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On August 25 2011 00:55 Chronald wrote:
If SC2 is to be more popular and wide-spread (which I don't really think is completely necessary) more people need to watch top tier casters, not these shitty ass mom&pop casters who know jack shit about the game. Artosis said it himself, "Everyone and their mother is casting, and if SC2 and eSports is to get big in the West, we need better casters."
The issue is with these 'tier1' casters that you speak of. They suck, and they make people less interested in SC2 because they can't explain the finer and more interesting points of the game. Think about it, in American Football or any other professionally commentated sport there are at least two casters, one doing the Play-by-Play which everyone can understand. Then there is the color commentator, who takes the Play-by-Play and makes it more lively and funny/interesting. Then USUALLY there is the Stats Man, the guy who spits out the pure-nerdy jargon which then gets translated through the other two. THIS GUY is the most important member of the team. This caster is what brings people deeper into the game, this caster makes people WANT to know more about the game, WANT to understand at a higher level. Not just to stay Bronze For Life like Husky.
Dont get me wrong I love Artosis now. But if I started out with a "smart" caster like him I probably would've walked away from SC2. They're awesome if you understand the basics, but if you know very little about the game you just end up feeling stupid.
Very early on in my SC2 hobby I discovered the D9D but I just wasn't interested in it because most of the stuff just went over my head. It wasn't until a few months later when I understood more about the game that I started enjoying watching D9Ds. And now the more analytical stuff is the only reason I continue to stick with SC2; I don't even watch shoutcasters anymore.
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What a sensationalistic title. The SC2 scene has already developed tremendously since beta and it's still growing steadily.
Do note that Husky and HD's active subscribers are mostly casual gamers, many of whom got bored with SC2 after a few months and stopped playing. 80-90% of my friends stopped playing several months ago and moved onto other games. That's just the nature of casual gamers that you can't do anything about. Also, as the SC2 pro scene grew, many of those who used to watch Husky/HD and continued following the scene switched over to watching major tournaments (GSL/NASL/MLG/IEM, etc.) because they are just as entertaining if not more even for the beginners and generally provide much higher quality games. Day9 is sort of an exception, but I think it has a lot to do with him constantly stopping replays to provide in-depth analysis, which usually doesn't happen elsewhere.
Is there any indication those so-called "Tier 1 youtube commentators" not getting more subscribers is leading to the downfall of the SC2 scene? I'm seeing more tournaments with bigger prize money being created each week. The SC2 scene's growth outside of Korea has especially been impressive.
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On August 24 2011 15:41 ger.Electric wrote:
The SC2 Growth Structure, and why its rotting. <- even the title is full fail it looks like u know everything about it but you dont give us numbers about anything just fucking words and nothing else i could write an articel about modern warfare 3 why it is so good or bad just by writing and it wouldnt be much worse then urs omg.
I wouldnt put it so bluntly, but yeah, I agree. Just a picture you call a flow chart and a lot of claims. Making a report like this which seemingly is based on nothing but assumption is about as much worth as a piece of toilet paper.
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Honestly there is no basis for the argument SC2 is rotting. MLG is going from strength to strength. I would have to assume GomTVs subs are way up based on the view counts on the newer videos going up so fast. Husky and Day9s recent tournament was sponsored by Nvidia, and Nvidia would only invest if the RoI was acceptable. Onemoregame.tv is a huge success and growing. More and more teams are securing real sponsorships.... There are simply so many success stories going on right now I cant list them all.
Basically the OP is idle inaccurate specuation imo.
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So, according to the OP, TotalBiscuit should be the messiah or something.
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Wait, the last MLG was the biggest crowd + attendance + stream viewers they have ever had and somehow it's bad and something is wrong with the growth of starcraft 2? Also Barcraft making it in the wallstreet journal about sc2 gamers who take over bars on some nights of the week. I think you and a select few are the only ones who think this way. Every person and tournament up here is helping starcraft 2 esports
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On August 24 2011 17:40 wonderwall wrote:
A graph with absolutely no supporting statistics, numerical indicators or sources?
While I think your point is arguable if you want to be taken seriously you'd do better with some numbers.
And guess what you'd do? You'd then be refuting said numbers. You'd be saying the numbers are wrong. So what's the point? And you're not the expert either. The biggest key as I said before is an attitude shift.
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On August 25 2011 01:05 RoboBob wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 00:55 Chronald wrote:
If SC2 is to be more popular and wide-spread (which I don't really think is completely necessary) more people need to watch top tier casters, not these shitty ass mom&pop casters who know jack shit about the game. Artosis said it himself, "Everyone and their mother is casting, and if SC2 and eSports is to get big in the West, we need better casters."
The issue is with these 'tier1' casters that you speak of. They suck, and they make people less interested in SC2 because they can't explain the finer and more interesting points of the game. Think about it, in American Football or any other professionally commentated sport there are at least two casters, one doing the Play-by-Play which everyone can understand. Then there is the color commentator, who takes the Play-by-Play and makes it more lively and funny/interesting. Then USUALLY there is the Stats Man, the guy who spits out the pure-nerdy jargon which then gets translated through the other two. THIS GUY is the most important member of the team. This caster is what brings people deeper into the game, this caster makes people WANT to know more about the game, WANT to understand at a higher level. Not just to stay Bronze For Life like Husky.
Dont get me wrong I love Artosis now. But if I started out with a "smart" caster like him I probably would've walked away from SC2. They're awesome if you understand the basics, but if you know very little about the game you just end up feeling stupid. Very early on in my SC2 hobby I discovered the D9D but I just wasn't interested in it because most of the stuff just went over my head. It wasn't until a few months later when I understood more about the game that I started enjoying watching D9Ds. And now the more analytical stuff is the only reason I continue to stick with SC2; I don't even watch shoutcasters anymore.
That's an issue with your self-confidence or whatever, not the caster or casting style. The majority of football fans don't know the 'smart' stuff and you don't see them 'feeling stupid' when the announcers say 'smart' stuff. Casters should know what they are talking about.
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I think that your pyramid would be better explained in terms of time as a barrier to entry rather than accessibility or content.
The time that a player is willing to commit to a) playing the game and b) researching/watching it, for whatever reason (work, family, gaming taste, etc), greatly determines the content that he will seek and consume.
It is possible that the community numbers have, for the time being, plateaued. This is because the game does not enjoy the novelty effect anymore and because it is further down its life cycle, which means that it is much harder for new players to catch up with older ones at this point. All these concepts will be familiar to anyone who follows MMOs such as WoW, where population first stabilizes, than spikes again with a new expansion (or even a patch) and then stabilizes again.
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For many people - like me - who got interested in watching the game, the first opportunity to do so was during the beta and it wasnt possible to buy or see the game in any store yet. If you were lucky you had a beta key and could play yourself, but if you were unlucky but still interested in experiencing the game you had to go to Youtube and watch casted games. Thats where Husky and HD (and TB and ...) come in.
Today it is a totally different story. You can actually buy the game in the store, there have been ads on TV (during launch pretty much) and otherwise it is word of mouth which spreads the interest in Starcraft. Nowadays those "mildly interested" are probably brought to watching the game by ludicr... errr large prize pools (bigger is better and more $$$ is good, right?), but those tournaments disappoint sometimes and might not keep the viewers who dont play themselves.
Please remember those two different phases when making any calls ...
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Im not sure why you have GSL and MLG listed as hard to find and require digging. They are advertised on Bnet 2.0
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Interesting read, but someone made a point about "friends" and I think that should definitely be in the pyramid.
Personally, I first got into starcraft 2 because a bunch of my friends played and got me into it. Then, I started watching Husky and the rest is history, though I might not exactly watch Husky that much anymore.
I think you also need to factor in the fact that quite a few of the people who have "moved up" the pyramid might not pay much attention to the so called tier-1 people anymore. Like I watch streams and stuff a lot more, and don't really watch Husky as much anymore, though I am still heavily involved in the SC2 community. So I guess the best logic behind the "stalling" of the tier 1 is that the influx of new players is balanced by the people who have "moved up" the pyramid and no longer spend as much time on tier 1 anymore.
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On August 25 2011 03:02 Tantaburs wrote:
Im not sure why you have GSL and MLG listed as hard to find and require digging. They are advertised on Bnet 2.0
A) He lists MLG as more accessible than TL and just after Youtube. There are plenty of things advertising MLG but you still have to go to a different website and know when the events are.
B) GSL is on at 2/3/4/5 in the morning in the US, only the hardest of hardcore are staying up just to watch GSL.
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The problem is that SC2 is too hardcore of a game, most casuals just go with the flow and only stick with a game thats easy to play and beginner-friendly (like LoL). What remains will be a shrinking core audience that will appreciate quality content more.
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Husky and HD need to be on the bottom tier together, both have minimal game knowledge and low entertainment value.
I would also swap TL and MLG. TL is one of the first things I found but did not immediately go to MLG. Especially due to their tech issues in the earlier seasons.
@AK1Knight, I have watched every GSL game since they lowered the price to $10 a season (sans GSL July due to lack of time) but I have never stayed up at night to watch them live. I tried that once but the hour long intro put me to sleep. You do NOT need to stay up to watch GSL, the VODS are great.
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not all of us use youtube as a way of life.
meaning you dont have to go thru husky to learn about teamliquid, gomtv. speaking of which, gomtv is more accessible than mlg, but ok 
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There are whooole lot of "This is what happens" statements in this thread that aren't ever actually proven. Why do you think more people find Starcraft 2 through these youtube videos than Day9? Why do you think only dedicated people watch MLG or GSL while more casual people are more inclined to watch "more readily accessible" videos?
Myself nor any of my buddies fall into this pyramid. I found day9 through League of Legends' forums and went from there. About half the people I play with started playing SC2 because their friends did and don't even watch anything, but just play team games. I'd love to see some actual fact and science behind this thread, but all I see right now is a bunch of guessing supported by a picture.
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I do not know if your structure is very correct. It is a big oversimplification that often gives a quite distorted image of reality. Your conclusion is based on the premise that the structure is accurate which is why i personally take this with a grain of salt.
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Why do you think most people come through YT when stuff like barcraft or AHGL get coverage in media completely disconnected from gaming in general ? You spent too long making that pretty picture instead of thinking. You have this idea of average SC2 viewer that simply can't ever apply as broadly as you want it to. If the viewership of Husky/HD is stagnating, it's probably because the amount of people who want to watch them is finite, people can find SC2 content suiting their tastes elsewhere or they are simply irrelevant in this day and age. After all their popularity skyrocketed in beta when nobody was promoting SC2.
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for me it was
- buy game. bw with friends was cool
- i need to google these "build orders"
- hmmm what is this thing called liquipedia?
- liquipedia stands from teamLIQUID, oh. www.teamliquid.net
- it has this news about the game, that's funny, what's there to report?!
- oh wow
- who are these koreans and why are they so important in starcraft
- maybe i watch koreans and see whats so special about them then. gsl?
- gsl!
- terran op
- nick plott has a brother? he's like my favourite person in the world!
- so, day9. day9 is way into this game, weird guy. starcraft is a sport, what a joke
- people mention this hydra dude very often... he just plays in the gsl.
- oh, so few foreigners in korea! it's actually idra. like beggining of idiot.
- i didnt know liquid had a team. tlo why u got cheesed? who's this jinro guy...
- artosis stopped being creepy and started to be all insightfull and stuff. this gsl is really, really entertaining.
- even day9 is not weird at all anymore, whats wrong with me these days?
- "sexier than jaedong bigger than leenock dick five foot long"
game over
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EPT
