EPTMVP's Coach on NASL Korean exit - Page 30
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Cyrak
Canada536 Posts
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Heavenly
2172 Posts
As for backing out of signed contracts, since there was apparently no legal repercussions, who cares? Obviously they don't take these sort of things as seriously as other countries. Bashing on them because their culture doesn't emphasize something that yours does is ridiculous. I've read interviews in Korea where they just go "So MC, looks like you're getting pretty fat" and heard stories of Boxer walking around saying people are fat/ugly. Seems like they just do and say what they want to. Does it actually affect anyone here besides NASL if the Koreans choose to back out of the contract and any ethical dilemmas associated with that? People will take any opportunity to judge and tear down others for their actions even when it literally affects nothing in their lives. | ||
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mav451
United States1596 Posts
On August 18 2011 08:56 Heavenly wrote: Lol at everyone complaining at the Korean's demands. Their demands are reasonable and, they are, in fact the rock stars of the Starcraft 2 scene. They are able to ask for these accomodations if they want, they didn't ask for champagne and for the wives/girlfriends of the NASL producers. The money they bring by having more viewers come to the NASL should more than make up for the additional fees they're asking for. It's smart negotiation, deal with it and stop acting like their demands are unreasonable. As for backing out of signed contracts, since there was apparently no legal repercussions, who cares? Obviously they don't take these sort of things as seriously as other countries. Bashing on them because their culture doesn't emphasize something that yours does is ridiculous. I've read interviews in Korea where they just go "So MC, looks like you're getting pretty fat" and heard stories of Boxer walking around saying people are fat/ugly. Seems like they just do and say what they want to. Does it actually affect anyone here besides NASL if the Koreans choose to back out of the contract and any ethical dilemmas associated with that? People will take any opportunity to judge and tear down others for their actions even when it literally affects nothing in their lives. I don't think you understand the significance of backing out of a contract. A contract is a contract. It has never been a question of culture in that regard. Backing out of a contract is a highly unprofessional and has nothing to do with "tearing down others". | ||
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Sixes
Canada1123 Posts
On August 18 2011 09:12 mav451 wrote: I don't think you understand the significance of backing out of a contract. A contract is a contract. It has never been a question of culture in that regard. Backing out of a contract is a highly unprofessional and has nothing to do with "tearing down others". This is very true. The fact is big events can't be organized if the parties involved can't be relied upon to show up. Now I agree with some of the Korean Team's requests but backing out of a contract can have them labelled as unreliable. What that leads to is in the future NASL and other foreign tournaments will have to include stiff penalties in the contracts for people who break them. This in turn will piss off the Korean Teams (a lot like a deposit has) and lead to more problems. The fact is, while some of their requests are perfectly reasonable, the Korean Teams are for the most part showing a lack of maturity and professionalism both in their interactions with each other (recent scandals) and with international partners (NASL, EG for example) and that can only hurt them in the long run. Quite frankly I'd like to see Gom smack some sense into them because Gom is really the only company with both the ability to keep them in line (the threat of kicking people out of GSL/GSTL is a very strong one) and a large interest in doing so (these scandals reflect poorly on the Korean scene as a whole and Gom happens to be the front line). | ||
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Slider954
United States342 Posts
On August 18 2011 08:56 Heavenly wrote: Lol at everyone complaining at the Korean's demands. Their demands are reasonable and, they are, in fact the rock stars of the Starcraft 2 scene. They are able to ask for these accomodations if they want, they didn't ask for champagne and for the wives/girlfriends of the NASL producers. The money they bring by having more viewers come to the NASL should more than make up for the additional fees they're asking for. It's smart negotiation, deal with it and stop acting like their demands are unreasonable. As for backing out of signed contracts, since there was apparently no legal repercussions, who cares? Obviously they don't take these sort of things as seriously as other countries. Bashing on them because their culture doesn't emphasize something that yours does is ridiculous. I've read interviews in Korea where they just go "So MC, looks like you're getting pretty fat" and heard stories of Boxer walking around saying people are fat/ugly. Seems like they just do and say what they want to. Does it actually affect anyone here besides NASL if the Koreans choose to back out of the contract and any ethical dilemmas associated with that? People will take any opportunity to judge and tear down others for their actions even when it literally affects nothing in their lives. This isn't your buddy lending you 5 dollars and saying you can pay it back whenever or running a tab at your local bar. This is big business, with potentially millions of dollars on the line. Contracts are not taken lightly or frivolously by anyone. And I don't know where you got the idea that they don't take stuff like this seriously. Koreans take all this very seriously, otherwise they wouldn't be upset with the original NASL post. Or have introduced Kespa for BW. And yes it actually affects people besides NASL. 1st and foremost the the fans who already bought a season 2 pass. Please stop with the whole, 'you disagreed with me so you must be attacking or tearing me down.' Yeah some of the posts have been the typical herp derp bullshit. But the majority of posts I've seen in this thread have raised valid points on both sides of the argument. There's nothing wrong with spirited discussion on something, at least it shows that people actually care. | ||
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furymonkey
New Zealand1587 Posts
On August 18 2011 09:12 mav451 wrote: I don't think you understand the significance of backing out of a contract. A contract is a contract. It has never been a question of culture in that regard. Backing out of a contract is a highly unprofessional and has nothing to do with "tearing down others". I have no knowledge in this field but perhaps some people do. Even through backing out a contract can result in legal consequence, but isn't it only happened if the contract is deemed fair? I'm sure there are many cases where a party signed a unfair contract (They weren't careful) and later backed out, civil court wouldn't simply judge the case solely on "break of contract". And in this case the Korean teams simply felt that the contracts were "unfair", as advancing to the season final would result in loss of money if they weren't coming out ahead. | ||
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Grobyc
Canada18410 Posts
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Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On August 18 2011 08:43 Cyrak wrote: NASL has no choice in the matter. With the number of tournaments popping up with equal or higher production value it's becoming more and more about which players you have and if there's anything that has been made clear in the past few months (especially after the past two amazing MLGs) it's that if you don't have high level Koreans at your event then you ain't much. NASL does have a choice, and people need to stop pretending that they can't enjoy watching games played when koreans aren't involved. Unless you yourself play at the extreme top level, most people can't even really tell the difference that much between absurdly tip top play and just near tip top play. NASL is filled with grandmasters and pro gamers, they aren't bad players, they just aren't the absolute best int he world. Plenty of foreigners can show great games, and I know I enjoy watching many of them. The Koreans had a shot at what would likely have been a reasonably easy event for them with a massive prize pool and they bailed out, now they'll just have to sit back and watch while someone else collects big. | ||
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furymonkey
New Zealand1587 Posts
On August 18 2011 00:41 Denzil wrote: It's pretty ridiculous from the Korean's side imo. Incontrol summed it up perfectly on SOTG when in brood war in america or whatever you went to tournaments for the chance to cover the costs of traveling. Also how when they all go to MLG it's out of their own pocket. Koreans need to accept that but they won't. I feel this is slightly different situation. Players who goes to MLG still has a whole tournament to play, while these NASL players already played absolute majority of their games and were invited to the final. Being the latter you'd feel more like a guest, while first is just simply given a chance. Bailing out at this point is more damaging than simply not enter the tournament, and it's discouraging to know that after you've done so much there is still a chance to lose money by going to the final. | ||
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
While I do agree the Korea players have a certain amount of cache and "celebrity status," you must surely agree that NASL has a right to limit their expenses, and protect their investment. For instance, how could they possibly cover the cost of travel if ALL the finalists were Korea or European? What if someone from Siberia qualified? Etc. The best solution for the NASL to deliver Korean players is do what MLG does -- Invite a limited amount of Koreans. That way they can cherry-pick whoever they want and give the Korean-loving masses what they want. It totally changes the nature and the spirit of the tournament, and I don't necessarily want to see that happen. But it seems like that's the kind of tournament all the NASL-haters and Korean teams want -- a star-system where celebrity players get free rides. It's a shame that there will be many Korean players that will be denied to opportunity to make a name for themselves in a lucrative foreign market. No one knew who the hell Puma was until his NASL win. It's very short-sighted. I'm willing to bet a lot of Koreans -- some who have backed out -- will see the potential for 'easy money' and attempt to qualify through the Open tournament for the last spot of the final 16. It will be very interesting to see how NASL handles that situation. | ||
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BeefyKnight
United States127 Posts
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furymonkey
New Zealand1587 Posts
On August 18 2011 09:59 Whitewing wrote: NASL does have a choice, and people need to stop pretending that they can't enjoy watching games played when koreans aren't involved. Unless you yourself play at the extreme top level, most people can't even really tell the difference that much between absurdly tip top play and just near tip top play. NASL is filled with grandmasters and pro gamers, they aren't bad players, they just aren't the absolute best int he world. Plenty of foreigners can show great games, and I know I enjoy watching many of them. People aren't pretending. Once you saw multi-front drops/harass with big battles going on while they still keeping up with macro, a back and forth game. You'd know it's a whole different level than someone does a drop while there is a main battle going on, and the side who got dropped failed to recover and result in a inevitable loss, with no back and forth game. You do not need to be a top player to appreciate that level of play, it's the casters job to let the average viewers know. | ||
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Inky87
United States533 Posts
On August 18 2011 09:50 Grobyc wrote: The requests from the coach don't seem too much to ask for in my opinion. I didn't find any major problems with what NASL posted in the thread here on TL either though, so this appears to be a communication problem or one/both of the sides are being dishonest about what actually happened. I think it speaks a lot about the situation that a 3rd party (the MVP coach) is speaking about the NASL instead of the other people coming forward with their own complaints. The actions of the koreans in this case are pretty mind boggling. NASL tried to meet them halfway after trying to find an effective line of communication and when they couldn't, that was that unfortunately. Nobody knows the financial situation with NASL and it's not really any of our business, but I remember when season 1 was starting their goal was to bring the best and have the most games. It must've felt horrible to have to type a statement saying the korean managers wouldn't accept the generous offer on their complaints. There's no way that they didn't give them the best offer they could. My personal opinion is it's just a matter of time before our best foreign guys become round of 16 Code S level players. | ||
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
On August 18 2011 10:13 Inky87 wrote: I think it speaks a lot about the situation that a 3rd party (the MVP coach) is speaking about the NASL instead of the other people coming forward with their own complaints. The actions of the koreans in this case are pretty mind boggling. NASL tried to meet them halfway after trying to find an effective line of communication and when they couldn't, that was that unfortunately. That's is what is shameful. What the hell does MVP have to do with the situation. The teams that backed out just look bad. They have valid grievances, but they know they don't have a leg to stand on, in terms of how it was handled. That's the only reason I can think of that explains why they haven't responded. It also just makes SC2Con's denial of involvement all the more laughable. These teams are OBVIOUSLY colluding with each other. | ||
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manawah
123 Posts
To call another organization amateurish while the professional teams in their group have uncontracted players, coaches that disregard the same avenue of "official channels" and run to the media about players and worst of all breach contracts.... pot.. kettle.. black?? | ||
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Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On August 18 2011 10:12 furymonkey wrote: People aren't pretending. Once you saw multi-front drops/harass with big battles going on while they still keeping up with macro, a back and forth game. You'd know it's a whole different level than someone does a drop while there is a main battle going on, and the side who got dropped failed to recover and result in a inevitable loss, with no back and forth game. You do not need to be a top player to appreciate that level of play, it's the casters job to let the average viewers know. The fact that you need a caster to tell you the difference shows that the games can be quite fun to watch. You can have fun watching great players play, it doesn't have to be Nestea vs. MVP/MC every game to be enjoyable. I know my favorite match of SC2 ever that I watched was TLO(R) vs. Liquid`Nazgul(P) during the beta, game 2 on metalopolis, and it was certainly not best player in the world quality play. | ||
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seoul_kiM
United States545 Posts
Many of you say that fans care about the broadcast and it's not the accommodation of the players but if you think about it if the players don't want to play (as in this case) then NASL won't be broadcasting anything good. Basically just second-rate players playing against each other. | ||
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NEOtheONE
United States2233 Posts
"Finally, because I’m answering what NASL should change in order for MVP team to participate, NASL should take better care of the players, including pick up from the airport, accomodations, and scheduling, instead of focusing only on the broadcast. If NASL want the tournament to grow, the players’ convenience should be the first priority in order to create great matches so that the fans will become enthusiastic." This seems fair and all, what I am wondering though is do the Koreans offer these things to the Europeans and Americans when they come over for the GSL? If they do, then asking and expecting this is fair, if they do not extend these courtesies to foreigners, then they should not expect them in return. Also, how do the European tournaments handle these things? If they also extend courtesies such as these, then NASL should try make accommodations. | ||
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furymonkey
New Zealand1587 Posts
On August 18 2011 10:36 NEOtheONE wrote: This seems fair and all, what I am wondering though is do the Koreans offer these things to the Europeans and Americans when they come over for the GSL? If they do, then asking and expecting this is fair, if they do not extend these courtesies to foreigners, then they should not expect them in return. Also, how do the European tournaments handle these things? If they also extend courtesies such as these, then NASL should try make accommodations. Previous posts suggested that GSL do offer these if they came through the MLG exchange program. John the translator or Torch will pick you up at the airport. They have free accommodation for all the foreign GSL players, or GSL hopefuls, people who came on their own but provided a free place to stay to had a go at the GSL qualifier. However only the MLG exchange program individual were provided travel cost. It is fair as MLG does the same when they invite someone, as oppose to people who sign up by themself. And for the NASL finalist I just felt they more of a guest, and shall be treated as one, after all they weren't there for qualifier but the season finals. However it appears that NASL do know this, there are just some disagreement in the details. | ||
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RonNation
United States385 Posts
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