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On August 24 2011 17:13 Belisarius wrote:
As other people have said, it's an interesting viewpoint, but you really have no numbers or substance to back it up. You're just saying "this is what I think happens."
I think you'd be very surprised at the number of people who come in at angles other than what you expect. Friends introducing friends isn't rare, it's actually extremely common, even among players who aren't completely hardcore. And word of mouth can bring people in at any "level" at all, completely screwing up your predictions. I know bronzes who've introduced all their friends to husky and day9 without ever having set foot in TL.
As another example, I went straight to TL from liquipedia while searching build orders before I even owned the game. I went from there to GSL, have never watched Day9 in my life, and only find out about things like "banelings" when they're posted on this forum.
The [random youtube search] -> [husky] -> [TL] -> [day9] -> [GSL] progression is really a bit of a fantasy; at best it's a marginally more likely scenario out of hundreds.
This is what I'm trying to say as well. Interest in sc2 is from many sources, and are just as likely as youtube. I think its futile to focus on one area, rather, its far better to focus on the entire spectrum.
For example, someone at work loves watching day9. His response to do u watch husky is who's that?
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Nah man SC2's growth is absolutely exploding what are you talking about.
For sources. Check the round-up. Mo money every month.
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Just because the viewership numbers for the average Husky cast hasn't went drastically up over the months it does not prove anything. I used to watch those videos before i played and when you get a better knowledge of the game and watch GSL and streamers and actually play  you stop going to these youtube videos. All the views those channels get are from the people just coming in to the sc2 scene.. does not mean they will watch them forever so those viewers are gone.
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On August 24 2011 17:11 DivinitySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2011 16:59 ander wrote:
...How big is big enough? And is this supposed to be some kind of crisis or something?
Do you want starcraft to be on ESPN? Network television? What's wrong with the way it is now? MLG is getting bigger and bigger, and it's SMASHING viewing records. MLG isnt the only one either. I see no reason to panic over the fact that Husky isn't getting over 100,000 views on every single video. Espns sick, pokers on espn, dream big sc2 can be on espn it's up to the community.
If starcraft is ever on ESPN, it'll be a sideshow. It'll be like watching darts, or paintball, or bowling. I specifically remember djWHEAT saying that SC simply would fail on conventional western (ie non korean) television because of things like time constraints, and how it appeals to such a niche audience that it could not open up to such a broad scale. Just look at CGS. That should be reason enough to not want starcraft on TV.
Mainstream television should not be the final goal for esports. Korea is a whole other animal, and that's been analyzed to death. If your view of esports being successful is it being on ESPN, then you're not a fan.
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Husky is an entry-point into SC2 as a game moreso than SC2 as a spectator sport. Can you imagine someone getting into football by watching replays of old games on Youtube? Only a hardcore sports nerd or someone who plays/coaches would be likely to find that very appealing.
Starcraft 2's crowds will grow through word of mouth.
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On August 24 2011 17:25 ander wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2011 17:11 DivinitySC2 wrote:On August 24 2011 16:59 ander wrote:
...How big is big enough? And is this supposed to be some kind of crisis or something?
Do you want starcraft to be on ESPN? Network television? What's wrong with the way it is now? MLG is getting bigger and bigger, and it's SMASHING viewing records. MLG isnt the only one either. I see no reason to panic over the fact that Husky isn't getting over 100,000 views on every single video. Espns sick, pokers on espn, dream big sc2 can be on espn it's up to the community. If starcraft is ever on ESPN, it'll be a sideshow. It'll be like watching darts, or paintball, or bowling. I specifically remember djWHEAT saying that SC simply would fail on conventional television because of things like time constraints, and how it appeals to such a niche audience that it could not open up to such a broad scale. Just look at CGS. That should be reason enough to not want starcraft on TV. ESPN should not be the end all be all. If your view of esports being successful on television, you're not a fan.
Unfortunately SC2 features mass-murder all the time. Mainstream TV in the west isn't ready for that.
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the only thing that really needs to happen for the community to keep growing as rapidly has it has been is that blizzard itself endorses and more actively tries to grow the community, otherwise fan made stuff will keep it going for along time until it fizzles out or we make a breakthrough into mainstream media. Either way its up to the community whether or not we want to keep the growth of sc2 and esports going.
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On August 24 2011 15:28 Clonze wrote:
Very untrue. Husky may control youtube views but Day9 takes people in and helps them get better, which in the end makes them more interested in sc2.
That doesn't matter! At the End its only about how many people you get into SC2.
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That's weird, I had no idea who Husky until I watched the TSL3. I found TL way before I even played my first Starcraft game, probably due to a shout out at a MLG last year. From their I found GOMtv, Day[9]'s daily(knew who he was beforehand) and later, Husky.
All sc2 players I know, know of TL and Day[9], even the GSL. Most of them doesn't know who Husky is. Heck, I even know several non-starcraft fans who know of Day[9]. But maybe my friends are an exception.
FYI, I think word of mouth is the greatest factor of SC2's growth. No one watches Husky's vids if they aren't already interested in SC2.
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And that's why I think big events with a lot of viewers, as well as the barcraft scene, are so important.
If you want to get someone interested in the game, take him to MLG, or a Dreamhack, or IEM, with all the excietment around him he's bound to get interested, he'll get the basics from that, and will probably eager for more, even if he doesn't want to play the game.
The same goes for the Barcraft scene, show pepole that it's "okay" and "popular" to watch SC2 with other pepole, that it's something that a lot of pepole like to do and get the excited about it, through other pepole.
If pepole don't want to play the game, it's okay! There are a lot of pepole who watch sports but never play them, the most important thing is to make the understand that it's exciting!
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I think it might be a good idea for people to go around on the SC2 videos that get big views and write a comment along the lines of: If you want more indepth SC2 content, go to teamliquid(dot)net. Normally it might count as spamming but I'm sure nearly everyone who makes shoutcasts wouldn't mind seeing more people go here.
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A graph with absolutely no supporting statistics, numerical indicators or sources?
While I think your point is arguable if you want to be taken seriously you'd do better with some numbers.
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Your little pyramid assumes a lot and has not anything resembling proof to back it up. I could sit here and give you numbers all day showing growth, just because HDH are not gaining subs does not mean SC is stagnating, or actually anything for that matter.
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On August 24 2011 15:34 Xenocide_Knight wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2011 15:31 DivinitySC2 wrote:On August 24 2011 15:29 Gamegene wrote:
SC2 had a huge growth and it declined.
Duh, that's kind of what happens with games. So you want the community to slowly decline, because thats just what happens to games? Dosent have to be that way, I thought people on this site were enthusiasts of e-sports, the game can still grow, if people view it as a sport. Maybe not everyone here considers sc2 as a necessity to e-sports? Maybe some of us wouldn't care whatsoever if sc2 died out
Why are you even on the sc2 forums?
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On August 24 2011 15:31 DivinitySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2011 15:29 Gamegene wrote:
SC2 had a huge growth and it declined.
Duh, that's kind of what happens with games. So you want the community to slowly decline, because thats just what happens to games? Dosent have to be that way, I thought people on this site were enthusiasts of e-sports, the game can still grow, if people view it as a sport.
The game isn't declining.
The growth of the game has declined, anything else would be impossible. It's still growing.
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the problem is that % of newbs are decreasing and people are quitting the game. We need a new injection of players and blizzard is trying to do that with the free starcraft thingy they just came up with.
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On August 24 2011 17:42 iCCup.Diamond wrote:
Your little pyramid assumes a lot and has not anything resembling proof to back it up. I could sit here and give you numbers all day showing growth, just because HDH are not gaining subs does not mean SC is stagnating, or actually anything for that matter.
Could you? I mean, throw some numbers around. Because. to be honest, SC2 stream viewership numbers on major events have never been particularly impressive to me. IPL Grand Finals get like 30k, IEM Cologne maybe 50k, DreamHack Summer hovered around 70k for most of the tournament. That's really not much, especially if you compare it to the MOBA games, with LoL doubling SC2's numbers at Dreamhack, and the ridiculous amount of viewers for the DotA2 opening tournament.
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This game needs to stabilize and not be in a period of insane growth all the time. That would give the community an unrealistic sense of scale and passion if that were to happen. Right now we are shedding a lot of the flaky players who only picked up SC2 for the hype. Hopefully though, even though that don't play, they are still avid consumers of SC2/ESPORTS related content, which is more than good enough.
The community NEEDS to plateau so more consistent bonds can form, metagame stabilize and average skill level increase. While there maybe few active players, there are many more skilled and dedicated players comprising what is left.
Now don't forget there are still two more hype bumps from Heart of the Swarm and Legacy of the Void. So its still very possible and even likely that the subsequent bumps will serve to increase the base further than Wings of Liberty because old WoL players would return and new players may still be sucked in.
The key here is not necessarily new players, but new consumers of content. That is what needs to happen in order to grow the fan base. You only need to really play the game long enough to understand what if going on and then you can be a constant consumer of tournaments and what not even though to don't play. Which is almost more valuable to the community then someone just hopping around Gold/Plat and otherwise keeping to themselves
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I don't really understand this. It doesn't mean it's declining if some people are more interested in the casual aspect
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I'm not to worried about this theory you are talking about. Despite what is going on for Husky and HD, we still see massive growth in tournaments in pretty much all aspects. Prize pools go up, better player fields, more people attending, more people watching, barcraft is becoming more popular, player streams are still getting huge numbers. Of course the growth of HD and Husky has slowed down. Its easier to go from 0 to 500,000 subscribers than it is to go from 500,000 to 1,000,000.
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EPT
