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On September 02 2011 16:37 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 16:36 Mr. Wiggles wrote:On September 02 2011 16:33 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:29 babylon wrote:On September 02 2011 16:20 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:19 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:On September 02 2011 16:16 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:15 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:On September 02 2011 16:12 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:07 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:
[quote]
Don't even bother. No point arguing with him. I just love the hypocrites in this thread who claim to be all about game integrity and honor but see nothing wrong with someone backing out on their word. Splitting the winnings of a match and backing out of the deal to split the winnings of a match can BOTH be bad. How is it bad? Are people being forced into these deals? You want to tell two people what they can do with their own money. Gotcha. Yes? Don't make backroom deals that invalidate the integrity of the match? Or if you do, make it public knowledge at least. This has to be like, a lot of peoples first medium for competing, I don't get it. And how do these deals invalidate the integrity of the match? Oh wait that's right they don't. It's none of anyone's business what they do with their finances. Of course they do. Knowing that your gonna get paid the same win or lose affects the match. 1st: $100 2nd: $50 The two players agree beforehand that the winner will buy the loser a $25 dinner. Is this immoral? Will this affect the outcome of the match? You tell me. You know what? I have a better response. It doesn't matter. If its known that between the two people and EVERYONE WATCHING the 1st place winner pays the 2nd place person a 25 dollar dinner. Sure go for it. At least people are knowledgable. But don't do it under the table. Wait, so any economic dealing that players make have to be made public now, as well? That's ridiculous. Its also extraordinarily prevalent (public salaries are very common).
Then tell me the salary of Huk or Idra. Or tell me the salary of your coworkers/Boss. You probably can't tell me :p. Financial matters should stay private.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
On September 02 2011 16:39 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 16:36 Rekrul wrote:
All I have to say is if I was facing Flash in OSL finals 1st place being 20k and 2nd place being 5k and he offered me a deal that no matter the results he gets 19.9k and I get 5.1k I would snap accept his deal and not feel bad about it all LOL.
But seriously: I think two players discussing a deal privately and agreeing on a set prize for each of them is completely fine as long as there is nothing discussed about the games (aka planning shit). There is still a lot of pride and fame value on the line which in many cases is worth more than the prizes. Most progamers really need the money and sometimes they find themselves in situations where making a deal could secure them important life changing money.
But if the players include shit in the deal such as who gets to win etc. then it becomes extremely bad and those faggots should be fucken BANNED.
The problem with this kind of stuff is that there is absolutely no way to stop it if the two are smart about it. All we can ask is that to any potential people doing this to keep the games legit and never let anyone find out about your deals because theres no point. Right. That much is easy to see. The problem is a matter of trust. You can't trust everyone. And the end-spectator must be protected. Otherwise there is no show. And no show means no sponsorship, and that means no further prize winnings.
Fenix and TT1 are going to burn E-SPORTS to the ground.
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On September 02 2011 16:37 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 16:36 Mr. Wiggles wrote:On September 02 2011 16:33 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:29 babylon wrote:On September 02 2011 16:20 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:19 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:On September 02 2011 16:16 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:15 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:On September 02 2011 16:12 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:07 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:
[quote]
Don't even bother. No point arguing with him. I just love the hypocrites in this thread who claim to be all about game integrity and honor but see nothing wrong with someone backing out on their word. Splitting the winnings of a match and backing out of the deal to split the winnings of a match can BOTH be bad. How is it bad? Are people being forced into these deals? You want to tell two people what they can do with their own money. Gotcha. Yes? Don't make backroom deals that invalidate the integrity of the match? Or if you do, make it public knowledge at least. This has to be like, a lot of peoples first medium for competing, I don't get it. And how do these deals invalidate the integrity of the match? Oh wait that's right they don't. It's none of anyone's business what they do with their finances. Of course they do. Knowing that your gonna get paid the same win or lose affects the match. 1st: $100 2nd: $50 The two players agree beforehand that the winner will buy the loser a $25 dinner. Is this immoral? Will this affect the outcome of the match? You tell me. You know what? I have a better response. It doesn't matter. If its known that between the two people and EVERYONE WATCHING the 1st place winner pays the 2nd place person a 25 dollar dinner. Sure go for it. At least people are knowledgable. But don't do it under the table. Wait, so any economic dealing that players make have to be made public now, as well? That's ridiculous. Its also extraordinarily prevalent (public salaries are very common).
This isn't public salaries though, this is anything involving money between two players. What if player A wins in 500$ in a tournament, and player B comes second, and wins 300$. Then, player A goes out to eat with player B, and picks up the 20$ tab 5 times. This means that player A spent 100$ on player B.
However, since that is also the split win value between them, they have to make it public?
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On September 02 2011 16:39 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 16:36 Rekrul wrote:
All I have to say is if I was facing Flash in OSL finals 1st place being 20k and 2nd place being 5k and he offered me a deal that no matter the results he gets 19.9k and I get 5.1k I would snap accept his deal and not feel bad about it all LOL.
But seriously: I think two players discussing a deal privately and agreeing on a set prize for each of them is completely fine as long as there is nothing discussed about the games (aka planning shit). There is still a lot of pride and fame value on the line which in many cases is worth more than the prizes. Most progamers really need the money and sometimes they find themselves in situations where making a deal could secure them important life changing money.
But if the players include shit in the deal such as who gets to win etc. then it becomes extremely bad and those faggots should be fucken BANNED.
The problem with this kind of stuff is that there is absolutely no way to stop it if the two are smart about it. All we can ask is that to any potential people doing this to keep the games legit and never let anyone find out about your deals because theres no point. Right. That much is easy to see. The problem is a matter of trust. You can't trust everyone. And the end-spectator must be protected. Otherwise there is no show. And no show means no sponsorship, and that means no further prize winnings.
I doubt spectators would be as extreme as you portray it lol, I'm pretty sure very very little people would stop watching just from knowing there a possibly a deal behind all of this
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On September 02 2011 16:40 ketomai wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 16:37 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:36 Mr. Wiggles wrote:On September 02 2011 16:33 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:29 babylon wrote:On September 02 2011 16:20 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:19 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:On September 02 2011 16:16 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:15 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:On September 02 2011 16:12 Medrea wrote:
[quote]
Splitting the winnings of a match and backing out of the deal to split the winnings of a match can BOTH be bad. How is it bad? Are people being forced into these deals? You want to tell two people what they can do with their own money. Gotcha. Yes? Don't make backroom deals that invalidate the integrity of the match? Or if you do, make it public knowledge at least. This has to be like, a lot of peoples first medium for competing, I don't get it. And how do these deals invalidate the integrity of the match? Oh wait that's right they don't. It's none of anyone's business what they do with their finances. Of course they do. Knowing that your gonna get paid the same win or lose affects the match. 1st: $100 2nd: $50 The two players agree beforehand that the winner will buy the loser a $25 dinner. Is this immoral? Will this affect the outcome of the match? You tell me. You know what? I have a better response. It doesn't matter. If its known that between the two people and EVERYONE WATCHING the 1st place winner pays the 2nd place person a 25 dollar dinner. Sure go for it. At least people are knowledgable. But don't do it under the table. Wait, so any economic dealing that players make have to be made public now, as well? That's ridiculous. Its also extraordinarily prevalent (public salaries are very common). Then tell me the salary of Huk or Idra. Or tell me the salary of your coworkers/Boss. You probably can't tell me :p. Financial matters should stay private.
Yes I can tell you a lot of the salaries of my co-workers. Or in the very least a bracket. And in many sports salaries are public for a very good reason.
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On September 02 2011 16:40 Rekrul wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 16:39 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:36 Rekrul wrote:
All I have to say is if I was facing Flash in OSL finals 1st place being 20k and 2nd place being 5k and he offered me a deal that no matter the results he gets 19.9k and I get 5.1k I would snap accept his deal and not feel bad about it all LOL.
But seriously: I think two players discussing a deal privately and agreeing on a set prize for each of them is completely fine as long as there is nothing discussed about the games (aka planning shit). There is still a lot of pride and fame value on the line which in many cases is worth more than the prizes. Most progamers really need the money and sometimes they find themselves in situations where making a deal could secure them important life changing money.
But if the players include shit in the deal such as who gets to win etc. then it becomes extremely bad and those faggots should be fucken BANNED.
The problem with this kind of stuff is that there is absolutely no way to stop it if the two are smart about it. All we can ask is that to any potential people doing this to keep the games legit and never let anyone find out about your deals because theres no point. Right. That much is easy to see. The problem is a matter of trust. You can't trust everyone. And the end-spectator must be protected. Otherwise there is no show. And no show means no sponsorship, and that means no further prize winnings. Fenix and TT1 are going to burn E-SPORTS to the ground.
Obviously not from some small tournament. But what about larger ones?
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On September 02 2011 16:29 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 16:20 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:19 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:On September 02 2011 16:16 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:15 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:On September 02 2011 16:12 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:07 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:On September 02 2011 16:01 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 15:59 redFF wrote:
I don't understand how this is even debatable, doing this basically makes a mockery of the tournament, of the fans and of the game, it's stupid and unprofessional. What is even funnier is that people are calling out fenix for not giving TT1 half of the money he won. I mean we've seen some pretty silly drama on tl as of late but this really takes the cake. so you do agree with fenix backing out of a deal once he WON? what if fenix had lost, you really think he would have backed off? Don't even bother. No point arguing with him. I just love the hypocrites in this thread who claim to be all about game integrity and honor but see nothing wrong with someone backing out on their word. Splitting the winnings of a match and backing out of the deal to split the winnings of a match can BOTH be bad. How is it bad? Are people being forced into these deals? You want to tell two people what they can do with their own money. Gotcha. Yes? Don't make backroom deals that invalidate the integrity of the match? Or if you do, make it public knowledge at least. This has to be like, a lot of peoples first medium for competing, I don't get it. And how do these deals invalidate the integrity of the match? Oh wait that's right they don't. It's none of anyone's business what they do with their finances. Of course they do. Knowing that your gonna get paid the same win or lose affects the match. 1st: $100 2nd: $50 The two players agree beforehand that the winner will buy the loser a $25 dinner. Is this immoral? Will this affect the outcome of the match? You tell me.
In that scenario, probably not.
But carrying your numbers over to a different tournament of higher prizes:
1st: $5,000
2nd: $2,500
The two players agree beforehand that the winner will buy the loser a $1,250 dinner. Is this immoral? Will it affect the outcome of the match? You tell me.
As the prizes increase, the likeness of the match being affected also increases. You reducing the prize amounts to small figures doesn't show anything and is certainly not grounds for the rule. It's more the exception.
That's like making a 1-inch gas engine and saying a gallon of gas will run it continuously for months so you've cured oil dependency. As if that's going to do anything once the size of the engine increases.
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On September 02 2011 16:40 Rekrul wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 16:39 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:36 Rekrul wrote:
All I have to say is if I was facing Flash in OSL finals 1st place being 20k and 2nd place being 5k and he offered me a deal that no matter the results he gets 19.9k and I get 5.1k I would snap accept his deal and not feel bad about it all LOL.
But seriously: I think two players discussing a deal privately and agreeing on a set prize for each of them is completely fine as long as there is nothing discussed about the games (aka planning shit). There is still a lot of pride and fame value on the line which in many cases is worth more than the prizes. Most progamers really need the money and sometimes they find themselves in situations where making a deal could secure them important life changing money.
But if the players include shit in the deal such as who gets to win etc. then it becomes extremely bad and those faggots should be fucken BANNED.
The problem with this kind of stuff is that there is absolutely no way to stop it if the two are smart about it. All we can ask is that to any potential people doing this to keep the games legit and never let anyone find out about your deals because theres no point. Right. That much is easy to see. The problem is a matter of trust. You can't trust everyone. And the end-spectator must be protected. Otherwise there is no show. And no show means no sponsorship, and that means no further prize winnings. Fenix and TT1 are going to burn E-SPORTS to the ground.
hahaha.
You, sir, just won the thread.
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On September 02 2011 16:42 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 16:40 ketomai wrote:On September 02 2011 16:37 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:36 Mr. Wiggles wrote:On September 02 2011 16:33 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:29 babylon wrote:On September 02 2011 16:20 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:19 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:On September 02 2011 16:16 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:15 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:
[quote]
How is it bad? Are people being forced into these deals? You want to tell two people what they can do with their own money.
Gotcha. Yes? Don't make backroom deals that invalidate the integrity of the match? Or if you do, make it public knowledge at least. This has to be like, a lot of peoples first medium for competing, I don't get it. And how do these deals invalidate the integrity of the match? Oh wait that's right they don't. It's none of anyone's business what they do with their finances. Of course they do. Knowing that your gonna get paid the same win or lose affects the match. 1st: $100 2nd: $50 The two players agree beforehand that the winner will buy the loser a $25 dinner. Is this immoral? Will this affect the outcome of the match? You tell me. You know what? I have a better response. It doesn't matter. If its known that between the two people and EVERYONE WATCHING the 1st place winner pays the 2nd place person a 25 dollar dinner. Sure go for it. At least people are knowledgable. But don't do it under the table. Wait, so any economic dealing that players make have to be made public now, as well? That's ridiculous. Its also extraordinarily prevalent (public salaries are very common). Then tell me the salary of Huk or Idra. Or tell me the salary of your coworkers/Boss. You probably can't tell me :p. Financial matters should stay private. Yes I can tell you a lot of the salaries of my co-workers. Or in the very least a bracket. And in many sports salaries are public for a very good reason.
clearly you won't change your mind about this, if you're not happy about it stop watching it, I'm going to keep watching and so are thousands of other people
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On September 02 2011 16:41 ReignFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 16:39 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:36 Rekrul wrote:
All I have to say is if I was facing Flash in OSL finals 1st place being 20k and 2nd place being 5k and he offered me a deal that no matter the results he gets 19.9k and I get 5.1k I would snap accept his deal and not feel bad about it all LOL.
But seriously: I think two players discussing a deal privately and agreeing on a set prize for each of them is completely fine as long as there is nothing discussed about the games (aka planning shit). There is still a lot of pride and fame value on the line which in many cases is worth more than the prizes. Most progamers really need the money and sometimes they find themselves in situations where making a deal could secure them important life changing money.
But if the players include shit in the deal such as who gets to win etc. then it becomes extremely bad and those faggots should be fucken BANNED.
The problem with this kind of stuff is that there is absolutely no way to stop it if the two are smart about it. All we can ask is that to any potential people doing this to keep the games legit and never let anyone find out about your deals because theres no point. Right. That much is easy to see. The problem is a matter of trust. You can't trust everyone. And the end-spectator must be protected. Otherwise there is no show. And no show means no sponsorship, and that means no further prize winnings. I doubt spectators would be as extreme as you portray it lol, I'm pretty sure very very little people would stop watching just from knowing there a possibly a deal behind all of this
Exactly. Plenty of people watch destiny's, idra's, dragon's streams etc. with nothing on the line.
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On September 02 2011 16:42 luRx_ wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 16:29 babylon wrote:On September 02 2011 16:20 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:19 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:On September 02 2011 16:16 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:15 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:On September 02 2011 16:12 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:07 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:On September 02 2011 16:01 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 15:59 redFF wrote:
I don't understand how this is even debatable, doing this basically makes a mockery of the tournament, of the fans and of the game, it's stupid and unprofessional. What is even funnier is that people are calling out fenix for not giving TT1 half of the money he won. I mean we've seen some pretty silly drama on tl as of late but this really takes the cake. so you do agree with fenix backing out of a deal once he WON? what if fenix had lost, you really think he would have backed off? Don't even bother. No point arguing with him. I just love the hypocrites in this thread who claim to be all about game integrity and honor but see nothing wrong with someone backing out on their word. Splitting the winnings of a match and backing out of the deal to split the winnings of a match can BOTH be bad. How is it bad? Are people being forced into these deals? You want to tell two people what they can do with their own money. Gotcha. Yes? Don't make backroom deals that invalidate the integrity of the match? Or if you do, make it public knowledge at least. This has to be like, a lot of peoples first medium for competing, I don't get it. And how do these deals invalidate the integrity of the match? Oh wait that's right they don't. It's none of anyone's business what they do with their finances. Of course they do. Knowing that your gonna get paid the same win or lose affects the match. 1st: $100 2nd: $50 The two players agree beforehand that the winner will buy the loser a $25 dinner. Is this immoral? Will this affect the outcome of the match? You tell me. In that scenario, probably not. But carrying your numbers over to a different tournament of higher prizes: 1st: $5,000 2nd: $2,500 The two players agree beforehand that the winner will buy the loser a $1,250 dinner. Is this immoral? Will it affect the outcome of the match? You tell me. As the prizes increase, the likeness of the match being affected also increases. You reducing the prize amounts to small figures doesn't show anything and is certainly not grounds for the rule. It's more the exception. That's like making a 1-inch gas engine and saying a gallon of gas will run it continuously for months so you've cured oil dependency. As if that's going to do anything once the size of the engine increases.
Damn that's a nice dinner.
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Italy12247 Posts
I was pretty contrary and pissed when i first read about it, but if you think about it more it's not a big deal. Since most of a player's money doesn't come from tournament winnings (usually), but from team salary, streaming and sponsoring, the amount of money he gets in a given tournament isn't particularly big. Viceversa, winning a tournament gives you more fans, attention, exposition, and thanks to accomplishments (hope this is a word ^^) you can demand a higher salary from your team.
Long story short: people that say that splitting prize money means that gamers will throw away games are either ignoring one part of the whole picture, or said gamer isn't thinking about the benefits of a first place vs a second in the long run.
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On September 02 2011 16:30 luRx_ wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 16:25 Excludos wrote:
Good luck regulating something that is out of your hands once the event is over. I don't think its legally possible to tell someone what they can do with their price money once they have acquired it. But they can easily dictate who can and cannot participate in future events based on what people did with prize money.
I am sorry, but this post is incredibly ignorant.
There is NO WAY to tell what someone does with the money they win.
One pro could walk over to the other literally 5 minutes after the match and hand him an amount = to half of the prize earnings. All he would have to say is "O i owed him money for X" or "O its his birthday and I am very generous" "O he loaned me money a couple years ago, i have been meaning to pay him back for months. This is money i made doing lessons."
Seriously. HOW DO YOU THINK MONITORING THIS IS POSSIBLE?
"OMG THATS IT! HE IS BANNED FROM ALL MLG's in the future!! He spent his tournament winnings on a moped, and gave the moped to John, for John's birthday! SCANDAL!!!"
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On September 02 2011 16:40 Rekrul wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 16:39 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:36 Rekrul wrote:
All I have to say is if I was facing Flash in OSL finals 1st place being 20k and 2nd place being 5k and he offered me a deal that no matter the results he gets 19.9k and I get 5.1k I would snap accept his deal and not feel bad about it all LOL.
But seriously: I think two players discussing a deal privately and agreeing on a set prize for each of them is completely fine as long as there is nothing discussed about the games (aka planning shit). There is still a lot of pride and fame value on the line which in many cases is worth more than the prizes. Most progamers really need the money and sometimes they find themselves in situations where making a deal could secure them important life changing money.
But if the players include shit in the deal such as who gets to win etc. then it becomes extremely bad and those faggots should be fucken BANNED.
The problem with this kind of stuff is that there is absolutely no way to stop it if the two are smart about it. All we can ask is that to any potential people doing this to keep the games legit and never let anyone find out about your deals because theres no point. Right. That much is easy to see. The problem is a matter of trust. You can't trust everyone. And the end-spectator must be protected. Otherwise there is no show. And no show means no sponsorship, and that means no further prize winnings. Fenix and TT1 are going to burn E-SPORTS to the ground.
ZOMG LOL. Whats funny is the rager tried to make an intelligent response to this. Which then makes this line even funnier.
Seriously tho, to touch on something Rekrul said earlier.
Even if both players go into the finals thinking "Either way im getting X"
They are still competing for first place.
Everyone knows where all of the fame/attention goes.
And their levels of Fame/attention are where the real money comes from anyways. So the player who wins still has a lot on the line. Just instead of his 2k in prize money, he has the potential to increase his salary/sponsorship money for WAY more.
The competition will still always be there.
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Lots of comments about people being able to do whatever they want with their money after the tournament. It's not about what happens after the games are played, it's the agreement entered into before the games are played that affects the integrity of the event.
On September 02 2011 16:36 Rekrul wrote:
The problem with this kind of stuff is that there is absolutely no way to stop it if the two are smart about it. All we can ask is that to any potential people doing this to keep the games legit and never let anyone find out about your deals because theres no point.
It seems to me that your view is that you realize it's against the rules, but you're ok with it as long as nobody finds out ?
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On September 02 2011 16:46 MaestroSC wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 16:30 luRx_ wrote:On September 02 2011 16:25 Excludos wrote:
Good luck regulating something that is out of your hands once the event is over. I don't think its legally possible to tell someone what they can do with their price money once they have acquired it. But they can easily dictate who can and cannot participate in future events based on what people did with prize money. I am sorry, but this post is incredibly ignorant. There is NO WAY to tell what someone does with the money they win. One pro could walk over to the other literally 5 minutes after the match and hand him an amount = to half of the prize earnings. All he would have to say is "O i owed him money for X" or "O its his birthday and I am very generous" "O he loaned me money a couple years ago, i have been meaning to pay him back for months. This is money i made doing lessons." Seriously. HOW DO YOU THINK MONITORING THIS IS POSSIBLE? "OMG THATS IT! HE IS BANNED FROM ALL MLG's in the future!! He spent his tournament winnings on a moped, and gave the moped to John, for John's birthday! SCANDAL!!!"
The only way they could do anything about it is if the players flat out said their was a deal. I wouldn't want to support a tournament that banned people for making deals. It's morally wrong to tell people what they can and can't do with their money.
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On September 02 2011 16:43 ReignFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 16:42 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:40 ketomai wrote:On September 02 2011 16:37 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:36 Mr. Wiggles wrote:On September 02 2011 16:33 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:29 babylon wrote:On September 02 2011 16:20 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:19 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:On September 02 2011 16:16 Medrea wrote:
[quote]
Yes? Don't make backroom deals that invalidate the integrity of the match? Or if you do, make it public knowledge at least.
This has to be like, a lot of peoples first medium for competing, I don't get it.
And how do these deals invalidate the integrity of the match? Oh wait that's right they don't. It's none of anyone's business what they do with their finances. Of course they do. Knowing that your gonna get paid the same win or lose affects the match. 1st: $100 2nd: $50 The two players agree beforehand that the winner will buy the loser a $25 dinner. Is this immoral? Will this affect the outcome of the match? You tell me. You know what? I have a better response. It doesn't matter. If its known that between the two people and EVERYONE WATCHING the 1st place winner pays the 2nd place person a 25 dollar dinner. Sure go for it. At least people are knowledgable. But don't do it under the table. Wait, so any economic dealing that players make have to be made public now, as well? That's ridiculous. Its also extraordinarily prevalent (public salaries are very common). Then tell me the salary of Huk or Idra. Or tell me the salary of your coworkers/Boss. You probably can't tell me :p. Financial matters should stay private. Yes I can tell you a lot of the salaries of my co-workers. Or in the very least a bracket. And in many sports salaries are public for a very good reason. clearly you won't change your mind about this, if you're not happy about it stop watching it, I'm going to keep watching and so are thousands of other people
Hmmm. Maybe there is a better outlook than what meets the eye.
Smaller tournaments are more vulnerable to this kind of action. Because they have less intangibles to offer. Correct?
Larger tournaments are probably more immune as the intangible benefits start to really outweigh the earnings.
To be truly honest. I'm not 100 percent against the split across all tournaments large and small. I am, however, 100 percent against it being kept a secret from me however, it just rubs me the wrong way. I would like to at least know that nothing is on the line for these two players, and I would probably be ok with it to some degree.
I am not being unreasonable I think.
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On September 02 2011 16:47 Kaitlin wrote:Lots of comments about people being able to do whatever they want with their money after the tournament. It's not about what happens after the games are played, it's the agreement entered into before the games are played that affects the integrity of the event. Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 16:36 Rekrul wrote:
The problem with this kind of stuff is that there is absolutely no way to stop it if the two are smart about it. All we can ask is that to any potential people doing this to keep the games legit and never let anyone find out about your deals because theres no point. It seems to me that your view is that you realize it's against the rules, but you're ok with it as long as nobody finds out ?
what is against the rule is planning a match beforehand, not splitting the money
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On September 02 2011 16:47 Kaitlin wrote:Lots of comments about people being able to do whatever they want with their money after the tournament. It's not about what happens after the games are played, it's the agreement entered into before the games are played that affects the integrity of the event. Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 16:36 Rekrul wrote:
The problem with this kind of stuff is that there is absolutely no way to stop it if the two are smart about it. All we can ask is that to any potential people doing this to keep the games legit and never let anyone find out about your deals because theres no point. It seems to me that your view is that you realize it's against the rules, but you're ok with it as long as nobody finds out ?
His view is that it is LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE to regulate. And that it really doesnt affect the games as much as some people think. And that it IS GOING TO HAPPEN. So crying and whining about it is useless.
And I dont think he said it was against the rules, but that some stuck up ignorant people, might find it morally incorrect.
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On September 02 2011 16:50 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 16:43 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 16:42 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:40 ketomai wrote:On September 02 2011 16:37 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:36 Mr. Wiggles wrote:On September 02 2011 16:33 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:29 babylon wrote:On September 02 2011 16:20 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:19 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:
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And how do these deals invalidate the integrity of the match? Oh wait that's right they don't.
It's none of anyone's business what they do with their finances.
Of course they do. Knowing that your gonna get paid the same win or lose affects the match. 1st: $100 2nd: $50 The two players agree beforehand that the winner will buy the loser a $25 dinner. Is this immoral? Will this affect the outcome of the match? You tell me. You know what? I have a better response. It doesn't matter. If its known that between the two people and EVERYONE WATCHING the 1st place winner pays the 2nd place person a 25 dollar dinner. Sure go for it. At least people are knowledgable. But don't do it under the table. Wait, so any economic dealing that players make have to be made public now, as well? That's ridiculous. Its also extraordinarily prevalent (public salaries are very common). Then tell me the salary of Huk or Idra. Or tell me the salary of your coworkers/Boss. You probably can't tell me :p. Financial matters should stay private. Yes I can tell you a lot of the salaries of my co-workers. Or in the very least a bracket. And in many sports salaries are public for a very good reason. clearly you won't change your mind about this, if you're not happy about it stop watching it, I'm going to keep watching and so are thousands of other people Hmmm. Maybe there is a better outlook than what meets the eye. Smaller tournaments are more vulnerable to this kind of action. Because they have less intangibles to offer. Correct? Larger tournaments are probably more immune as the intangible benefits start to really outweigh the earnings. To be truly honest. I'm not 100 percent against the split across all tournaments large and small. I am, however, 100 percent against it being kept a secret from me however, it just rubs me the wrong way. I would like to at least know that nothing is on the line for these two players, and I would probably be ok with it to some degree. I am not being unreasonable I think.
Well I think it is fairly unreasonable to ask what they do with their money, It's really not gonna change anything for you... really..
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EPT
