don't understand all the hate for TvT
it's the only matchup at the moment that plays like a proper starcraft match, although TvZ is getting close Lol "proper". Give me a break. Call it what you want, but any mirror has half the unit diversity of a non-mirror matchup. Not to mention that terran games are generally the most boring to watch. Hellions are perhaps the only sort of exciting thing tvt had going for it. Slow tank contains and viking wars are something I don't even consider worth watching. 1) there's real defenders advantage and lots of positional play 2) comebacks are possible and frequent, compared to something like PvP where it's like "oh i lost two extra stalkers gg" 3) TvT is really the only matchup where every single unit is useful at some phase in the game, except for perhaps reapers, but even nada killed someone with mass reapers once so who knows. pure bio is falling out of favor but not completely and i think will ultimately turn into a map dependent thing compare that to TvP where unless you do one of the many forms of tank allins, all you really do is a-move marauders and micro a few things that support marauders I think all the matchups have merit, actually. PvP, for example, is so intense and micro-oriented that it's riveting. Watching Huk v Killer had me glued to the edge of my seat sweating like a fish for the entire game! TvT is very positional, but watching the mechanics and tactics fly around in the other matchups is entertaining as well
my take on PvP is it's like a warcraft 3 match that ends in 10 minutes on account of things actually die
there's certainly a skill to it, but the current state of TvT resembles a game of brood war more than any of the other matchups, and as someone who's been following the scene on and off since flash was just that kid who cheesed bisu out, i find it to be the most entertaining matchup
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Why doesn't GSL re-broadcast?
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I don't agree that GSL is becoming more boring, personally. GSL has only become more high level as the seasons have gone by. It's possible that some people are simply becoming bored of starcraft itself. After all, most sports don't have their fans watching them 12 months of the year, 5 days a week.
MLG isn't just starcraft games. It's interviews, big crowds, and drama. GSL is more just, small intro with flashing lights/flames, and then game, game, game, with maybe some small ceremonies in between or after.
If you're interested in studying the game itself, there's nothing better than GSL. If you want the whole package of entertainment, MLG.
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so u just want more regular super tournament/world championship where everyone can take place...
maybe do 1 month code A/S then 1 month championship or smth,
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TvT is like watching nascar, there's a few good moments in an otherwise boooooooring event. If you got the time to sit down and watch all of it, it can be entertaining, otherwise it's not really worth it. Especially with all the other leagues and tournaments going on.
Plus I think SC2 now is past the point of explosive growth in the number of openers and strats so there aren't as many metagame shifting strats as there were in earlier seasons.
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EPT
