Designated Balance Discussion Thread - Page 418

On March 31 2013 08:56 Innovation wrote:
Show nested quote +


That's interesting because I constantly see no name terrans destroying zergs they shouldn't even be close to beating. I just spent the last two hours watching Stephano get destroyed by Demuslim over and over and over again. Stephano never even got close to winning in any of the games. Nothing against Demuslim but we all know he shouldn't be able to yawn his way to victory 7-0 over Stephano.

You have to be delusional not to realize that Terran is OP vs Zerg right now. I'd say easily even more OP than broodlord/infestor pre-nerf.

stephano also never makes muta, ever, even though the meta calls for muta atm

On March 31 2013 12:59 Emzeeshady wrote:
I would take the balance whining about Terran with a grain of salt. Terrans have been balance whining for so long now that it feels nice to be on the other side for once.

On March 31 2013 03:28 GaNgStaRR.ElV wrote:And the fact that you don't realize that 1. everyone technically "A Moves" across the map. It's about how you get there.

On March 31 2013 14:19 aksfjh wrote:
Medivacs and mines move at different speeds, as well as medivacs moving over cliffs and terrain when pathing. Just sayin'.

On March 31 2013 12:42 aksfjh wrote:

That's what I'm trying to say. There's nothing pointing to Terrans needing to be nerfed, nor any other race right now. However, we have 3/4 of TL posting like speedvacs are going to be nerfed already, as if there are clear signs that they break all matchups. We should be playing the "wait and see" game for ALL races and situations for right now.

On March 31 2013 04:04 c0sm0naut wrote:
would like to hear people's thoughts on early game TvP from both sides

a couple of things have changed that are making 1 rax FE very difficult for me as a terran and i'm starting to think that this build (korean 15 orbital 16 CC) will almost always make u behind from damage taken now.

in WOL the biggest threat as every terran knows from a 1 base protoss was the blink stalkers obs build, and on certain maps, the immortal all in. in hots, many things have changed including:
1. now they can use starting hallucination spell to fake immortal busts
2. proxy oracles can come so quickly that an ebay at 5 min is becoming standard...
3. all all ins they do now have timewarp mixed in, its really good to cast near the bunkers as you bust through, because the bio not in the bunkers takes longer to get into range and on most maps if you cast 2 timewarps, no matter what if terran tries to chase down the ramp, he cannot catch up because time warp covers the whole ramp. Add it to blink all in by casting it on terran's ramp and then by the time i'm back into my main base to defend, my stim has already been sniped and its GG.
4. dark templars now cost less so you can use that 100 gas to get a robotics, +1 upgrade whatever.
5. voidrays do bonus dmg vs bunkers and with their boost ability can shred it in seconds

so, if i see 2 gas from protoss, even if it's 2 probes in each gas, every game i feel forced to :
1. 1 bunker at least and it needs to be done at 5:00
2. have 4 marines in the main base for MSC poke, do not transfer scvs to natural because of zealot stalker + msc in the back poke
3. have two missile turrets by 5:30-5:45, one in each mineral line
4. add another missile turret at the front near my bunker for DTs/detect hallucinations
5. not ever leave my base before stim, +1 and 2 medivacs are about to finish

i find this really unfair, when my only viable harass tool now is speed drop mines, which are random in effectiveness against normal players, and ineffective against top level players. everything is beaten by the photon overcharge and adding just regular cannons to a small gate + collosus army

On March 31 2013 12:37 Emzeeshady wrote:

Ok, but you will need better proof then that. If what you are saying is true then just wait for the next GSL and let it play out. So far all legitimate results point the other way but the sample size is indeed small.

On March 31 2013 12:42 aksfjh wrote:

That's what I'm trying to say. There's nothing pointing to Terrans needing to be nerfed, nor any other race right now. However, we have 3/4 of TL posting like speedvacs are going to be nerfed already, as if there are clear signs that they break all matchups. We should be playing the "wait and see" game for ALL races and situations for right now.

On March 31 2013 17:26 Rabiator wrote:

The one reason I would give for this turbo boost discussion is that this boost is a bad design from the start just like many others and that they are making low league play rather terrible. Lower league = slower reaction, less map awareness and generally worse multitasking capability ... but those people do want to have fun playing the game and it is a bad thing to being forced to have a laundry list of "Zerg dont do Baneling busts, Protoss dont do warp in and Forcefield ramp-blockage and Terrans dont do bunker rushes and turbo boost drops" when you are playing for fun with your friends.

Only looking at the top end of the food chain is a terrible way to balance and design a game, because that will slowly wither the bottom end. Professionals will always be able to handle faster games because that is what they are training all day long, but this is a GAME and it is supposed to be about HAVING FUN. Thus it needs to be a bit "blunt" in its design with some "mechanical resistance" (forced unit spreading while moving and 12 unit selection limit) for the pros to work against. They can manage it usually. Too much speed and too many buttons to click just overwhelm the majority of mediocre and worse players and that is bad. Simplicity was part of the appeal of BW compared to Total Annihlation for example ...

Thus people should stop comparing this pro and that pro with each other ... they dont really matter for game design ... and rather try to think about how the lower end of the ladder will think about new stuff.