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On September 02 2011 15:11 Maenander wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 15:08 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 15:00 ArchDC wrote:On September 02 2011 14:53 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 14:49 CoR wrote:
tt1 is the one to blame for me
it sould be good finals and he does 1base carrier and not taking final for real ? that should be never allowed so plz dont allow this kind of match prearangement
@faiyth not match fixing in kind of the normal understanding but still it is. not playing real knowing i get money anyways make not normal result and the match is "fixed" it isn't, results arent decided beforehand, it's like saying IdrA playing on tilt is match fixing because the result of the match shouldn't have gone this way if idra wasn't tilted Fayth, personally I think it is fine between team-mates as the animosity and not helping each other out is bad. However, would you agree that without huge prize money on the line, the games would not be as... impactful? True it is still worth playing for pride, recognition, bragging rights etc., but playing for X amount of $ is just another incentive/push/etc. to bring the most of out a player and the game. I do not think the players play better because X amount of money is involved they do however do whatever they think is the best way to win (such as marine/scv all in which doesn't make for good or entertaining games) so really it is up for debate wether or not the games are better from a fan's point of view when the pressure has been greatly dropped down If that would be the case people would prefer to watch exhibition matches without money involved. They do not.
doesn't matter what people would prefer watching though, he asked if I thought it had impact on the games played, it most likely shouldn't, I've seen kiwi play plenty of very good games in practice, same as in tournaments, no money involved
it really is irrelevent, if anything, too much money is gonna make a player play worse, that makes for worse games
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On September 02 2011 15:03 Maenander wrote:
It is ok to give a share of your money to practice partners, but splitting the price money evenly among team mates attending the same tournament should not be encouraged. It's just against the competitive spirit and comparisons with poker are way off. Spectators don't want to see lazy 1 base carrier rushes or fake games like between Hwasin and Calm.
sure that ppl prefer lame all ins (111 ?) and this kind of stuff @ IEM or GSL...
Sry but I take some cool showmatchs@macro games anydays even if the player doesn't care so much about losing.
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On September 02 2011 14:52 benjammin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 14:49 CoR wrote:
tt1 is the one to blame for me
it sould be good finals and he does 1base carrier and not taking final for real ? that should be never allowed so plz dont allow this kind of match prearangement
@faiyth not match fixing in kind of the normal understanding but still it is. not playing real knowing i get money anyways make not normal result and the match is "fixed" how on earth can you say someone should get 2500 stolen from them for playing a certain way? and according to tt1 it was charge > 2 base carrier, but for the life of me i cant find the games anywhere
Stealing his own prize winnings?
Thats $10k was given to him, not TT1. He did not steal anything.
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Being late to the party I'm sorry if this has already been covered..
Does TT1 have any proof of this alleged arrangement? For all we know the "arrangement" could have been :
TT1: Hey Fenix, we should split the winnings 50/50
Fenix: Yeah maybe I'll think about it.
And thus the "arrangement" was born. Or maybe proof has already been provided, in which case excuse me. Calling a man a cheat, liar, and fraud is pretty serious, like accusing someone of cheating. I'd like to see some actual evidence before making some blanket statement about how much of an asshole someone is.
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On September 02 2011 15:17 Tektos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 14:52 benjammin wrote:On September 02 2011 14:49 CoR wrote:
tt1 is the one to blame for me
it sould be good finals and he does 1base carrier and not taking final for real ? that should be never allowed so plz dont allow this kind of match prearangement
@faiyth not match fixing in kind of the normal understanding but still it is. not playing real knowing i get money anyways make not normal result and the match is "fixed" how on earth can you say someone should get 2500 stolen from them for playing a certain way? and according to tt1 it was charge > 2 base carrier, but for the life of me i cant find the games anywhere Stealing his own prize winnings? Thats $10k was given to him, not TT1. He did not steal anything.
is something unclear here? they had an agreement to split the money, which can be corroborated by xeris. fenix reneged
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On September 02 2011 15:19 Vindicate wrote:
Being late to the party I'm sorry if this has already been covered..
Does TT1 have any proof of this alleged arrangement? For all we know the "arrangement" could have been :
TT1: Hey Fenix, we should split the winnings 50/50
Fenix: Yeah maybe I'll think about it.
And thus the "arrangement" was born. Or maybe proof has already been provided, in which case excuse me. Calling a man a cheat, liar, and fraud is pretty serious, like accusing someone of cheating. I'd like to see some actual evidence before making some blanket statement about how much of an asshole someone is.
None. Its based solely on TT1's word. In most civilized countries this kind of statement is known as defrimation of character is punishable by law
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On September 02 2011 15:20 benjammin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 15:17 Tektos wrote:On September 02 2011 14:52 benjammin wrote:On September 02 2011 14:49 CoR wrote:
tt1 is the one to blame for me
it sould be good finals and he does 1base carrier and not taking final for real ? that should be never allowed so plz dont allow this kind of match prearangement
@faiyth not match fixing in kind of the normal understanding but still it is. not playing real knowing i get money anyways make not normal result and the match is "fixed" how on earth can you say someone should get 2500 stolen from them for playing a certain way? and according to tt1 it was charge > 2 base carrier, but for the life of me i cant find the games anywhere Stealing his own prize winnings? Thats $10k was given to him, not TT1. He did not steal anything. is something unclear here? they had an agreement to split the money, which can be corroborated by xeris. fenix reneged
There is no evidence they had an agreement.
If they did have an agreement, take it to court and get the legal system involved so TT1 can get "his" money back.
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First time in thread so I haven't really been keeping up with what's been said but here's my take on it:
I have absolutely no problem with it. Its not like the players only care about the money and once that is secure are no longer motivated to compete and give a good performance. Players will still be fighting over the titles and reputation and while prize pool is obviously a huge incentive to participate in a tournament, I believe that bragging rights etc. is a pretty big thing to be competing for. I do not know what the financial situation is like of most pros, but if they win the prize money they should be free to do with it whatever they please and if that is splitting it with their teammate/friend then so be it. Basically as long as players are playing to their fullest then financial agreements ought to be negligible.
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On September 02 2011 15:19 Vindicate wrote:
Being late to the party I'm sorry if this has already been covered..
Does TT1 have any proof of this alleged arrangement? For all we know the "arrangement" could have been :
TT1: Hey Fenix, we should split the winnings 50/50
Fenix: Yeah maybe I'll think about it.
And thus the "arrangement" was born. Or maybe proof has already been provided, in which case excuse me. Calling a man a cheat, liar, and fraud is pretty serious, like accusing someone of cheating. I'd like to see some actual evidence before making some blanket statement about how much of an asshole someone is.
I doubt it happened like this, you really think fnatic would have kicked fenix out for something so vague?
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On September 02 2011 15:20 Tektos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 15:20 benjammin wrote:On September 02 2011 15:17 Tektos wrote:On September 02 2011 14:52 benjammin wrote:On September 02 2011 14:49 CoR wrote:
tt1 is the one to blame for me
it sould be good finals and he does 1base carrier and not taking final for real ? that should be never allowed so plz dont allow this kind of match prearangement
@faiyth not match fixing in kind of the normal understanding but still it is. not playing real knowing i get money anyways make not normal result and the match is "fixed" how on earth can you say someone should get 2500 stolen from them for playing a certain way? and according to tt1 it was charge > 2 base carrier, but for the life of me i cant find the games anywhere Stealing his own prize winnings? Thats $10k was given to him, not TT1. He did not steal anything. is something unclear here? they had an agreement to split the money, which can be corroborated by xeris. fenix reneged There is no evidence they had an agreement.
Xeris apparently has an email.
In any case, Fenix was apparently dropped from Fnatic because of his conduct.
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On September 02 2011 15:20 Tektos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 15:20 benjammin wrote:On September 02 2011 15:17 Tektos wrote:On September 02 2011 14:52 benjammin wrote:On September 02 2011 14:49 CoR wrote:
tt1 is the one to blame for me
it sould be good finals and he does 1base carrier and not taking final for real ? that should be never allowed so plz dont allow this kind of match prearangement
@faiyth not match fixing in kind of the normal understanding but still it is. not playing real knowing i get money anyways make not normal result and the match is "fixed" how on earth can you say someone should get 2500 stolen from them for playing a certain way? and according to tt1 it was charge > 2 base carrier, but for the life of me i cant find the games anywhere Stealing his own prize winnings? Thats $10k was given to him, not TT1. He did not steal anything. is something unclear here? they had an agreement to split the money, which can be corroborated by xeris. fenix reneged There is no evidence they had an agreement.
http://www.fnatic.com/news/8331/GameGune-Fenix-1st-TT1-2nd.html
Xeris
Posted Dec 12, 2010 at 19:56
REPLY
They decided to split the prizemoney btw . =D
So 7.5k for each =D
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On September 02 2011 15:21 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 15:20 Tektos wrote:On September 02 2011 15:20 benjammin wrote:On September 02 2011 15:17 Tektos wrote:On September 02 2011 14:52 benjammin wrote:On September 02 2011 14:49 CoR wrote:
tt1 is the one to blame for me
it sould be good finals and he does 1base carrier and not taking final for real ? that should be never allowed so plz dont allow this kind of match prearangement
@faiyth not match fixing in kind of the normal understanding but still it is. not playing real knowing i get money anyways make not normal result and the match is "fixed" how on earth can you say someone should get 2500 stolen from them for playing a certain way? and according to tt1 it was charge > 2 base carrier, but for the life of me i cant find the games anywhere Stealing his own prize winnings? Thats $10k was given to him, not TT1. He did not steal anything. is something unclear here? they had an agreement to split the money, which can be corroborated by xeris. fenix reneged There is no evidence they had an agreement. Xeris apparently has an email. In any case, Fenix was apparently dropped from Fnatic because of his conduct.
Then by all means take him to court. Until it is legally proven that there was an agreement in which Fenix promised money to TT1 I refuse to believe it.
On September 02 2011 15:22 benjammin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 15:20 Tektos wrote:On September 02 2011 15:20 benjammin wrote:On September 02 2011 15:17 Tektos wrote:On September 02 2011 14:52 benjammin wrote:On September 02 2011 14:49 CoR wrote:
tt1 is the one to blame for me
it sould be good finals and he does 1base carrier and not taking final for real ? that should be never allowed so plz dont allow this kind of match prearangement
@faiyth not match fixing in kind of the normal understanding but still it is. not playing real knowing i get money anyways make not normal result and the match is "fixed" how on earth can you say someone should get 2500 stolen from them for playing a certain way? and according to tt1 it was charge > 2 base carrier, but for the life of me i cant find the games anywhere Stealing his own prize winnings? Thats $10k was given to him, not TT1. He did not steal anything. is something unclear here? they had an agreement to split the money, which can be corroborated by xeris. fenix reneged There is no evidence they had an agreement. http://www.fnatic.com/news/8331/GameGune-Fenix-1st-TT1-2nd.htmlXeris Posted Dec 12, 2010 at 19:56 REPLY They decided to split the prizemoney btw . =D So 7.5k for each =D
That is far from evidence.
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On September 02 2011 15:20 Tektos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 15:20 benjammin wrote:On September 02 2011 15:17 Tektos wrote:On September 02 2011 14:52 benjammin wrote:On September 02 2011 14:49 CoR wrote:
tt1 is the one to blame for me
it sould be good finals and he does 1base carrier and not taking final for real ? that should be never allowed so plz dont allow this kind of match prearangement
@faiyth not match fixing in kind of the normal understanding but still it is. not playing real knowing i get money anyways make not normal result and the match is "fixed" how on earth can you say someone should get 2500 stolen from them for playing a certain way? and according to tt1 it was charge > 2 base carrier, but for the life of me i cant find the games anywhere Stealing his own prize winnings? Thats $10k was given to him, not TT1. He did not steal anything. is something unclear here? they had an agreement to split the money, which can be corroborated by xeris. fenix reneged There is no evidence they had an agreement.
Common sense tells us that at least TT1 tried to set it up :p. Whether or not Fenix fully understood is a different story, but there's no reason to make up something like this with no grounds. There's nothing to gain for TT1 and only bad publicity to gain for Fnatic.
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On September 02 2011 15:23 ketomai wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 15:20 Tektos wrote:On September 02 2011 15:20 benjammin wrote:On September 02 2011 15:17 Tektos wrote:On September 02 2011 14:52 benjammin wrote:On September 02 2011 14:49 CoR wrote:
tt1 is the one to blame for me
it sould be good finals and he does 1base carrier and not taking final for real ? that should be never allowed so plz dont allow this kind of match prearangement
@faiyth not match fixing in kind of the normal understanding but still it is. not playing real knowing i get money anyways make not normal result and the match is "fixed" how on earth can you say someone should get 2500 stolen from them for playing a certain way? and according to tt1 it was charge > 2 base carrier, but for the life of me i cant find the games anywhere Stealing his own prize winnings? Thats $10k was given to him, not TT1. He did not steal anything. is something unclear here? they had an agreement to split the money, which can be corroborated by xeris. fenix reneged There is no evidence they had an agreement. Common sense tells us that at least TT1 tried to set it up :p. Whether or not Fenix fully understood is a different story, but there's no reason to make up something like this with no grounds. There's nothing to gain for TT1 and only bad publicity to gain for Fnatic.
Sometimes people do things out of bad blood purely to tarnish another person's opinion.
Not saying this is the case, but it is just as likely a possibility.
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On September 02 2011 15:22 Tektos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 15:21 babylon wrote:On September 02 2011 15:20 Tektos wrote:On September 02 2011 15:20 benjammin wrote:On September 02 2011 15:17 Tektos wrote:On September 02 2011 14:52 benjammin wrote:On September 02 2011 14:49 CoR wrote:
tt1 is the one to blame for me
it sould be good finals and he does 1base carrier and not taking final for real ? that should be never allowed so plz dont allow this kind of match prearangement
@faiyth not match fixing in kind of the normal understanding but still it is. not playing real knowing i get money anyways make not normal result and the match is "fixed" how on earth can you say someone should get 2500 stolen from them for playing a certain way? and according to tt1 it was charge > 2 base carrier, but for the life of me i cant find the games anywhere Stealing his own prize winnings? Thats $10k was given to him, not TT1. He did not steal anything. is something unclear here? they had an agreement to split the money, which can be corroborated by xeris. fenix reneged There is no evidence they had an agreement. Xeris apparently has an email. In any case, Fenix was apparently dropped from Fnatic because of his conduct. Then by all means take him to court. Until it is legally proven that there was an agreement in which Fenix promised money to TT1 I refuse to believe it. Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 15:22 benjammin wrote:On September 02 2011 15:20 Tektos wrote:On September 02 2011 15:20 benjammin wrote:On September 02 2011 15:17 Tektos wrote:On September 02 2011 14:52 benjammin wrote:On September 02 2011 14:49 CoR wrote:
tt1 is the one to blame for me
it sould be good finals and he does 1base carrier and not taking final for real ? that should be never allowed so plz dont allow this kind of match prearangement
@faiyth not match fixing in kind of the normal understanding but still it is. not playing real knowing i get money anyways make not normal result and the match is "fixed" how on earth can you say someone should get 2500 stolen from them for playing a certain way? and according to tt1 it was charge > 2 base carrier, but for the life of me i cant find the games anywhere Stealing his own prize winnings? Thats $10k was given to him, not TT1. He did not steal anything. is something unclear here? they had an agreement to split the money, which can be corroborated by xeris. fenix reneged There is no evidence they had an agreement. http://www.fnatic.com/news/8331/GameGune-Fenix-1st-TT1-2nd.htmlXeris Posted Dec 12, 2010 at 19:56 REPLY They decided to split the prizemoney btw . =D So 7.5k for each =D That is far from evidence.
so you think fnatic's team manager just made that up? and they dropped fenix for no reason?
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My problem with this is there's absolutely no guarantee players will still play to their best with one less thing to lose in a match. You can assume they will because of other things won, such as fame and maybe bonuses, but there's no guarantee. I'm also curious why this isn't done publicly if people feel like it shouldn't be a problem. Why is it done behind the backs of the tournament organizers and fans if it isn't shady?
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On September 02 2011 15:24 Tektos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 15:23 ketomai wrote:On September 02 2011 15:20 Tektos wrote:On September 02 2011 15:20 benjammin wrote:On September 02 2011 15:17 Tektos wrote:On September 02 2011 14:52 benjammin wrote:On September 02 2011 14:49 CoR wrote:
tt1 is the one to blame for me
it sould be good finals and he does 1base carrier and not taking final for real ? that should be never allowed so plz dont allow this kind of match prearangement
@faiyth not match fixing in kind of the normal understanding but still it is. not playing real knowing i get money anyways make not normal result and the match is "fixed" how on earth can you say someone should get 2500 stolen from them for playing a certain way? and according to tt1 it was charge > 2 base carrier, but for the life of me i cant find the games anywhere Stealing his own prize winnings? Thats $10k was given to him, not TT1. He did not steal anything. is something unclear here? they had an agreement to split the money, which can be corroborated by xeris. fenix reneged There is no evidence they had an agreement. Common sense tells us that at least TT1 tried to set it up :p. Whether or not Fenix fully understood is a different story, but there's no reason to make up something like this with no grounds. There's nothing to gain for TT1 and only bad publicity to gain for Fnatic. Sometimes people do things out of bad blood purely to tarnish another person's opinion. Not saying this is the case, but it is just as likely a possibility.
But at the cost of jeopardize his team's reputation and his own career in starcraft 2? I highly doubt it.
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On September 02 2011 15:21 ReignFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 15:19 Vindicate wrote:
Being late to the party I'm sorry if this has already been covered..
Does TT1 have any proof of this alleged arrangement? For all we know the "arrangement" could have been :
TT1: Hey Fenix, we should split the winnings 50/50
Fenix: Yeah maybe I'll think about it.
And thus the "arrangement" was born. Or maybe proof has already been provided, in which case excuse me. Calling a man a cheat, liar, and fraud is pretty serious, like accusing someone of cheating. I'd like to see some actual evidence before making some blanket statement about how much of an asshole someone is. I doubt it happened like this, you really think fnatic would have kicked fenix out for something so vague?
No I don't think it went down like this. I don't know how it went down, so I'm not going to pretend I do. I'm just saying it's very possible that the exact nature of the agreement was nebulous. It's also possible it was very clear. I'm just trying to wrap my head around the possibilities. As I'm not a professional gamer I wouldn't know how these deals work so I'm just curious.
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On September 02 2011 13:04 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 13:00 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 12:59 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 12:57 FawkingGoomba wrote:On September 02 2011 12:55 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 12:54 ReignFayth wrote:read carefully, they didn't just split the prize pool, someone forfeited matches so it was match fixing really It's really easy to blur that line. Not really. As long as every party involved consents, it's not match fixing. Yeah but then some people want in halfway, some people want out, some people dont go through with it and so forth. It gets really ugly. why do you think fenix got kicked out of Fnatic Then great. Fenix is better off without Fnatic anyway and Fnatic can have the rest of there awesome team. Which is who by the way? Rain and who else?
And TT1 bro. The guy who cries on the "ex-teammate joins best team in the planet" thread about ex-said teammate being an "untrustworthy fuck". The guy who proceeded to throw games during a finals in a tournament after attempting to make a deal with the other finalist to split the winnings. Bro, Xeris has nothing to worry about.
On topic however, I have no problem with these whole "Deal-making" thing so long as it doesn't affect the integrity of the tournament and the competition. Which some might say is very hard, or outright impossible. The problem with the whole Fenix-TT1 debacle was TT1 and his throwing or perceived throwing of games. Which doesn't necessarily help the pro Deal-making people at all, as this is just another example of prize splitting indeed having an effect on the competition.
As for the argument that money doesn't really matter, or has an effect on the competition, I like one poster's suggestion of eliminating this "variance" outright. Flatten the prize pool completely for every tournament out there. This will eliminate deals between the players for good, and eliminate variance, and everybody wins! Of course however, I do not think anyone down here in the real world could *possibly* agree with this.
So it's a very interesting situation really. Because I believe competitors making preemptive deals amongst them is more likely to have an effect on the competition than not to have one, I voted it should be illegal.
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On September 02 2011 14:44 PH wrote:
This is exactly match fixing. I don't get why the poll results are so retarded.
I really don't see how people think this concept is match fixing. Doesn't that imply the winner of the game is pre-determined? in the examples brought in this thread BOTH players agreed to split winnings not agreed who should win.
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EPT
