• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 15:47
CET 20:47
KST 04:47
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8
Community News
2026 KongFu Cup Announcement3BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled12Blizzard Classic Cup - Tastosis announced as captains15Weekly Cups (March 2-8): ByuN overcomes PvT block4GSL CK - New online series19
StarCraft 2
General
GSL CK - New online series BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled Blizzard Classic Cup - Tastosis announced as captains BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT
Tourneys
RSL Season 4 announced for March-April PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament 2026 KongFu Cup Announcement [GSL CK] Team Maru vs. Team herO
Strategy
Custom Maps
Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026] Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 517 Distant Threat The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 516 Specter of Death Mutation # 515 Together Forever
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BSL 22 Map Contest — Submissions OPEN to March 10 ASL21 General Discussion Are you ready for ASL 21? Hype VIDEO Gypsy to Korea
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL22] Open Qualifiers & Ladder Tours IPSL Spring 2026 is here! ASL Season 21 Qualifiers March 7-8
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Fighting Spirit mining rates Zealot bombing is no longer popular?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread PC Games Sales Thread No Man's Sky (PS4 and PC)
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Five o'clock TL Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Mexico's Drug War Russo-Ukrainian War Thread NASA and the Private Sector
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread General nutrition recommendations Cricket [SPORT] TL MMA Pick'em Pool 2013
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Laptop capable of using Photoshop Lightroom?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Money Laundering In Video Ga…
TrAiDoS
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
Unintentional protectionism…
Uldridge
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2293 users

Should "Deal Making" be illegal? - Page 50

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 48 49 50 51 52 75 Next
ketomai
Profile Joined June 2007
United States2789 Posts
September 02 2011 07:54 GMT
#981
On September 02 2011 16:50 Medrea wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2011 16:43 ReignFayth wrote:
On September 02 2011 16:42 Medrea wrote:
On September 02 2011 16:40 ketomai wrote:
On September 02 2011 16:37 Medrea wrote:
On September 02 2011 16:36 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
On September 02 2011 16:33 Medrea wrote:
On September 02 2011 16:29 babylon wrote:
On September 02 2011 16:20 Medrea wrote:
On September 02 2011 16:19 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:
[quote]

And how do these deals invalidate the integrity of the match? Oh wait that's right they don't.

It's none of anyone's business what they do with their finances.


Of course they do. Knowing that your gonna get paid the same win or lose affects the match.

1st: $100
2nd: $50

The two players agree beforehand that the winner will buy the loser a $25 dinner. Is this immoral? Will this affect the outcome of the match? You tell me.


You know what? I have a better response. It doesn't matter.

If its known that between the two people and EVERYONE WATCHING the 1st place winner pays the 2nd place person a 25 dollar dinner. Sure go for it. At least people are knowledgable. But don't do it under the table.


Wait, so any economic dealing that players make have to be made public now, as well? That's ridiculous.


Its also extraordinarily prevalent (public salaries are very common).


Then tell me the salary of Huk or Idra. Or tell me the salary of your coworkers/Boss. You probably can't tell me :p. Financial matters should stay private.




Yes I can tell you a lot of the salaries of my co-workers. Or in the very least a bracket. And in many sports salaries are public for a very good reason.

clearly you won't change your mind about this, if you're not happy about it stop watching it, I'm going to keep watching and so are thousands of other people


Hmmm. Maybe there is a better outlook than what meets the eye.

Smaller tournaments are more vulnerable to this kind of action. Because they have less intangibles to offer. Correct?

Larger tournaments are probably more immune as the intangible benefits start to really outweigh the earnings.

To be truly honest. I'm not 100 percent against the split across all tournaments large and small. I am, however, 100 percent against it being kept a secret from me however, it just rubs me the wrong way. I would like to at least know that nothing is on the line for these two players, and I would probably be ok with it to some degree.

I am not being unreasonable I think.




Again, financial matters are not your business :p.

Sports leagues are transparent because so much money is involved in those leagues that people have to make sure they are being payed fairly. SC2 isn't even close to that level yet. In everyday life, it's rude to ask for someone's financial dealings.

Besides that there's really no point in knowing how a prize is split if you concede that in larger tournaments, they are playing for a lot more than just the prize.
MaestroSC
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States2073 Posts
September 02 2011 07:54 GMT
#982
On September 02 2011 16:50 Medrea wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2011 16:43 ReignFayth wrote:
On September 02 2011 16:42 Medrea wrote:
On September 02 2011 16:40 ketomai wrote:
On September 02 2011 16:37 Medrea wrote:
On September 02 2011 16:36 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
On September 02 2011 16:33 Medrea wrote:
On September 02 2011 16:29 babylon wrote:
On September 02 2011 16:20 Medrea wrote:
On September 02 2011 16:19 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:
[quote]

And how do these deals invalidate the integrity of the match? Oh wait that's right they don't.

It's none of anyone's business what they do with their finances.


Of course they do. Knowing that your gonna get paid the same win or lose affects the match.

1st: $100
2nd: $50

The two players agree beforehand that the winner will buy the loser a $25 dinner. Is this immoral? Will this affect the outcome of the match? You tell me.


You know what? I have a better response. It doesn't matter.

If its known that between the two people and EVERYONE WATCHING the 1st place winner pays the 2nd place person a 25 dollar dinner. Sure go for it. At least people are knowledgable. But don't do it under the table.


Wait, so any economic dealing that players make have to be made public now, as well? That's ridiculous.


Its also extraordinarily prevalent (public salaries are very common).


Then tell me the salary of Huk or Idra. Or tell me the salary of your coworkers/Boss. You probably can't tell me :p. Financial matters should stay private.




Yes I can tell you a lot of the salaries of my co-workers. Or in the very least a bracket. And in many sports salaries are public for a very good reason.

clearly you won't change your mind about this, if you're not happy about it stop watching it, I'm going to keep watching and so are thousands of other people


Hmmm. Maybe there is a better outlook than what meets the eye.

Smaller tournaments are more vulnerable to this kind of action. Because they have less intangibles to offer. Correct?

Larger tournaments are probably more immune as the intangible benefits start to really outweigh the earnings.

To be truly honest. I'm not 100 percent against the split across all tournaments large and small. I am, however, 100 percent against it being kept a secret from me however, it just rubs me the wrong way. I would like to at least know that nothing is on the line for these two players, and I would probably be ok with it to some degree.

I am not being unreasonable I think.




Should players also report in to you with their annual incomes? Their sponsorship and stream money? Their state of mind/health?

What if he is tired, should he call or text? Maybe make an announcement. "OK guys, I am pretty tired and am on tilt, so i am probably not going to play that great in this series... I felt like you all should know." ?

You are being completely unreasonable. People's personal and financial dealings have absolutely nothing to do with you.
Excludos
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway8242 Posts
September 02 2011 07:54 GMT
#983
On September 02 2011 16:50 Medrea wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2011 16:43 ReignFayth wrote:
On September 02 2011 16:42 Medrea wrote:
On September 02 2011 16:40 ketomai wrote:
On September 02 2011 16:37 Medrea wrote:
On September 02 2011 16:36 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
On September 02 2011 16:33 Medrea wrote:
On September 02 2011 16:29 babylon wrote:
On September 02 2011 16:20 Medrea wrote:
On September 02 2011 16:19 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:
[quote]

And how do these deals invalidate the integrity of the match? Oh wait that's right they don't.

It's none of anyone's business what they do with their finances.


Of course they do. Knowing that your gonna get paid the same win or lose affects the match.

1st: $100
2nd: $50

The two players agree beforehand that the winner will buy the loser a $25 dinner. Is this immoral? Will this affect the outcome of the match? You tell me.


You know what? I have a better response. It doesn't matter.

If its known that between the two people and EVERYONE WATCHING the 1st place winner pays the 2nd place person a 25 dollar dinner. Sure go for it. At least people are knowledgable. But don't do it under the table.


Wait, so any economic dealing that players make have to be made public now, as well? That's ridiculous.


Its also extraordinarily prevalent (public salaries are very common).


Then tell me the salary of Huk or Idra. Or tell me the salary of your coworkers/Boss. You probably can't tell me :p. Financial matters should stay private.




Yes I can tell you a lot of the salaries of my co-workers. Or in the very least a bracket. And in many sports salaries are public for a very good reason.

clearly you won't change your mind about this, if you're not happy about it stop watching it, I'm going to keep watching and so are thousands of other people


Hmmm. Maybe there is a better outlook than what meets the eye.

Smaller tournaments are more vulnerable to this kind of action. Because they have less intangibles to offer. Correct?

Larger tournaments are probably more immune as the intangible benefits start to really outweigh the earnings.

To be truly honest. I'm not 100 percent against the split across all tournaments large and small. I am, however, 100 percent against it being kept a secret from me however, it just rubs me the wrong way. I would like to at least know that nothing is on the line for these two players, and I would probably be ok with it to some degree.

I am not being unreasonable I think.




Really? you would much rather know that 2 people are going to split money, when you have spent the last pages ranting about how money splitting destroys your pleasure in watching a match?

Seriously. The easiest way to do this is let it happen, but don't tell the viewers. The viewers get to keep the suspense, and the players get to keep their jobs.
MyNameWuzBoB
Profile Joined June 2011
57 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-02 07:56:03
September 02 2011 07:54 GMT
#984
On September 02 2011 16:51 MaestroSC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2011 16:47 Kaitlin wrote:
Lots of comments about people being able to do whatever they want with their money after the tournament. It's not about what happens after the games are played, it's the agreement entered into before the games are played that affects the integrity of the event.

On September 02 2011 16:36 Rekrul wrote:
The problem with this kind of stuff is that there is absolutely no way to stop it if the two are smart about it. All we can ask is that to any potential people doing this to keep the games legit and never let anyone find out about your deals because theres no point.


It seems to me that your view is that you realize it's against the rules, but you're ok with it as long as nobody finds out ?


His view is that it is LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE to regulate. And that it really doesnt affect the games as much as some people think. And that it IS GOING TO HAPPEN. So crying and whining about it is useless.

And I dont think he said it was against the rules, but that some stuck up ignorant people, might find it morally incorrect.



We should force players to make sure they eat breakfast before big games. If they don't eat breakfast it may impact the games. Also we should ban players if they don't get at least 8 hours a sleep beforehand. /s
Kaitlin
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2958 Posts
September 02 2011 07:54 GMT
#985
On September 02 2011 16:41 ReignFayth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2011 16:39 Medrea wrote:
On September 02 2011 16:36 Rekrul wrote:
All I have to say is if I was facing Flash in OSL finals 1st place being 20k and 2nd place being 5k and he offered me a deal that no matter the results he gets 19.9k and I get 5.1k I would snap accept his deal and not feel bad about it all LOL.

But seriously: I think two players discussing a deal privately and agreeing on a set prize for each of them is completely fine as long as there is nothing discussed about the games (aka planning shit). There is still a lot of pride and fame value on the line which in many cases is worth more than the prizes. Most progamers really need the money and sometimes they find themselves in situations where making a deal could secure them important life changing money.

But if the players include shit in the deal such as who gets to win etc. then it becomes extremely bad and those faggots should be fucken BANNED.

The problem with this kind of stuff is that there is absolutely no way to stop it if the two are smart about it. All we can ask is that to any potential people doing this to keep the games legit and never let anyone find out about your deals because theres no point.


Right. That much is easy to see. The problem is a matter of trust. You can't trust everyone. And the end-spectator must be protected. Otherwise there is no show. And no show means no sponsorship, and that means no further prize winnings.

I doubt spectators would be as extreme as you portray it lol, I'm pretty sure very very little people would stop watching just from knowing there a possibly a deal behind all of this


Well, there is a difference between merely "watching" and "supporting" e-sports. I'll watch games between players that I expect will be entertaining. But if you think I'm going to pay for to watch a competition with compromised integrity, that's entirely different. Watching the NASL last season every episode was peppered with the importance of buying the league pass to support the league and e-sports. Sure, they got "some" money from ad revenue generated by my viewership, but not nearly what they would get from paid subscriptions. Correct me if I'm wrong, but these events, and in turn the pro-gamer prize money, is not derived largely from people who merely "watch".
Medrea
Profile Joined May 2011
10003 Posts
September 02 2011 07:55 GMT
#986
On September 02 2011 16:53 ReignFayth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2011 16:50 Medrea wrote:
On September 02 2011 16:43 ReignFayth wrote:
On September 02 2011 16:42 Medrea wrote:
On September 02 2011 16:40 ketomai wrote:
On September 02 2011 16:37 Medrea wrote:
On September 02 2011 16:36 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
On September 02 2011 16:33 Medrea wrote:
On September 02 2011 16:29 babylon wrote:
On September 02 2011 16:20 Medrea wrote:
[quote]

Of course they do. Knowing that your gonna get paid the same win or lose affects the match.

1st: $100
2nd: $50

The two players agree beforehand that the winner will buy the loser a $25 dinner. Is this immoral? Will this affect the outcome of the match? You tell me.


You know what? I have a better response. It doesn't matter.

If its known that between the two people and EVERYONE WATCHING the 1st place winner pays the 2nd place person a 25 dollar dinner. Sure go for it. At least people are knowledgable. But don't do it under the table.


Wait, so any economic dealing that players make have to be made public now, as well? That's ridiculous.


Its also extraordinarily prevalent (public salaries are very common).


Then tell me the salary of Huk or Idra. Or tell me the salary of your coworkers/Boss. You probably can't tell me :p. Financial matters should stay private.




Yes I can tell you a lot of the salaries of my co-workers. Or in the very least a bracket. And in many sports salaries are public for a very good reason.

clearly you won't change your mind about this, if you're not happy about it stop watching it, I'm going to keep watching and so are thousands of other people


Hmmm. Maybe there is a better outlook than what meets the eye.

Smaller tournaments are more vulnerable to this kind of action. Because they have less intangibles to offer. Correct?

Larger tournaments are probably more immune as the intangible benefits start to really outweigh the earnings.

To be truly honest. I'm not 100 percent against the split across all tournaments large and small. I am, however, 100 percent against it being kept a secret from me however, it just rubs me the wrong way. I would like to at least know that nothing is on the line for these two players, and I would probably be ok with it to some degree.

I am not being unreasonable I think.



Well I think it is fairly unreasonable to ask what they do with their money, It's really not gonna change anything for you... really..


Not really interested in the specifics really. Just the basics.
twitch.tv/medrea
Oktyabr
Profile Joined July 2011
Singapore2234 Posts
September 02 2011 07:57 GMT
#987
On September 02 2011 16:50 Medrea wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2011 16:43 ReignFayth wrote:
On September 02 2011 16:42 Medrea wrote:
On September 02 2011 16:40 ketomai wrote:
On September 02 2011 16:37 Medrea wrote:
On September 02 2011 16:36 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
On September 02 2011 16:33 Medrea wrote:
On September 02 2011 16:29 babylon wrote:
On September 02 2011 16:20 Medrea wrote:
On September 02 2011 16:19 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:
[quote]

And how do these deals invalidate the integrity of the match? Oh wait that's right they don't.

It's none of anyone's business what they do with their finances.


Of course they do. Knowing that your gonna get paid the same win or lose affects the match.

1st: $100
2nd: $50

The two players agree beforehand that the winner will buy the loser a $25 dinner. Is this immoral? Will this affect the outcome of the match? You tell me.


You know what? I have a better response. It doesn't matter.

If its known that between the two people and EVERYONE WATCHING the 1st place winner pays the 2nd place person a 25 dollar dinner. Sure go for it. At least people are knowledgable. But don't do it under the table.


Wait, so any economic dealing that players make have to be made public now, as well? That's ridiculous.


Its also extraordinarily prevalent (public salaries are very common).


Then tell me the salary of Huk or Idra. Or tell me the salary of your coworkers/Boss. You probably can't tell me :p. Financial matters should stay private.




Yes I can tell you a lot of the salaries of my co-workers. Or in the very least a bracket. And in many sports salaries are public for a very good reason.

clearly you won't change your mind about this, if you're not happy about it stop watching it, I'm going to keep watching and so are thousands of other people


Hmmm. Maybe there is a better outlook than what meets the eye.

Smaller tournaments are more vulnerable to this kind of action. Because they have less intangibles to offer. Correct?

Larger tournaments are probably more immune as the intangible benefits start to really outweigh the earnings.

To be truly honest. I'm not 100 percent against the split across all tournaments large and small. I am, however, 100 percent against it being kept a secret from me however, it just rubs me the wrong way. I would like to at least know that nothing is on the line for these two players, and I would probably be ok with it to some degree.

I am not being unreasonable I think.




Most people would think you are. You're not privy to monetary decisions carried out by the players themselves, because they're personal issues altogether.

You are, however, free to choose what games of which players you wish to watch. If you believe that they're not entertaining enough because they're possibly tainted by a brokered deal, then you can vote with your time and money - simply stop supporting those players in question by not watching those streams / paying for those VODs.
Osmoses
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Sweden5302 Posts
September 02 2011 07:57 GMT
#988
As a matter of principle, I suppose it's not OK.

In a world not populated by unicorns and magical little ponies however, I see no problem with this.
Excuse me hun, but what is your name? Vivian? I woke up next to you naked and, uh, did we, um?
vrok
Profile Joined August 2009
Sweden2541 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-02 08:01:51
September 02 2011 07:58 GMT
#989
Deciding to give away some of your prize money after winning, to the second place finisher is fine. Agreeing to do this before the match takes place is illegal, if it isn't here yet, it should be. Entering such an agreement and doing '1base carrier rush lols' is match fixing and should result in a ban from entering any respectable competitions. Period.

If you think it's fine because you can get away with it, I don't care, you'll have to live with being a disgrace to your profession. If you end up a dumbass and it gets made public, we will fucking crucify you.
"Starcraft 2 very easy game" - White-Ra
MaestroSC
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States2073 Posts
September 02 2011 07:58 GMT
#990
On September 02 2011 16:54 Kaitlin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2011 16:41 ReignFayth wrote:
On September 02 2011 16:39 Medrea wrote:
On September 02 2011 16:36 Rekrul wrote:
All I have to say is if I was facing Flash in OSL finals 1st place being 20k and 2nd place being 5k and he offered me a deal that no matter the results he gets 19.9k and I get 5.1k I would snap accept his deal and not feel bad about it all LOL.

But seriously: I think two players discussing a deal privately and agreeing on a set prize for each of them is completely fine as long as there is nothing discussed about the games (aka planning shit). There is still a lot of pride and fame value on the line which in many cases is worth more than the prizes. Most progamers really need the money and sometimes they find themselves in situations where making a deal could secure them important life changing money.

But if the players include shit in the deal such as who gets to win etc. then it becomes extremely bad and those faggots should be fucken BANNED.

The problem with this kind of stuff is that there is absolutely no way to stop it if the two are smart about it. All we can ask is that to any potential people doing this to keep the games legit and never let anyone find out about your deals because theres no point.


Right. That much is easy to see. The problem is a matter of trust. You can't trust everyone. And the end-spectator must be protected. Otherwise there is no show. And no show means no sponsorship, and that means no further prize winnings.

I doubt spectators would be as extreme as you portray it lol, I'm pretty sure very very little people would stop watching just from knowing there a possibly a deal behind all of this


Well, there is a difference between merely "watching" and "supporting" e-sports. I'll watch games between players that I expect will be entertaining. But if you think I'm going to pay for to watch a competition with compromised integrity, that's entirely different. Watching the NASL last season every episode was peppered with the importance of buying the league pass to support the league and e-sports. Sure, they got "some" money from ad revenue generated by my viewership, but not nearly what they would get from paid subscriptions. Correct me if I'm wrong, but these events, and in turn the pro-gamer prize money, is not derived largely from people who merely "watch".


Real money comes from sponsorship which comes from viewer counts.
Notice how we don't pay the NFL for every football game we watch on TV? Or ABC/ESPN? They make their money on advertising. "50,000,000 people watched the super bowl... we need people to buy ad-time. and we can gaurentee your product/business will be exposed to 50,000,000 viewers."

This is why you also get hotpocket and stride gum and other terrible commercials during MLG streams.

So you are supporting merely by watching. And that is where the REAL money eventually comes from.
MVega
Profile Joined November 2010
763 Posts
September 02 2011 07:59 GMT
#991
Okay I'm all for protecting the integrity of eSports and whatever but really guys? Really?

I think if actual match fixing occurs those players should be banned from that tournament and all affiliated tournaments for quite a long time. Agreeing to split the prize money though? As long as they don't agree to throw games or do anything silly in the games that diminishes their quality it should be perfectly fine.

What if a pro player was going to donate all of his money to charity if he won? Either way he's not going to get that money, someone else is, so maybe he'll just throw the games. Maybe we should prevent people from giving their winnings to good causes to?

And yes, venues can ban players for things like that if they want to, but how are they going to know? Even if salaries were transparent - how are they going to know? Player A and Player B split a prize, player A deposits the check and writes a check to player B. Or player A deposits his check and then withdraws half from his account and gives it to player B in cash. Aside from the bank who is going to know? Unless someone is going to follow player B around for awhile and see if he buys a plasma TV suddenly?

For me personally I would play better if there was less pressure. If there was a giant list of things that I couldn't do with my prize money I wouldn't want to play as much.
bumkin: How can you play like 50 games per day... I 4gate 2 times then it's nap time
Rekrul
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
Korea (South)17174 Posts
September 02 2011 07:59 GMT
#992
Now that I think about it if two GSL finalists decided to just chop up the 1st/2nd prize money equally then spent the time before the finals spending it all together getting drunk every night instead of practicing then gave some really crappy hungover finals that'd be way more entertaining than normal games.
why so 진지해?
Kaitlin
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2958 Posts
September 02 2011 08:00 GMT
#993
On September 02 2011 16:51 ReignFayth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2011 16:47 Kaitlin wrote:
Lots of comments about people being able to do whatever they want with their money after the tournament. It's not about what happens after the games are played, it's the agreement entered into before the games are played that affects the integrity of the event.

On September 02 2011 16:36 Rekrul wrote:
The problem with this kind of stuff is that there is absolutely no way to stop it if the two are smart about it. All we can ask is that to any potential people doing this to keep the games legit and never let anyone find out about your deals because theres no point.


It seems to me that your view is that you realize it's against the rules, but you're ok with it as long as nobody finds out ?

what is against the rule is planning a match beforehand, not splitting the money


Then why the language about being "smart about it" and "never let anyone find out about your deals" ?
Medrea
Profile Joined May 2011
10003 Posts
September 02 2011 08:00 GMT
#994
On September 02 2011 16:57 Oktyabr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2011 16:50 Medrea wrote:
On September 02 2011 16:43 ReignFayth wrote:
On September 02 2011 16:42 Medrea wrote:
On September 02 2011 16:40 ketomai wrote:
On September 02 2011 16:37 Medrea wrote:
On September 02 2011 16:36 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
On September 02 2011 16:33 Medrea wrote:
On September 02 2011 16:29 babylon wrote:
On September 02 2011 16:20 Medrea wrote:
[quote]

Of course they do. Knowing that your gonna get paid the same win or lose affects the match.

1st: $100
2nd: $50

The two players agree beforehand that the winner will buy the loser a $25 dinner. Is this immoral? Will this affect the outcome of the match? You tell me.


You know what? I have a better response. It doesn't matter.

If its known that between the two people and EVERYONE WATCHING the 1st place winner pays the 2nd place person a 25 dollar dinner. Sure go for it. At least people are knowledgable. But don't do it under the table.


Wait, so any economic dealing that players make have to be made public now, as well? That's ridiculous.


Its also extraordinarily prevalent (public salaries are very common).


Then tell me the salary of Huk or Idra. Or tell me the salary of your coworkers/Boss. You probably can't tell me :p. Financial matters should stay private.




Yes I can tell you a lot of the salaries of my co-workers. Or in the very least a bracket. And in many sports salaries are public for a very good reason.

clearly you won't change your mind about this, if you're not happy about it stop watching it, I'm going to keep watching and so are thousands of other people


Hmmm. Maybe there is a better outlook than what meets the eye.

Smaller tournaments are more vulnerable to this kind of action. Because they have less intangibles to offer. Correct?

Larger tournaments are probably more immune as the intangible benefits start to really outweigh the earnings.

To be truly honest. I'm not 100 percent against the split across all tournaments large and small. I am, however, 100 percent against it being kept a secret from me however, it just rubs me the wrong way. I would like to at least know that nothing is on the line for these two players, and I would probably be ok with it to some degree.

I am not being unreasonable I think.




Most people would think you are. You're not privy to monetary decisions carried out by the players themselves, because they're personal issues altogether.

You are, however, free to choose what games of which players you wish to watch. If you believe that they're not entertaining enough because they're possibly tainted by a brokered deal, then you can vote with your time and money - simply stop supporting those players in question by not watching those streams / paying for those VODs.


Right, and thats really all there is to it honestly. Support for competitions where the legitimacy is compromised will always have an endpoint thats unfavorable to everyone. Which is unfortunate and doesnt need to happen.
twitch.tv/medrea
Excludos
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway8242 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-02 08:00:39
September 02 2011 08:00 GMT
#995
On September 02 2011 16:58 vrok wrote:
Giving away some of your prize money after winning to the second place finisher is fine. Agreeing to do this before the match takes place is illegal. Entering such an agreement and doing '1base carrier rush lols' is match fixing and should result in a ban from entering any respectable competitions. Period.

If you think it's fine because you can get away with it, I don't care, you'll have to live with being a disgrace to your profession. If you end up a dumbass and it gets made public, we will fucking crucify you.


You need to learn the difference between match fixing and money splitting. One does not include the other.
luRx_
Profile Joined November 2010
31 Posts
September 02 2011 08:00 GMT
#996
On September 02 2011 16:54 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2011 16:51 MaestroSC wrote:
On September 02 2011 16:47 Kaitlin wrote:
Lots of comments about people being able to do whatever they want with their money after the tournament. It's not about what happens after the games are played, it's the agreement entered into before the games are played that affects the integrity of the event.

On September 02 2011 16:36 Rekrul wrote:
The problem with this kind of stuff is that there is absolutely no way to stop it if the two are smart about it. All we can ask is that to any potential people doing this to keep the games legit and never let anyone find out about your deals because theres no point.


It seems to me that your view is that you realize it's against the rules, but you're ok with it as long as nobody finds out ?


His view is that it is LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE to regulate. And that it really doesnt affect the games as much as some people think. And that it IS GOING TO HAPPEN. So crying and whining about it is useless.

And I dont think he said it was against the rules, but that some stuck up ignorant people, might find it morally incorrect.



We should force players to make sure they eat breakfast before big games. If they don't eat breakfast it may impact the games. Also we should ban players if they don't get at least 8 hours a sleep beforehand. /s


Something tells me you won 4th grade debate in elementary school.
VaultDweller
Profile Joined January 2011
Romania132 Posts
September 02 2011 08:00 GMT
#997
I say we put all pro players in cages and organize tournaments where they compete for their freedom. Tension and real stakes guaranteed.

Seriously though, as long as there is no "I give you X of the prize money if you throw the game" splitting the winnings between team mates or whatever it's hardly an issue for me. There is still pride and fame on the line.... I'd like to see a player that is godly at this game going... " Meh, I don't really care if I loose as long as I take teh moenyz to pimp ma'h ride. " I mean, who needs tens of thousands of ppl chanting his name?
"War is not about who's right- it's about who's left."
MaestroSC
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States2073 Posts
September 02 2011 08:00 GMT
#998
On September 02 2011 16:58 vrok wrote:
Giving away some of your prize money after winning to the second place finisher is fine. Agreeing to do this before the match takes place is illegal. Entering such an agreement and doing '1base carrier rush lols' is match fixing and should result in a ban from entering any respectable competitions. Period.

If you think it's fine because you can get away with it, I don't care, you'll have to live with being a disgrace to your profession. If you end up a dumbass and it gets made public, we will fucking crucify you.


I dont understand how you became the collective voice of tournament watchers.

Why dont you just say "I WILL HATE YOU" because you think its more threatening when its "WE!" ? But you dont speak for everyone... ?

You are the voice and moral judge of e-sports followers and I dont even know your name/face. I feel like I should have gotten to vote on this.
MyNameWuzBoB
Profile Joined June 2011
57 Posts
September 02 2011 08:01 GMT
#999
On September 02 2011 16:58 vrok wrote:
Giving away some of your prize money after winning to the second place finisher is fine. Agreeing to do this before the match takes place is illegal. Entering such an agreement and doing '1base carrier rush lols' is match fixing and should result in a ban from entering any respectable competitions. Period.

If you think it's fine because you can get away with it, I don't care, you'll have to live with being a disgrace to your profession. If you end up a dumbass and it gets made public, we will fucking crucify you.


Ugh... It's only match fixing if they agree on a winner beforehand, which is something entirely different. If a player is dumb enough to do one base carrier just because they made a deal prior to the match then they shouldn't be a pro starcraft player. Like many have said prior, there's much more than just monetary value in winning a tournament.
ketomai
Profile Joined June 2007
United States2789 Posts
September 02 2011 08:02 GMT
#1000
On September 02 2011 16:59 Rekrul wrote:
Now that I think about it if two GSL finalists decided to just chop up the 1st/2nd prize money equally then spent the time before the finals spending it all together getting drunk every night instead of practicing then gave some really crappy hungover finals that'd be way more entertaining than normal games.


So that's what you did to Yellow~

+ Show Spoiler +
jkjkjkjk
Prev 1 48 49 50 51 52 75 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Patches Events
17:00
Modded Open Cup
davetesta67
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 474
EmSc Tv 128
ProTech33
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 4113
Mini 561
EffOrt 318
actioN 151
sorry 49
Hm[arnc] 24
Dota 2
Gorgc7605
qojqva1287
capcasts158
monkeys_forever128
Counter-Strike
fl0m4091
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor697
Liquid`Hasu553
Other Games
gofns57140
tarik_tv19580
FrodaN2197
Liquid`RaSZi1435
Grubby1228
B2W.Neo725
crisheroes249
Hui .107
ToD6
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream23615
Other Games
gamesdonequick1145
ComeBackTV 331
StarCraft 2
EmSc Tv 128
EmSc2Tv 128
Other Games
BasetradeTV85
StarCraft 2
angryscii 38
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 20 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Adnapsc2 11
• Reevou 8
• HeavenSC 1
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 25
• Azhi_Dahaki25
• blackmanpl 25
• Airneanach13
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota243
Other Games
• imaqtpie1427
• Shiphtur253
Upcoming Events
BSL
13m
GSL
12h 13m
Wardi Open
16h 13m
Monday Night Weeklies
21h 13m
WardiTV Team League
1d 16h
PiGosaur Cup
2 days
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
OSC
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
KCM Race Survival
3 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Team League
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
KCM Race Survival
4 days
WardiTV Team League
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
5 days
BSL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-03-13
WardiTV Winter 2026
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Jeongseon Sooper Cup
BSL Season 22
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

CSL Elite League 2026
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
2026 Changsha Offline CUP
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
NationLESS Cup
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.