EPTMVP's Coach on NASL Korean exit - Page 29
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Yuriegh
United States327 Posts
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JimSocks
United States968 Posts
Also, maybe have scale down production abit. instead of a real studio, they could just do it in a nice basement with 1080p webcams and snowball mics for the regular season. The shuttle bus thing, get that chaperone to babysit and get players on time I | ||
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Vendor
Canada115 Posts
The travel stipends were more then enough to cover on top of a very good chance to make a ton of money. Sure there is risk, it's sort of the nature with sports in general not everything is a for sure payout. Instead they signed the contracts and then tried to play hardball, shows a deep lack of respect. | ||
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vnlegend
United States1389 Posts
They don't even know who they're dealing with, and now they're playing the "we were ignorant" card. | ||
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Malpraktis
United States2 Posts
I think Korea just doesn't understand that E-Sports or more specifically, SC2, isn't as popular here as it is in Korea. If they were looking at the long term, they would realize that their participation in tournaments in America is helping expand the interest in E-sports, which in the end benefits them as the best group out there. Help us out here, make it popular here, you're really just helping yourselves in the end. Provide cost effective suggestions/solutions. We want the Koreans involved, really, we do. I do agree though that alot of the NASL finals was very amateur compared to the GSL. Some Suggestions: - Replaying the whole season to recap their matchups felt like filler, and was cool for the first matchup of how they made it to the playoffs, but hurt after repeating the same information every single time. - Saying the names of the combatants every single match to ask for cheers felt forced maybe just the first matchup? - Expand more on the player's styles and common strategies and the deep history of them vs. other competitors. Explain the mentor teacher relationship, or this person is his idol, or some of the competitive hate between them. Generate drama. - Expand on the players themselves to create a connection between them and the audience, show where and how they live, their extensive training and skill with the game, their likes/dislikes, other hobbies or quirky talents. The average person knows very little to differentiate them. Why should I cheer for boxer or mvp or sen etc. when I dont know them aside of they play Zerg/Terran/Protoss? - Brainstorm ways to get girls interested. There were like 5 in the crowd total and they all look like they were dragged there. Blizzcon has thousands who like to dress up and get attention. More girls also = more guys, cause sex sells. - Explain the Korean/Asian starcraft style vs. the Americans / Europeans, offer opinions on why they are so superior. - Make the semis and finals best of seven sooner to fill more time. - Do more than just 1v1s. Throw in a few fun matches; a FFA or an air only battle or a clan battle or some of the custom maps like pros at tower defense/micro tournament/etc. something inbetween the real matches. There shouldn't be as much downtime. | ||
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amazingoopah
United States1925 Posts
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Soma.bokforlag
Sweden448 Posts
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Starcraft2Radio
United States132 Posts
American Starcraft fans at these events have been nothing short of absolutely excellent, especially when it comes to cheering on Koreans at these events. As far as I understand, the Koreans either paid very little or nothing to attend NASL (at least when the prize payouts were also considered), the audience was great, etc. Then when you turn around and say "no thanks" to the same crowd that supported you so well, even though you've never even played here, it's going to make those same fans be like "wait, this is what we were cheering for?" It kinda seems like the classic instance of once you give a little, the person receiving all of a sudden wants more and more, beyond the point of reason, just to see how much they can get. It might be normal in Korea to do this cutthroat style of business, but come on, this was a very laid back league with a tremendous prize pool and tremendous fan support. You really think turning your back on it is going to help, over travel stipends or something ridiculous that these teams can easily afford a thousand times over? Come on now. | ||
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Auross
Brazil104 Posts
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wolverinehokie
United States12 Posts
It should not have been that hard to make sure the Koreans were provided for at the championship. NASL says they need the deposit because of potential penalties (at least I think that's their reason), but in the first season all the Koreans showed they were willing to commit to being there on time. Removing the deposit seems reasonable to me. With the Koreans gone, only 3/8 of last season's top 8 are returning, with the highest placed person being Sen at 4th place. The NASL already had many boring/pointless matches with the random crappy people that were added to make it 50 people without losing the Koreans. Now pretty much everyone match is going to be pointless. With all the other tournaments out there, NASL needs the Koreans more than the Koreans need the NASL. It was stupid not to treat them better. | ||
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forgottendreams
United States1771 Posts
Yeah...classy. | ||
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DPK
Canada487 Posts
On August 18 2011 03:41 Auross wrote: KOrean team's are starting to create a bad image with all these special treatment nonsence. Korean players are treated very well compared to all other players, and yet they feel is their right to demand travel expenses, transportation and so much more. Foreigner tournaments shouldn't be spending more money with the koreans than with everyone else. Once our scene grows enough, they will wnat to participate, with or without expenses covered. This. Korean teams don't seem to understand how esport is working outside of their country. Since esport exist, i don't think i ever saw so many demands needed to be fulfilled to just participate in a tournament. I mean, how many NA or EU team asked to be pick up from the airport when they go to a tournament and even ask the host to pay for their travel expenses? From what i know, it never happen because its the duty of the teams/sponsors to be organized/willing to pay and not just hope that their host will take care of everything for them. Instead of hoping for the best, they should just ask help or advice from the host on everything they have a problem with. I agree with the poor operation of the NASL but i mean what the koreans were expected?? Not sure, but i think they (NASL production crew) never had any background in making such a huge event so its totally normal that this event was more "amateurish" than the events like IEM or MLG who has been there a long time. IMO, koreans should have known this and take it into account before accepting to participate. I don't think NASL is trying to cover up their mistakes and blame the korean teams. They only didn't like them to withdraw from NASL right before the start of season 2 and asked to fulfilled so many demands when korean teams knew that those demands were not part of the contract for season 1. Its not our problems if korean teams have low level sponsorship that aren't even able to help teams pay their travel expenses, deposit cost, hotel and such. In NA and EU this is how thing work in esport and i don't want events to start paying for all those crap for korean just because their are the top of the top for sc2. They should wake up and get a clue on how esport is handle outside of their country. | ||
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DyEnasTy
United States3714 Posts
On August 18 2011 01:35 AlBundy wrote: I have lost a lot of respect for the Americans with their lack of respect for the Koreans. See what I did there? Making generalizations is a very dangerous game. People die everyday because of generalizations. My mind was spinning trying to understand some thread of legit logic in your post. Then I read you ID and it all made sense. See what I did there? | ||
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babylon
8765 Posts
On August 18 2011 03:52 wolverinehokie wrote: I think it sounds like the Koreans have very legitimate complaints. Obviously you can argue the Koreans should put up with the problems because of the chance at winning money and getting more sponsors, but at the same time NASL is nothing without the Koreans. It doesn't even have any of the top Europeans in it. Let's face it, it needs the Koreans in order to be a legitimate league. It should not have been that hard to make sure the Koreans were provided for at the championship. NASL says they need the deposit because of potential penalties (at least I think that's their reason), but in the first season all the Koreans showed they were willing to commit to being there on time. Removing the deposit seems reasonable to me. With the Koreans gone, only 3/8 of last season's top 8 are returning, with the highest placed person being Sen at 4th place. The NASL already had many boring/pointless matches with the random crappy people that were added to make it 50 people without losing the Koreans. Now pretty much everyone match is going to be pointless. With all the other tournaments out there, NASL needs the Koreans more than the Koreans need the NASL. It was stupid not to treat them better. Actually, I don't think it'll harm NASL that much. I'd guess that most viewers of NASL are casual viewers at best anyways and will tune in just because it's on at a reasonable hour during the day. Oh well. Puma's probably very happy about these developments. Kid's gonna make major money with all his competitors gone. He only has to contend with Sen and Rain, basically, unless I'm forgetting someone else. | ||
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Lawliet
United States70 Posts
Remember, SC2 teams in Korea have weak financial support. The game just isn't popular enough yet. Korean teams are investing a lot of resource to compete in foreign leagues. | ||
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Dantat
170 Posts
On August 18 2011 03:41 Auross wrote: KOrean team's are starting to create a bad image with all these special treatment nonsence. Korean players are treated very well compared to all other players, and yet they feel is their right to demand travel expenses, transportation and so much more. Foreigner tournaments shouldn't be spending more money with the koreans than with everyone else. Once our scene grows enough, they will wnat to participate, with or without expenses covered. The Koreans don't seem to have a problem going to MLG or other well run tournaments. Anyways, I think you're wrong about our scene being able to grow without Koreans. They bring a lot of talent and skill into the tournaments, and thus attracts many more viewers. A recent poll asking weather or not people will watch NASL with the Koreans gone shows that a vast majority of people will watch less, or none of NASL. I am part of that majority, the level of play is just so much lower with most foreigners. The NASL will just be a gigantic tournament with a lot of low tier pros. The scene (or especially NASL) will not grow without the Koreans, it will likely decline. | ||
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Zombie_Velociraptor
274 Posts
Also, what is this talk about signed contracts for NASL season 2, anyway? Were there even actual contracts, or did they just play in the online qualifiers and suddenly that counts as legally binding contractual agreement? | ||
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Slider954
United States342 Posts
On August 18 2011 07:48 Zombie_Velociraptor wrote: How would you feel if you were participating in a Chinese tournament, and had to figure out your own transportation / lodgings without speaking a word of Mandarin? It's not like the Korean players have great English, or can afford to bring a translator along. Also, what is this talk about signed contracts for NASL season 2, anyway? Were there even actual contracts, or did they just play in the online qualifiers and suddenly that counts as legally binding contractual agreement? They played the qualifiers and then signed contracts for season 2, as in actual paper, legally binding contracts. | ||
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Meatnose
United States141 Posts
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kappadevin
United States284 Posts
If you do this, as long as the prize for 16th place is higher than $1500, which may require some prize pool dispersion changes, then the Koreans will have a net gain from attending no matter what. Also, some of the complaints about the finals taking so long with so few games can also be remedied by making it a double elimination, so that there are much more games to fill the long three day finals. This also makes it so no one feels like their trip was wasted on a single best of 3 (which I still think sucks for people in code A, but this is an improvement you can make over the GSL) The deposit topic is something that's a bit harder to remedy. I can honestly see both sides of this argument, because while $500 isn't a lot compared to what you could win, it is a lot to front at the start of a tournament like this, especially when that $500 could be refunded as far as two months after the finals ends, which is pretty unreasonable. I suppose the question here is how do you make sure players attend their games without charging a deposit. An idea could be adding incentives to players to show up on time. Like say $25 or some arbitrary number for players showing up on time. Rather than penalize them for not showing up, reward them for showing up. If they don't show up, then they've sacrificed a potential $250 they would have gotten just for playing through the 10 games. This isn't probably the best solution, because spread out over 50 players, you'd end up paying $12,500 just for them to show up, but if having Koreans in the league gives you an extra 500 subscribers, you'd break even again, and I suspect they would bring more than just 500. | ||
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