|
On September 02 2011 16:20 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 16:18 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 16:16 eggs wrote:
Everyone so far that's brought up Nestea and Losira has only discussed the prize winnings. What bothers me the most about it is that he made history be being the first Code S winner to go undefeated. If it was pre-arranged to have Nestea 4-0 Losira, that is a big deal to me.
I can still remember game 4, where Nestea 6 pool all-in'd against Losira's hatch-first, and now I just have this lingering doubt that it was as staged as a WWE Championship match, and it sucks. That was a really exciting game at the time and this "Deal Making" talk ruins it. no most likely nothing was staged, if they agreed on splitting X amount of money it doesn't mean they talked about the games you can agree to split money and then play to win, nothing is staged, the prize is just different, the games are the same I would still like a regulation in place. Asking for the competitors moral compass alone to act as a guiderail is clearly too much for some people.
"Heres your 5000usd price money! Now, you can use it for whatever you want to, except for these things, which on TL, is considered hurting the integrity of esports. 1. You are not allowed to give away all or portions of the price money to a teammate and/or friend who has participated in the same tournament.."
Good luck regulating something that is out of your hands once the event is over. I don't think its legally possible to tell someone what they can do with their price money once they have acquired it.
|
On September 02 2011 16:22 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 16:16 eggs wrote:
Everyone so far that's brought up Nestea and Losira has only discussed the prize winnings. What bothers me the most about it is that he made history be being the first Code S winner to go undefeated. If it was pre-arranged to have Nestea 4-0 Losira, that is a big deal to me.
I can still remember game 4, where Nestea 6 pool all-in'd against Losira's hatch-first, and now I just have this lingering doubt that it was as staged as a WWE Championship match, and it sucks. That was a really exciting game at the time and this "Deal Making" talk ruins it. That's ridiculous. Match-fixing is not deal-making. Losira lost fair and square, and none of it was staged. Anyways, why the fuck would they stage a 4-0 instead of a 4-3? Think, people. It's probable that NesTea didn't even split with Losira because he was the heavy favorite, and so would gain very little from making a deal. (Of course, if it were MVP instead of Losira, it would be dumb not to split.) If you object to it so much on principle, then don't watch and withdraw your support. Problem solved.
That's just what they want you to think. There's no way they would stage a 4-0! 
Anyways they could have split the money 70/30 or 75/25 etc. It doesn't always have to be 50/50.
|
On September 02 2011 16:23 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 16:20 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 16:17 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:16 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 16:14 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:13 babylon wrote:On September 02 2011 16:05 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:01 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 15:59 redFF wrote:
I don't understand how this is even debatable, doing this basically makes a mockery of the tournament, of the fans and of the game, it's stupid and unprofessional. What is even funnier is that people are calling out fenix for not giving TT1 half of the money he won. I mean we've seen some pretty silly drama on tl as of late but this really takes the cake. so you do agree with fenix backing out of a deal once he WON? what if fenix had lost, you really think he would have backed off? How bout we just don't match fix or win split or whatever you wanna call it to begin with. Sounds ok to me. If you're so unhappy about it, then just quit watching professional SC2, as you said you would before. I kind of wish Rekrul would show up and give us a dose of reality, as per usual. He usually flocks to drama like this. Where is he, dammit? When teammates are involved yeah I prob won't. And it'll color the rest of my viewing experience from here on out until someone puts there foot down on it. im sorry man it has happened before and will keep happening, and you will most likely keep watching just like santa claus doesn't exist and you probably still celebrate christmas So we should just condone it and let it happen? Absolutely not. absolutely, cuz it isn't wrong, you think it is, but it is not you really think everybody would do it if they thought it was wrong? Not everybody does it though. And most all of them that do keep a secret for a reason. The reason is obvious.
yes and people are still gonna keep it a secret, just know that it does happen, I'm sorry if I burst your bubble
|
I'm not sure if its incredibly hilarious or incredibly sad that now-a-days people are willing to completely sell their dignity for something as small as $2,500. We're not talking huge amounts here. Why ruin friendships (or anything) over it. Someone reluctant to hand over $500,000 of a million dollar prize is somewhat understandable I guess. But a couple grand?
People make monetary deals all the time in life before ACTUALLY thinking about what exactly they're agreeing to. Then its time to put their money where their mouth is and shit changes quicker than you could believe. Suddenly its "what... I'm going to have to give up half of this money... *gears in head start turning and the thought of them only getting half of the money instead of all of it makes their stomach turn*" and they say screw it and go the greedy way. Why people don't fully think things through and think "ok... if I agree to this, that means if I win I'm going to have to give up half the money... am I really going to want to do that?" PRIOR to agreeing is beyond me.
The world is full of greedy people. One more being exposed is hardly an event.
Money is the root of all evil.
|
On September 02 2011 16:20 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 16:19 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:On September 02 2011 16:16 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:15 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:On September 02 2011 16:12 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:07 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:On September 02 2011 16:01 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 15:59 redFF wrote:
I don't understand how this is even debatable, doing this basically makes a mockery of the tournament, of the fans and of the game, it's stupid and unprofessional. What is even funnier is that people are calling out fenix for not giving TT1 half of the money he won. I mean we've seen some pretty silly drama on tl as of late but this really takes the cake. so you do agree with fenix backing out of a deal once he WON? what if fenix had lost, you really think he would have backed off? Don't even bother. No point arguing with him. I just love the hypocrites in this thread who claim to be all about game integrity and honor but see nothing wrong with someone backing out on their word. Splitting the winnings of a match and backing out of the deal to split the winnings of a match can BOTH be bad. How is it bad? Are people being forced into these deals? You want to tell two people what they can do with their own money. Gotcha. Yes? Don't make backroom deals that invalidate the integrity of the match? Or if you do, make it public knowledge at least. This has to be like, a lot of peoples first medium for competing, I don't get it. And how do these deals invalidate the integrity of the match? Oh wait that's right they don't. It's none of anyone's business what they do with their finances. Of course they do. Knowing that your gonna get paid the same win or lose affects the match.
1st: $100
2nd: $50
The two players agree beforehand that the winner will buy the loser a $25 dinner. Is this immoral? Will this affect the outcome of the match? You tell me.
|
On September 02 2011 16:29 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 16:20 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:19 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:On September 02 2011 16:16 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:15 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:On September 02 2011 16:12 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:07 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:On September 02 2011 16:01 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 15:59 redFF wrote:
I don't understand how this is even debatable, doing this basically makes a mockery of the tournament, of the fans and of the game, it's stupid and unprofessional. What is even funnier is that people are calling out fenix for not giving TT1 half of the money he won. I mean we've seen some pretty silly drama on tl as of late but this really takes the cake. so you do agree with fenix backing out of a deal once he WON? what if fenix had lost, you really think he would have backed off? Don't even bother. No point arguing with him. I just love the hypocrites in this thread who claim to be all about game integrity and honor but see nothing wrong with someone backing out on their word. Splitting the winnings of a match and backing out of the deal to split the winnings of a match can BOTH be bad. How is it bad? Are people being forced into these deals? You want to tell two people what they can do with their own money. Gotcha. Yes? Don't make backroom deals that invalidate the integrity of the match? Or if you do, make it public knowledge at least. This has to be like, a lot of peoples first medium for competing, I don't get it. And how do these deals invalidate the integrity of the match? Oh wait that's right they don't. It's none of anyone's business what they do with their finances. Of course they do. Knowing that your gonna get paid the same win or lose affects the match. 1st: $100 2nd: $50 The two players agree beforehand that the winner will buy the loser a $25 dinner. Is this immoral? Will this affect the outcome of the match? You tell me.
How many people are watching?
|
On September 02 2011 16:25 Excludos wrote:
Good luck regulating something that is out of your hands once the event is over. I don't think its legally possible to tell someone what they can do with their price money once they have acquired it.
But they can easily dictate who can and cannot participate in future events based on what people did with prize money.
|
On September 02 2011 16:29 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 16:20 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:19 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:On September 02 2011 16:16 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:15 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:On September 02 2011 16:12 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:07 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:On September 02 2011 16:01 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 15:59 redFF wrote:
I don't understand how this is even debatable, doing this basically makes a mockery of the tournament, of the fans and of the game, it's stupid and unprofessional. What is even funnier is that people are calling out fenix for not giving TT1 half of the money he won. I mean we've seen some pretty silly drama on tl as of late but this really takes the cake. so you do agree with fenix backing out of a deal once he WON? what if fenix had lost, you really think he would have backed off? Don't even bother. No point arguing with him. I just love the hypocrites in this thread who claim to be all about game integrity and honor but see nothing wrong with someone backing out on their word. Splitting the winnings of a match and backing out of the deal to split the winnings of a match can BOTH be bad. How is it bad? Are people being forced into these deals? You want to tell two people what they can do with their own money. Gotcha. Yes? Don't make backroom deals that invalidate the integrity of the match? Or if you do, make it public knowledge at least. This has to be like, a lot of peoples first medium for competing, I don't get it. And how do these deals invalidate the integrity of the match? Oh wait that's right they don't. It's none of anyone's business what they do with their finances. Of course they do. Knowing that your gonna get paid the same win or lose affects the match. 1st: $100 2nd: $50 The two players agree beforehand that the winner will buy the loser a $25 dinner. Is this immoral? Will this affect the outcome of the match? You tell me.
Exactly this. People should have more integrity than just "I will gain the same whetever I win or lose this match. So fuck this tournament, I'll just rush to mothership off one base!". I don't care about my fans!". If they play their hearth out, does it matter if they split the price money so they can both continue playing the game they love?
|
On September 02 2011 16:29 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 16:20 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:19 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:On September 02 2011 16:16 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:15 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:On September 02 2011 16:12 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:07 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:On September 02 2011 16:01 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 15:59 redFF wrote:
I don't understand how this is even debatable, doing this basically makes a mockery of the tournament, of the fans and of the game, it's stupid and unprofessional. What is even funnier is that people are calling out fenix for not giving TT1 half of the money he won. I mean we've seen some pretty silly drama on tl as of late but this really takes the cake. so you do agree with fenix backing out of a deal once he WON? what if fenix had lost, you really think he would have backed off? Don't even bother. No point arguing with him. I just love the hypocrites in this thread who claim to be all about game integrity and honor but see nothing wrong with someone backing out on their word. Splitting the winnings of a match and backing out of the deal to split the winnings of a match can BOTH be bad. How is it bad? Are people being forced into these deals? You want to tell two people what they can do with their own money. Gotcha. Yes? Don't make backroom deals that invalidate the integrity of the match? Or if you do, make it public knowledge at least. This has to be like, a lot of peoples first medium for competing, I don't get it. And how do these deals invalidate the integrity of the match? Oh wait that's right they don't. It's none of anyone's business what they do with their finances. Of course they do. Knowing that your gonna get paid the same win or lose affects the match. 1st: $100 2nd: $50 The two players agree beforehand that the winner will buy the loser a $25 dinner. Is this immoral? Will this affect the outcome of the match? You tell me.
You know what? I have a better response. It doesn't matter.
If its known that between the two people and EVERYONE WATCHING the 1st place winner pays the 2nd place person a 25 dollar dinner. Sure go for it. At least people are knowledgable. But don't do it under the table.
|
On September 02 2011 16:32 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 16:29 babylon wrote:On September 02 2011 16:20 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:19 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:On September 02 2011 16:16 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:15 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:On September 02 2011 16:12 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:07 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:On September 02 2011 16:01 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 15:59 redFF wrote:
I don't understand how this is even debatable, doing this basically makes a mockery of the tournament, of the fans and of the game, it's stupid and unprofessional. What is even funnier is that people are calling out fenix for not giving TT1 half of the money he won. I mean we've seen some pretty silly drama on tl as of late but this really takes the cake. so you do agree with fenix backing out of a deal once he WON? what if fenix had lost, you really think he would have backed off? Don't even bother. No point arguing with him. I just love the hypocrites in this thread who claim to be all about game integrity and honor but see nothing wrong with someone backing out on their word. Splitting the winnings of a match and backing out of the deal to split the winnings of a match can BOTH be bad. How is it bad? Are people being forced into these deals? You want to tell two people what they can do with their own money. Gotcha. Yes? Don't make backroom deals that invalidate the integrity of the match? Or if you do, make it public knowledge at least. This has to be like, a lot of peoples first medium for competing, I don't get it. And how do these deals invalidate the integrity of the match? Oh wait that's right they don't. It's none of anyone's business what they do with their finances. Of course they do. Knowing that your gonna get paid the same win or lose affects the match. 1st: $100 2nd: $50 The two players agree beforehand that the winner will buy the loser a $25 dinner. Is this immoral? Will this affect the outcome of the match? You tell me. Exactly this. People should have more integrity than just "I will gain the same whetever I win or lose this match. So fuck this tournament, I'll just rush to mothership off one base!". I don't care about my fans!". If they play their hearth out, does it matter if they split the price money so they can both continue playing the game they love?
They should. Some do and some don't. These are starcraft players we're talking about. Not samurai.
|
I don't think there's a way to stop players from doing this, and I don't think it's a big deal, either.
Players can do what they want with their own money, once it's in their hands. There's nothing you can do to stop them.
If tournaments think this is such a big deal, what will happen is that there will be greater disparity in the prize distribution. They just have to figure out the ratio, where winning and keeping the money is a whole lot better than splitting, because a split would be over half of it, or some such number. Tourneys just need to find the proper balance in prize distribution, to dissuade players who aren't on the same team from doing it, and only if they have a problem with it themselves.
Also, there is still incentive to take the first place at a tournament even if you are splitting the winnings. It's more prestigious to have won, and looks better to sponsors than being the king of Silver, so in the long term, it's better to actually try to win, than just throw the games and split the money. I'm sure there's other reasons for wanting to win as well.
Also, for all the angry people, sounds like you need ESPORTS-Brand Torches and Pitchforks.
|
On September 02 2011 16:30 luRx_ wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 16:25 Excludos wrote:
Good luck regulating something that is out of your hands once the event is over. I don't think its legally possible to tell someone what they can do with their price money once they have acquired it. But they can easily dictate who can and cannot participate in future events based on what people did with prize money.
I'm sure GSL is going to refuse Boxer to play in the future because he shares some of his price money with a teammate. You have to realize that most tournaments want as many top pro players in it as possible. They can't just decide to not invite a top player, because that will hurt their viewership too much.
|
On September 02 2011 16:30 luRx_ wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 16:25 Excludos wrote:
Good luck regulating something that is out of your hands once the event is over. I don't think its legally possible to tell someone what they can do with their price money once they have acquired it. But they can easily dictate who can and cannot participate in future events based on what people did with prize money.
how are they going to know what they did with their prize money, should they also tell them hey here's your 5000$, but you can't buy drugs with it cuz it's illegal
i mean come on lol
you can't regulate this
|
Korea (South)17174 Posts
All I have to say is if I was facing Flash in OSL finals 1st place being 20k and 2nd place being 5k and he offered me a deal that no matter the results he gets 19.9k and I get 5.1k I would snap accept his deal and not feel bad about it at all LOL.
But seriously: I think two players discussing a deal privately and agreeing on a set prize for each of them is completely fine as long as there is nothing discussed about the games (aka planning shit). There is still a lot of pride and fame value on the line which in many cases is worth more than the prizes. Most progamers really need the money and sometimes they find themselves in situations where making a deal could secure them important life changing money.
But if the players include shit in the deal such as who gets to win etc. then it becomes extremely bad and those faggots should be fucken BANNED.
The problem with this kind of stuff is that there is absolutely no way to stop it if the two are smart about it. All we can ask is that to any potential people doing this to keep the games legit and never let anyone find out about your deals because theres no point.
|
On September 02 2011 16:33 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 16:29 babylon wrote:On September 02 2011 16:20 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:19 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:On September 02 2011 16:16 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:15 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:On September 02 2011 16:12 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:07 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:On September 02 2011 16:01 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 15:59 redFF wrote:
I don't understand how this is even debatable, doing this basically makes a mockery of the tournament, of the fans and of the game, it's stupid and unprofessional. What is even funnier is that people are calling out fenix for not giving TT1 half of the money he won. I mean we've seen some pretty silly drama on tl as of late but this really takes the cake. so you do agree with fenix backing out of a deal once he WON? what if fenix had lost, you really think he would have backed off? Don't even bother. No point arguing with him. I just love the hypocrites in this thread who claim to be all about game integrity and honor but see nothing wrong with someone backing out on their word. Splitting the winnings of a match and backing out of the deal to split the winnings of a match can BOTH be bad. How is it bad? Are people being forced into these deals? You want to tell two people what they can do with their own money. Gotcha. Yes? Don't make backroom deals that invalidate the integrity of the match? Or if you do, make it public knowledge at least. This has to be like, a lot of peoples first medium for competing, I don't get it. And how do these deals invalidate the integrity of the match? Oh wait that's right they don't. It's none of anyone's business what they do with their finances. Of course they do. Knowing that your gonna get paid the same win or lose affects the match. 1st: $100 2nd: $50 The two players agree beforehand that the winner will buy the loser a $25 dinner. Is this immoral? Will this affect the outcome of the match? You tell me. You know what? I have a better response. It doesn't matter. If its known that between the two people and EVERYONE WATCHING the 1st place winner pays the 2nd place person a 25 dollar dinner. Sure go for it. At least people are knowledgable. But don't do it under the table.
Wait, so any economic dealing that players make have to be made public now, as well? That's ridiculous.
|
On September 02 2011 16:33 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 16:29 babylon wrote:On September 02 2011 16:20 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:19 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:On September 02 2011 16:16 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:15 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:On September 02 2011 16:12 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:07 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:On September 02 2011 16:01 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 15:59 redFF wrote:
I don't understand how this is even debatable, doing this basically makes a mockery of the tournament, of the fans and of the game, it's stupid and unprofessional. What is even funnier is that people are calling out fenix for not giving TT1 half of the money he won. I mean we've seen some pretty silly drama on tl as of late but this really takes the cake. so you do agree with fenix backing out of a deal once he WON? what if fenix had lost, you really think he would have backed off? Don't even bother. No point arguing with him. I just love the hypocrites in this thread who claim to be all about game integrity and honor but see nothing wrong with someone backing out on their word. Splitting the winnings of a match and backing out of the deal to split the winnings of a match can BOTH be bad. How is it bad? Are people being forced into these deals? You want to tell two people what they can do with their own money. Gotcha. Yes? Don't make backroom deals that invalidate the integrity of the match? Or if you do, make it public knowledge at least. This has to be like, a lot of peoples first medium for competing, I don't get it. And how do these deals invalidate the integrity of the match? Oh wait that's right they don't. It's none of anyone's business what they do with their finances. Of course they do. Knowing that your gonna get paid the same win or lose affects the match. 1st: $100 2nd: $50 The two players agree beforehand that the winner will buy the loser a $25 dinner. Is this immoral? Will this affect the outcome of the match? You tell me. You know what? I have a better response. It doesn't matter. If its known that between the two people and EVERYONE WATCHING the 1st place winner pays the 2nd place person a 25 dollar dinner. Sure go for it. At least people are knowledgable. But don't do it under the table.
Should there be a Community News thread (like the monthly Tournament Round Up)that announces every micro transaction that takes place after a tournament? Should the winner and the runner-up declare their prior arrangements during the interviews after the games? Why do you even need to know their personal arrangements?
|
On September 02 2011 16:36 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 16:33 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:29 babylon wrote:On September 02 2011 16:20 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:19 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:On September 02 2011 16:16 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:15 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:On September 02 2011 16:12 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 16:07 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:On September 02 2011 16:01 ReignFayth wrote:
[quote]
so you do agree with fenix backing out of a deal once he WON?
what if fenix had lost, you really think he would have backed off? Don't even bother. No point arguing with him. I just love the hypocrites in this thread who claim to be all about game integrity and honor but see nothing wrong with someone backing out on their word. Splitting the winnings of a match and backing out of the deal to split the winnings of a match can BOTH be bad. How is it bad? Are people being forced into these deals? You want to tell two people what they can do with their own money. Gotcha. Yes? Don't make backroom deals that invalidate the integrity of the match? Or if you do, make it public knowledge at least. This has to be like, a lot of peoples first medium for competing, I don't get it. And how do these deals invalidate the integrity of the match? Oh wait that's right they don't. It's none of anyone's business what they do with their finances. Of course they do. Knowing that your gonna get paid the same win or lose affects the match. 1st: $100 2nd: $50 The two players agree beforehand that the winner will buy the loser a $25 dinner. Is this immoral? Will this affect the outcome of the match? You tell me. You know what? I have a better response. It doesn't matter. If its known that between the two people and EVERYONE WATCHING the 1st place winner pays the 2nd place person a 25 dollar dinner. Sure go for it. At least people are knowledgable. But don't do it under the table. Wait, so any economic dealing that players make have to be made public now, as well? That's ridiculous.
Its also extraordinarily prevalent (public salaries are very common).
|
its totally acceptable to do the split price thing with somebody you know in a tournament. Thats what i used to do when i play highest level card games.
|
On September 02 2011 16:36 Rekrul wrote:
All I have to say is if I was facing Flash in OSL finals 1st place being 20k and 2nd place being 5k and he offered me a deal that no matter the results he gets 19.9k and I get 5.1k I would snap accept his deal and not feel bad about it all LOL.
But seriously: I think two players discussing a deal privately and agreeing on a set prize for each of them is completely fine as long as there is nothing discussed about the games (aka planning shit). There is still a lot of pride and fame value on the line which in many cases is worth more than the prizes. Most progamers really need the money and sometimes they find themselves in situations where making a deal could secure them important life changing money.
But if the players include shit in the deal such as who gets to win etc. then it becomes extremely bad and those faggots should be fucken BANNED.
The problem with this kind of stuff is that there is absolutely no way to stop it if the two are smart about it. All we can ask is that to any potential people doing this to keep the games legit and never let anyone find out about your deals because theres no point.
Right. That much is easy to see. The problem is a matter of trust. You can't trust everyone. And the end-spectator must be protected. Otherwise there is no show. And no show means no sponsorship, and that means no further prize winnings.
|
I'm only talking about deal making, not match fixing;
There's a lot more to it then prize money. Obviously its nice for the player, right then and there. But in the long term there are obviously way more benefits from winning tournaments, including (but not limited to more publicity for possible sponsors (thus more funding) and higher seeds in upcoming tourneys.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
